Thoughts on making a live-instrument "IDM" record...?

  On 11/21/2012 at 11:15 AM, Awepittance said:

  On 11/21/2012 at 12:19 AM, LimpyLoo said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVR11aatVok&noredirect=1

 

awesome video

i like their iphone apps

I have to say it was a bit disillusioning to see them using Effectrix and stuff like that.

Of course it doesn't at all affect the quality of their stuff but I guess I had just built up this mythical idea of Mouse on Mars where their methodology was always as innovative as their sound.

glad other people mentioned mouse on mars in here... Niun Niggung and Idiology are probably the peak of their live instruments stage

also their live album needs 2 be heard

what's amazing is that at no point does their usage of live instruments become trite. it's already in the dna of the music

Meat Beat Manifesto's actual sounds and voices albums comes close

Battles + Supersilent definitely too

I've got a feeling that a strong approach to e-drums would be borrowing/stealing the process of some MPC user whose aesthetic you appreciate, then just triggering your notes with e-drums instead of MPC pads. Some MPC drummers are quite good, in terms of both sound and technique, and it's all MIDI innit.

  On 11/21/2012 at 8:22 PM, vamos scorcho said:

Meat Beat Manifesto's actual sounds and voices albums comes close

*shudder* so fucking good. Subliminal Sandwich too.

Vespestad and Storløkken are fucking maniacs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orxWmmDDV0s&feature=related

I'm going to say Super Furry Animals are way up there for me. They blend pop and IDM in a way nobody else does, including and BEFORE Radiohead.

I like them more. Instead of doing a cold, sort of watered down Autechre like "Idioteque" they have their own spin which is unique to them. And it tends to be more uplifting. Both are great obviously...

this is from 1999

when did Kid A come out?

speaking of Mouse on Mars

  On 11/21/2012 at 8:19 PM, LimpyLoo said:

I have to say it was a bit disillusioning to see them using Effectrix and stuff like that.

 

 

Of course it doesn't at all affect the quality of their stuff but I guess I had just built up this mythical idea of Mouse on Mars where their methodology was always as innovative as their sound.

you don't really get much of a peak into their actual methodology though, seeing the tools they use doesn't really mean much to me at least. It would be like getting a peak inside Autechre's studio and feeling deflated that they had such normal everyday equipment without watching Sean or Rob actually use one of them in detail

more often than not i feel like artists that keep their methodology either very obscure or esoteric don't produce the most interesting music.

Interesting thread.

Recently I've been thinking about those matters of live playing versus programming and I would like to "play" more things in my tracks. I even think that at some point I'd like to experiment with the constraint of playing all the sounds live, with keys and pads. I'm not a keyboard wizard but I'm looking forward to what could come out of more key striking and knob twiddling.

I'm lazy to search but Squarepusher gave a very interesting interview when Ufabulum came out, where he said that this album is basically 100% programmed and he makes interesting points about the subject.

I also have a very nice experience with live electronics. My room mates are musicians as well and something like five days before making our welcome flat party, we took the strange decision of building a small live electronic set to show to our new acquaintances from this new foreign city we moved in. What is strange is that we spend the four days before the party working really hard for this 15 minutes live set, performing as much as we could so that it would be ready in time, and from the time after the party we didn't touch the tracks any single time again. It's something like five month ago now and since then we regularly say that we should really work on those tracks again and go further with this project but for some reason we don't do so (we have other musical projects).

As for the setup of this live, it was simple and musically very engaging : no laptop, just hardware. An Electribe SX-1 (mostly for the rhythms but also some synths), a DX9 with a memory man delay pedal and a distortion pedal, two toy-synths and a small mixer with one FX (we used the reverb).

This setup had basically three posts : one of us had the electribe, one the dx9, and one the two toy-synths + the small mixer. We switched our posts between the tracks, and at some points of the tracks, there was always something to do in one of the three posts that couldn't be performed by the one of us who was actually occupying it, so the neighbor had to press a button of play some notes while dealing with his own post in the same time. That worked really well and was also funny to see.

I could upload an edit of the rehearsals we made on soundcloud if someone is interesting. Unfortunately we didn't record the live we played in front of our guests, which was actually the best one we performed. I could probably quickly edit something decent with the rehearsal versions though.

Could be a pretty decent idea if you can use the electronic instruments to leverage what you're doing live. Have a look at people like Duracell who trigger loops with drums....

http://youtu.be/2QfwKqy3LyY

I used to work with a programmer from Renderware that wrote a system to run an accompaniment to what he was playing on the guitar. The program would comp whatever he was playing given a few simple variables. Really impressive.

Its definitely the future, you can only do so much, even if you're an MPC savant like AraabMuzik the form of the interface constrains you a bit too much...

http://youtu.be/tt3dgVmhghE

My main issue with performed approximations of electronic music is that people seem to gravitate toward the same four-piece live idiom of guitar/guitar,keys/bass/drums. This usually results in a live musical landscape that lacks in aesthetic diversity; idiosyncratic playing aside a guitar still sounds like a guitar, a bass like a bass and a drum kit like a drum kit.

When I see videos of a virtuoso drummer overdubbing an IDM track it's impressive, but it also eschews the importance of the diverse samples used to create the drums, which are often made from disparate, non-musical objects. This aesthetic attention to detail is so important for engaging electronic music. If every drum track could suddenly only be made using a standard drum kit it would be an aesthetic disaster for electronic music...

  On 11/25/2012 at 9:50 PM, Goiter Sanchez said:

My main issue with performed approximations of electronic music is that people seem to gravitate toward the same four-piece live idiom of guitar/guitar,keys/bass/drums. This usually results in a live musical landscape that lacks in aesthetic diversity; idiosyncratic playing aside a guitar still sounds like a guitar, a bass like a bass and a drum kit like a drum kit.

When I see videos of a virtuoso drummer overdubbing an IDM track it's impressive, but it also eschews the importance of the diverse samples used to create the drums, which are often made from disparate, non-musical objects. This aesthetic attention to detail is so important for engaging electronic music. If every drum track could suddenly only be made using a standard drum kit it would be an aesthetic disaster for electronic music...

Excellent points!

I think it could be awesome and hilarious to have a traditional setup, only with MIDI pickups, e-drums & a vocoder. . . somehow both relateable and new! All dressed like the Beatles or something and Merzbow comes out of the instruments.

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:03 PM, A/D said:

  On 11/25/2012 at 9:50 PM, Goiter Sanchez said:

My main issue with performed approximations of electronic music is that people seem to gravitate toward the same four-piece live idiom of guitar/guitar,keys/bass/drums. This usually results in a live musical landscape that lacks in aesthetic diversity; idiosyncratic playing aside a guitar still sounds like a guitar, a bass like a bass and a drum kit like a drum kit.

When I see videos of a virtuoso drummer overdubbing an IDM track it's impressive, but it also eschews the importance of the diverse samples used to create the drums, which are often made from disparate, non-musical objects. This aesthetic attention to detail is so important for engaging electronic music. If every drum track could suddenly only be made using a standard drum kit it would be an aesthetic disaster for electronic music...

Excellent points!

 

I think it could be awesome and hilarious to have a traditional setup, only with MIDI pickups, e-drums & a vocoder. . . somehow both relateable and new! All dressed like the Beatles or something and Merzbow comes out of the instruments.

I'd be first in line for tickets to that!

I agree and disagree (with Goiter).

Yes acoustic drums are a limited palette, but so is a 303 or a 606 or whatever.

And guys like Jojo Mayer and Mark Guiliana have given me hope that IDM is completely feasable for performing.

A limited sound palette can be a nice motivation to get creative with what's available, on the flip-side, the world of electronic music is ripe with timbre options and it is easy to focus on the sound options at the expense of the composition itself. (not saying one way is better than the other, just that both methods require people to be creative in different ways)

I hope your experiment turns out to provide you much entertainment, limpy

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:17 PM, LimpyLoo said:

I agree and disagree (with Goiter).

 

Yes acoustic drums are a limited palette, but so is a 303 or a 606 or whatever.

I wasn't referring specifically to drum machines; those are even more aesthetically limiting than a live kit.

What I'm trying to say is, if I created a hi-hat out of samples I collected of smacking an A 440 tuning fork against an aluminum water-bottle filled quarter-full and attached to a ceiling fan and then ring-modulating it in post; well, no live kit normally sounds quite like that... The lack of a propulsive sense of aesthetic creativity (which to me is tantamount to compositional creativity) leaves me less willing to invest time in a project of this sort.

But, have fun doing it regardless!

So,

has anything been made here, or do you lot just talk about it?

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:34 PM, Goiter Sanchez said:

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:17 PM, LimpyLoo said:

I agree and disagree (with Goiter).

 

Yes acoustic drums are a limited palette, but so is a 303 or a 606 or whatever.

 

I wasn't referring specifically to drum machines; those are even more aesthetically limiting than a live kit.

What I'm trying to say is, if I created a hi-hat out of samples I collected of smacking an A 440 tuning fork against an aluminum water-bottle filled quarter-full and attached to a ceiling fan and then ring-modulating it in post; well, no live kit normally sounds quite like that... The lack of a propulsive sense of aesthetic creativity (which to me is tantamount to compositional creativity) leaves me less willing to invest time in a project of this sort.

 

But, have fun doing it regardless!

As far as the musique concrete aspect, then yeah I agree, but again only partially.

I've seen many drummers incorporate all sorts of metal junk into their kits. Sky's the limit.

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:36 PM, Fahz0r said:

So,

 

has anything been made here, or do you lot just talk about it?

if you read the thread, you'll see I'm waiting on some Ampex 456.

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:40 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

if you read the thread, you'll see I'm waiting on some Ampex 456.

Actually I gave up after someone's "sequencers/computers are for the birds" comment. Is that the reason why you haven't at least tried out some things and recorded it to a computer/laptop or so? To wait for a fresh recording medium?

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:52 PM, Fahz0r said:

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:40 PM, LimpyLoo said:

if you read the thread, you'll see I'm waiting on some Ampex 456.

 

Actually I gave up after someone's "sequencers/computers are for the birds" comment. Is that the reason why you haven't at least tried out some things and recorded it to a computer/laptop or so? To wait for a fresh recording medium?

yeah, i'm just burnt out on making stuff on a computer, in a DAW.

Computers/sequencers/DAWs are awesome and I love them, and I am in no way an anti-digital guy, but workflow- and vibe-wise I need to do something new or I'll just spiritually stagnate and never feel inspired again in my life (which is how I feel at this moment).

I like the limitations and workflow and vibe of tape. And the logistics are such that I can just set up my 388 in my practice space and leave it there, whereas lugging my desktop back and forth would be a nightmare (and I don't feel like buying a laptop).

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:59 PM, LimpyLoo said:

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:52 PM, Fahz0r said:

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:40 PM, LimpyLoo said:

if you read the thread, you'll see I'm waiting on some Ampex 456.

 

Actually I gave up after someone's "sequencers/computers are for the birds" comment. Is that the reason why you haven't at least tried out some things and recorded it to a computer/laptop or so? To wait for a fresh recording medium?

 

yeah, i'm just burnt out on making stuff on a computer, in a DAW.

 

Computers/sequencers/DAWs are awesome and I love them, and I am in no way an anti-digital guy, but workflow- and vibe-wise I need to do something new or I'll just spiritually stagnate and never feel inspired again in my life (which is how I feel at this moment).

 

I like the limitations and workflow and vibe of tape. And the logistics are such that I can just set up my 388 in my practice space and leave it there, whereas lugging my desktop back and forth would be a nightmare (and I don't feel like buying a laptop).

Or move your bedroom into your practice space :P

Well I didn't mean using a DAW for the compositions but more only for recording/multitracking your idea sketches for now, after so many days since the initial idea it might get a bit stale.. Or at least that happens with me but then again I pretty much live inside my studio.

It's a brilliant way to stay inspired mate, I just hoped you'd have already put something down before the inspiration goes away..

  On 11/26/2012 at 12:23 AM, Fahz0r said:

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:59 PM, LimpyLoo said:

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:52 PM, Fahz0r said:

  On 11/25/2012 at 11:40 PM, LimpyLoo said:

if you read the thread, you'll see I'm waiting on some Ampex 456.

 

Actually I gave up after someone's "sequencers/computers are for the birds" comment. Is that the reason why you haven't at least tried out some things and recorded it to a computer/laptop or so? To wait for a fresh recording medium?

 

yeah, i'm just burnt out on making stuff on a computer, in a DAW.

 

Computers/sequencers/DAWs are awesome and I love them, and I am in no way an anti-digital guy, but workflow- and vibe-wise I need to do something new or I'll just spiritually stagnate and never feel inspired again in my life (which is how I feel at this moment).

 

I like the limitations and workflow and vibe of tape. And the logistics are such that I can just set up my 388 in my practice space and leave it there, whereas lugging my desktop back and forth would be a nightmare (and I don't feel like buying a laptop).

 

Or move your bedroom into your practice space :P

 

Well I didn't mean using a DAW for the compositions but more only for recording/multitracking your idea sketches for now, after so many days since the initial idea it might get a bit stale.. Or at least that happens with me but then again I pretty much live inside my studio.

 

It's a brilliant way to stay inspired mate, I just hoped you'd have already put something down before the inspiration goes away..

Thanks, mate.

Still in the compositional phase, listening to tons of Wayne Shorter tunes, tightening up my medium- and low-moeller technique, making patches and trying to decide if I wanna use guitar at all.