Masked gunman kills 14 at Batman premiere in Denver

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:37 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

gun ban in US=logistically impossible.

Explain plz

Sure, ban guns. Unarmed slaves are the best.

Guy was drugged and programmed by CIA.

What kind of dirty motherfucker shoots a baby? Motherfucker.

Just let them all kill each other, it will make the oil last longer.

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:39 PM, Npoess said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:37 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

gun ban in US=logistically impossible.

 

Explain plz

the question of gun control in the United States is not a moral one, but one of economic and logistical rationality. How many people in the United States already own firearms? In addition to this, how many years has the constitution stipulated the right to bear arms? How many years has this phrase been accepted to mean keeping firearms in your household?

How many American communities still engage in hunting? How big are the businesses that manufacture guns for public consumption in the United States?

How do we enforce this? Do we forcibly confiscate guns from those communities that refuse to do so? This will almost assuredly result on violence that will further polarize American partisan society.

Will it require a new arm of police hiring to go on rounds to ensure there are no guns coming in from outside? What will be the cost of needing more policework to prevent any and all gun trafficking? What about people that home-manufacture guns? (I have personally visited a community in West Virginia where every family has the means to construct their own weapons). We cannot police the gun trafficking that is already illegal here, how can we police the guns that have been in families for generations, and furthermore, how can we prevent the artisans from recreating their own black-market guns? Our borders are gigantic on both sides.

I need pretty sufficient answers for every question here in order to say a gun ban in the United States is a feasible idea.

edit: also, before what I think is going to happen happens, let me be crystal clear: I am NOT arguing about whether owning a gun is good or bad.

From a conversation I just had with Mr. Salads, who lives in the suburbs of Denver:

"Maybe we will begin to realize that our fascination, our preoccupation, and our love affair with terrorists and torture really doesn't need a pornographic outlet via popular film anymore and really never needed it in the first place.

We have plenty enough terrorists and psychopaths in our fucking midst and they ain't Al Qaeda. lol. Do you hear me, Frank fucking Miller???"

Then again, perhaps it was the much sought after cameo from the Joker.

Too soon?

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:48 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:39 PM, Npoess said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:37 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

gun ban in US=logistically impossible.

 

Explain plz

 

the question of gun control in the United States is not a moral one, but one of economic and logistical rationality. How many people in the United States already own firearms? In addition to this, how many years has the constitution stipulated the right to bear arms? How many years has this phrase been accepted to mean keeping firearms in your household?

 

How many American communities still engage in hunting? How big are the businesses that manufacture guns for public consumption in the United States?

 

How do we enforce this? Do we forcibly confiscate guns from those communities that refuse to do so? This will almost assuredly result on violence that will further polarize American partisan society.

 

Will it require a new arm of police hiring to go on rounds to ensure there are no guns coming in from outside? What will be the cost of needing more policework to prevent any and all gun trafficking? What about people that home-manufacture guns? (I have personally visited a community in West Virginia where every family has the means to construct their own weapons). We cannot police the gun trafficking that is already illegal here, how can we police the guns that have been in families for generations, and furthermore, how can we prevent the artisans from recreating their own black-market guns? Our borders are gigantic on both sides.

 

I need pretty sufficient answers for every question here in order to say a gun ban in the United States is a feasible idea.

 

edit: also, before what I think is going to happen happens, let me be crystal clear: I am NOT arguing about whether owning a gun is good or bad.

So basically, the country's fucked?

http://blogs.csoonline.com/physical-security/2271/fbi-could-raise-threat-level-after-massacre-during-dark-night-rises-showing

i wonder if the tsa is going to start searches at movie theaters now...

I like this quote:

  Quote

If you combine the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia, you'll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year. They had 112. Do you think it's because Americans are more homicidal by nature? Or do you think it's because those guys have gun control laws?"

If you give weapons to everybody you are basically putting people into the possibility to switch their life off with a push of a button if they feel like it. Some of them do it then

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:56 PM, Roksen Creek said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:48 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:39 PM, Npoess said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:37 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

gun ban in US=logistically impossible.

 

Explain plz

 

the question of gun control in the United States is not a moral one, but one of economic and logistical rationality. How many people in the United States already own firearms? In addition to this, how many years has the constitution stipulated the right to bear arms? How many years has this phrase been accepted to mean keeping firearms in your household?

 

How many American communities still engage in hunting? How big are the businesses that manufacture guns for public consumption in the United States?

 

How do we enforce this? Do we forcibly confiscate guns from those communities that refuse to do so? This will almost assuredly result on violence that will further polarize American partisan society.

 

Will it require a new arm of police hiring to go on rounds to ensure there are no guns coming in from outside? What will be the cost of needing more policework to prevent any and all gun trafficking? What about people that home-manufacture guns? (I have personally visited a community in West Virginia where every family has the means to construct their own weapons). We cannot police the gun trafficking that is already illegal here, how can we police the guns that have been in families for generations, and furthermore, how can we prevent the artisans from recreating their own black-market guns? Our borders are gigantic on both sides.

 

I need pretty sufficient answers for every question here in order to say a gun ban in the United States is a feasible idea.

 

edit: also, before what I think is going to happen happens, let me be crystal clear: I am NOT arguing about whether owning a gun is good or bad.

 

So basically, the country's fucked?

yeah, just like the uk is fucked because chavs like to stab people to death with knives.

We used to have more lax gun control in Belgium. A few years ago some mad man shot some people and I think we have required registration now. Unregistered weapons became illegal and a lot of weapons were destroyed. I am a proponent over strong gun control laws like in countries like Iceland or Denmark where there has to be a reason (hunting or sports) for you to own the gun. I'd rather live in a world with less people carrying guns.

It may not prevent massacres like these. But it seems your lax gun control laws aren't preventing them either...

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:59 PM, Hoodie said:

yeah, just like the uk is fucked because chavs like to stab people to death with knives.

It's very rare, especially outside London.

I'm not having a go at the US, I'm just trying to make sense of it.

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:59 PM, Hoodie said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:56 PM, Roksen Creek said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:48 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:39 PM, Npoess said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:37 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

gun ban in US=logistically impossible.

 

Explain plz

 

the question of gun control in the United States is not a moral one, but one of economic and logistical rationality. How many people in the United States already own firearms? In addition to this, how many years has the constitution stipulated the right to bear arms? How many years has this phrase been accepted to mean keeping firearms in your household?

 

How many American communities still engage in hunting? How big are the businesses that manufacture guns for public consumption in the United States?

 

How do we enforce this? Do we forcibly confiscate guns from those communities that refuse to do so? This will almost assuredly result on violence that will further polarize American partisan society.

 

Will it require a new arm of police hiring to go on rounds to ensure there are no guns coming in from outside? What will be the cost of needing more policework to prevent any and all gun trafficking? What about people that home-manufacture guns? (I have personally visited a community in West Virginia where every family has the means to construct their own weapons). We cannot police the gun trafficking that is already illegal here, how can we police the guns that have been in families for generations, and furthermore, how can we prevent the artisans from recreating their own black-market guns? Our borders are gigantic on both sides.

 

I need pretty sufficient answers for every question here in order to say a gun ban in the United States is a feasible idea.

 

edit: also, before what I think is going to happen happens, let me be crystal clear: I am NOT arguing about whether owning a gun is good or bad.

 

So basically, the country's fucked?

 

yeah, just like the uk is fucked because chavs like to stab people to death with knives.

Im not saying its fucked, Im saying the situation is complex enough to warrant a realistic look into the effects this policy would have on the people living under it, NOT BECAUSE OF THE MORALITY OF THE DECISION (sorry, just want to make sure we aren't arguing the whole guns kill people nonsense useless argument) but because of the economic costs, the long traditional interpretation of the constitution embedded in gun owner's minds, etc. etc. Its a difficult question, and I don't necessarily think an all-out nationwide ban is going to "make things better", at least not without serious ramifications for the next few decades.

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:57 PM, o00o said:

I like this quote:

 

  Quote

If you combine the populations of Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia, you'll get a population roughly the size of the United States. We had 32,000 gun deaths last year. They had 112. Do you think it's because Americans are more homicidal by nature? Or do you think it's because those guys have gun control laws?"

 

If you give weapons to everybody you are basically putting people into the possibility to switch their life off with a push of a button if they feel like it. Some of them do it then

moore's comparison in bowling for columbine is better:

  Quote

Moore attempts to contrast this with the attitude prevailing in Canada, where (he states) gun ownership is at similar levels to the U.S. He illustrates his thesis by visiting neighborhoods in Canada near the Canada-U.S. border, where he finds front doors unlocked and much less concern over crime and security.

i haven't checked this claim about similar gun ownership pattern but in case he's right, then yes, usa is just more homicidal (definitely not "by nature" though).

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:48 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:39 PM, Npoess said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:37 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

gun ban in US=logistically impossible.

 

Explain plz

 

the question of gun control in the United States is not a moral one, but one of economic and logistical rationality. How many people in the United States already own firearms? In addition to this, how many years has the constitution stipulated the right to bear arms? How many years has this phrase been accepted to mean keeping firearms in your household?

 

How many American communities still engage in hunting? How big are the businesses that manufacture guns for public consumption in the United States?

 

How do we enforce this? Do we forcibly confiscate guns from those communities that refuse to do so? This will almost assuredly result on violence that will further polarize American partisan society.

 

Will it require a new arm of police hiring to go on rounds to ensure there are no guns coming in from outside? What will be the cost of needing more policework to prevent any and all gun trafficking? What about people that home-manufacture guns? (I have personally visited a community in West Virginia where every family has the means to construct their own weapons). We cannot police the gun trafficking that is already illegal here, how can we police the guns that have been in families for generations, and furthermore, how can we prevent the artisans from recreating their own black-market guns? Our borders are gigantic on both sides.

 

I need pretty sufficient answers for every question here in order to say a gun ban in the United States is a feasible idea.

 

edit: also, before what I think is going to happen happens, let me be crystal clear: I am NOT arguing about whether owning a gun is good or bad.

Good points.. It's a cultural thing, I know. But it's just bizarre to me that it's so widely morally accepted in the states. Of course it's not everybody, but from what I've heard from friends who been to the states, a large minority just seems to be absolutely gun-nuts. I'm not generalizing, but I just have a hard time understanding why.

  On 7/20/2012 at 4:09 PM, Npoess said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:48 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:39 PM, Npoess said:

  On 7/20/2012 at 3:37 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

gun ban in US=logistically impossible.

 

Explain plz

 

the question of gun control in the United States is not a moral one, but one of economic and logistical rationality. How many people in the United States already own firearms? In addition to this, how many years has the constitution stipulated the right to bear arms? How many years has this phrase been accepted to mean keeping firearms in your household?

 

How many American communities still engage in hunting? How big are the businesses that manufacture guns for public consumption in the United States?

 

How do we enforce this? Do we forcibly confiscate guns from those communities that refuse to do so? This will almost assuredly result on violence that will further polarize American partisan society.

 

Will it require a new arm of police hiring to go on rounds to ensure there are no guns coming in from outside? What will be the cost of needing more policework to prevent any and all gun trafficking? What about people that home-manufacture guns? (I have personally visited a community in West Virginia where every family has the means to construct their own weapons). We cannot police the gun trafficking that is already illegal here, how can we police the guns that have been in families for generations, and furthermore, how can we prevent the artisans from recreating their own black-market guns? Our borders are gigantic on both sides.

 

I need pretty sufficient answers for every question here in order to say a gun ban in the United States is a feasible idea.

 

edit: also, before what I think is going to happen happens, let me be crystal clear: I am NOT arguing about whether owning a gun is good or bad.

 

Good points.. It's a cultural thing, I know. But it's just bizarre to me that it's so widely morally accepted in the states. Of course it's not everybody, but from what I've heard from friends who been to the states, a large minority just seems to be absolutely gun-nuts. I'm not generalizing, but I just have a hard time understanding why.

Yeah, I mean its good to still recognize that its a minority who are gun nuts, but there is a majority who accept the current viewpoint on owning guns, moderates, even some liberals.

The United States is a very unique example AFAIK, where the right to own a gun has been incorporated into the whole "America is apple pie and baseball" cultural background.

I can tell you from personal background, that Im sort of on the fence about gun ownership, as I can see the pros and cons of both sides...but heres the interesting part

As the US Constitution stipulates the right to bear arms, and having been successively interpreted as having the right to own arms, it balls itself up into the validity of the rest of the Constitution...so if we "attack" one, we risk "attacking" the whole thing (ie. the "end of the Constitution=the end of democracy". Yeah, its a pretty risky slippery slope argument, and Im not saying its necessarily right, but Americans by and large have been culturally attuned to this line of thinking.

I mean, think about it this way. AFAIK (and feel free to correct me if this is wrong), there has never been a law in British or English history that stipulates every subject has a right to own a firearm. Lets assume for the sake of argument that this law in fact did exist from the Magna Carta on to present day. Do you think the transition to a gun-free public would be an easy one?

I'm sure it will be extremely difficult, and will financially be a real burden. It may mean that things get worse before they get better.

But surely, eventually, it needs to be done. Nothing good ever comes easy.

But yeah, logistically I can imagine it being a nightmare

Guns are prominent in America for multiple reasons:

- guns and violence have almost always been sold via pop media as "cool" and "hard"

- there is ultimate pressure in being "cool" and "hard" at an early age

- guns and the right to carry guns, make most people "proud to be an American", especially in the south and Midwest

- very importantly, a LOT more people are paranoid these days/ have a very thick judgement of everyone else around, in the form of "it's not safe to go out anymore, everyone's fuckin crazy"

We live in a system of fear and we are being sold on weapons.....not a good combo

  On 7/20/2012 at 4:14 PM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

Yeah, I mean its good to still recognize that its a minority who are gun nuts, but there is a majority who accept the current viewpoint on owning guns, moderates, even some liberals.

The United States is a very unique example AFAIK, where the right to own a gun has been incorporated into the whole "America is apple pie and baseball" cultural background.

 

 

I can tell you from personal background, that Im sort of on the fence about gun ownership, as I can see the pros and cons of both sides...but heres the interesting part

 

As the US Constitution stipulates the right to bear arms, and having been successively interpreted as having the right to own arms, it balls itself up into the validity of the rest of the Constitution...so if we "attack" one, we risk "attacking" the whole thing (ie. the "end of the Constitution=the end of democracy". Yeah, its a pretty risky slippery slope argument, and Im not saying its necessarily right, but Americans by and large have been culturally attuned to this line of thinking.

 

I mean, think about it this way. AFAIK (and feel free to correct me if this is wrong), there has never been a law in British or English history that stipulates every subject has a right to own a firearm. Lets assume for the sake of argument that this law in fact did exist from the Magna Carta on to present day. Do you think the transition to a gun-free public would be an easy one?

No.. You're absolutely right. It's not happening over night. But it's possible, just like it is in the rest of the world.

But you wrote something in the lines of (before you edited): "some people can handle owning a gun, and some people don't".

That alone should be reason enough to invest all the time and money in the world to outlaw gun ownership. It's as simple as that if you ask me. But again, I'm born in a society with an entirely different opinion on the subject. So what do I know.

It's just disgusting how some people can develop a fetish for something that's used to kill people with. I don't get it

*polishes halo*

Events like this have the opposite effect in the US. No one will ever wake up. This will simply encourage more people to go out and get a concealed weapons license to protect themselves in scenarios like this. Instead of these types of events vanishing, I fear that the US will inevitably turn in to Robocop style bloodbaths where people feel the need to become vigilantes and take the law in to their own hands. I hate to point out the obvious, but the fact that this took place is at the premiere of a Batman movie is just way too much.

It makes it hard not to feel like I need to own a gun to protect my self from people who own guns, who own guns to protect them selves from people who own guns.

Guns don't kill people. Americans kill people.

  On 7/20/2012 at 4:37 PM, Rubin Farr said:

Guns don't kill people. Americans kill people.

This thread needs Kanakori ASAP

  On 7/20/2012 at 4:37 PM, Rubin Farr said:

Guns don't kill people. Americans kill people.

Pretty much.

  On 7/20/2012 at 4:37 PM, Rubin Farr said:

Guns don't kill people. Americans kill people.

looks like it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

some very rough correlations:

usa has got 2.8 time more guns than sweden, but crime related deaths in usa are 4.3 times higher.