Max/MSP

  On 7/28/2015 at 10:30 AM, Brisbot said:

I've tried MaxMSP a number of times, and which I think it's neat, most of what I hear from myself (and others) is stuff that can easily be made in a DAW. The only reasons I'd ever really go indepth with MAX is if I find a limitation in what I'm trying to do in my DAW. It's also important that I be able to get it done reasonably quick/efficient, so if it's somehow faster in MAX, then that would be a good reason to go to it for me I guess.

 

 

It can really be used however you want it to be used. Some people never touch the MSP part of it and just build midi controls and sequencers for their hardware. You could make a computer game in it with enough time. One thing it isn't though is quick; there is a lot of mouse clicking and typing that is carpel tunnel syndrome inducing.

  On 7/28/2015 at 10:30 AM, Brisbot said:

I've tried MaxMSP a number of times, and which I think it's neat, most of what I hear from myself (and others) is stuff that can easily be made in a DAW. The only reasons I'd ever really go indepth with MAX is if I find a limitation in what I'm trying to do in my DAW. It's also important that I be able to get it done reasonably quick/efficient, so if it's somehow faster in MAX, then that would be a good reason to go to it for me I guess.

 

 

That's surprising to read. I started using Max because I use it to do things that aren't possible with the limitations that DAWs have. While they're convenient for straightforward, conventional composition, they make experimentation very difficult because they simply aren't designed for it.

for basic mixing and audio editing / putting together a track structure MAx/msp alone would be a nightmare. this is why Max4live is such a game changer.

  On 7/30/2015 at 12:14 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

for basic mixing and audio editing / putting together a track structure MAx/msp alone would be a nightmare.

Yeah, structuring a track in Max tends to not work because the slight inaccuracies in the float processing with inevitably cause counters to get out of sync. It's best to just record different tracks from MSP and then arrange and mix them in Ableton. M4L seems strange and complicated to me, though, so I've never fucked with it.

You can use open sound control (OSC) for communicating between your DAW and the program. It's what I use with Renoise.

  On 7/30/2015 at 3:04 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

man i can't wait to get max4live running on my pc, i'm paying for a student-priced full version of max 7 ($350au not a bad deal) but the latest vers of ableton i'd need to run m4l is still more than $600, so that's almost a grand just to get some authorisation for some data on my PC, for some amazing programs of course, but still...can't i just do a series of infomercials...WILL THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY ROBERT HENKE??

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

it is a running joke for me that henke is the sole employee at ableton

 

 

are you anti pirating software? Maybe im unethical but like 99% of the software I used is pirated. Only stuff i've bought is from indie developers like Aalto. Max/msp newest full version is not cracked for Mac afaik but to run Max4live you don't have to have a legit copy of Max, you only need one to create Max4live patches. Annoyingly Ableton made it so that to edit Max4Live patches you need to actually open Ableton, you cannot save/edit/load Max4live patches into a legit fully paid for MaxMSP since they obviously want you to buy both... assholes

  On 7/31/2015 at 1:53 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

 

  On 7/30/2015 at 3:04 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

man i can't wait to get max4live running on my pc, i'm paying for a student-priced full version of max 7 ($350au not a bad deal) but the latest vers of ableton i'd need to run m4l is still more than $600, so that's almost a grand just to get some authorisation for some data on my PC, for some amazing programs of course, but still...can't i just do a series of infomercials...WILL THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY ROBERT HENKE??

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

it is a running joke for me that henke is the sole employee at ableton

 

 

are you anti pirating software? Maybe im unethical but like 99% of the software I used is pirated. Only stuff i've bought is from indie developers like Aalto. Max/msp newest full version is not cracked for Mac afaik but to run Max4live you don't have to have a legit copy of Max, you only need one to create Max4live patches. Annoyingly Ableton made it so that to edit Max4Live patches you need to actually open Ableton, you cannot save/edit/load Max4live patches into a legit fully paid for MaxMSP since they obviously want you to buy both... assholes

 

totally off-topic but since you said. if you ever upgrade to W10 could you let me know if all that sweet pirated software stills works? Thank you :)

  On 7/31/2015 at 1:53 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

 

  On 7/30/2015 at 3:04 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

man i can't wait to get max4live running on my pc, i'm paying for a student-priced full version of max 7 ($350au not a bad deal) but the latest vers of ableton i'd need to run m4l is still more than $600, so that's almost a grand just to get some authorisation for some data on my PC, for some amazing programs of course, but still...can't i just do a series of infomercials...WILL THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY ROBERT HENKE??

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

it is a running joke for me that henke is the sole employee at ableton

 

 

are you anti pirating software? Maybe im unethical but like 99% of the software I used is pirated. Only stuff i've bought is from indie developers like Aalto. Max/msp newest full version is not cracked for Mac afaik but to run Max4live you don't have to have a legit copy of Max, you only need one to create Max4live patches. Annoyingly Ableton made it so that to edit Max4Live patches you need to actually open Ableton, you cannot save/edit/load Max4live patches into a legit fully paid for MaxMSP since they obviously want you to buy both... assholes

 

So let me get this straight. If I just bought ableton without buying max, I can use max4live devices but i just can't change them or make my own?

  On 7/31/2015 at 2:53 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

i think that's correct danny yeah. think you need the swankiest vers though (suite)

yes you need suite.

  On 7/31/2015 at 2:02 AM, Danny O Flannagin said:

 

  On 7/31/2015 at 1:53 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

 

  On 7/30/2015 at 3:04 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

man i can't wait to get max4live running on my pc, i'm paying for a student-priced full version of max 7 ($350au not a bad deal) but the latest vers of ableton i'd need to run m4l is still more than $600, so that's almost a grand just to get some authorisation for some data on my PC, for some amazing programs of course, but still...can't i just do a series of infomercials...WILL THAT MAKE YOU HAPPY ROBERT HENKE??

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

it is a running joke for me that henke is the sole employee at ableton

 

 

are you anti pirating software? Maybe im unethical but like 99% of the software I used is pirated. Only stuff i've bought is from indie developers like Aalto. Max/msp newest full version is not cracked for Mac afaik but to run Max4live you don't have to have a legit copy of Max, you only need one to create Max4live patches. Annoyingly Ableton made it so that to edit Max4Live patches you need to actually open Ableton, you cannot save/edit/load Max4live patches into a legit fully paid for MaxMSP since they obviously want you to buy both... assholes

 

So let me get this straight. If I just bought ableton without buying max, I can use max4live devices but i just can't change them or make my own?

 

well don't take my word for buying ableton since I've never done it (and probably never will) im talking about pirating Ableton Suite 9, and yes when you do that you can use max4live devices in it. I'm 99% sure you need a legit install of maxmsp to actually save edited max4live devices or make your own.

best part about MAx4live for me is it has an insane amount of midi effects. I don't understand why Reaktor is so lacking in this department.

Anyone else use logic with max? Looks like it's much better suited for ableton, but i've used logic forever now and doubt i'll change that any time soon.

Up to this point i've just been sending audio into logic using soundflower, recording and then arranging the parts there. Haven't explored any further than that but there must be more interesting ways to use the two together?

  On 7/31/2015 at 12:39 PM, misc said:

Anyone else use logic with max? Looks like it's much better suited for ableton, but i've used logic forever now and doubt i'll change that any time soon.

 

Up to this point i've just been sending audio into logic using soundflower, recording and then arranging the parts there. Haven't explored any further than that but there must be more interesting ways to use the two together?

the interesting thing about max4live is that it opens up whole new ways of getting Max to interact with a DAW that i never even thought of until it existed. For example there are Max4live objects that can actually create midi parts/clips and drop them into your session timeline. This is something that before Max4live could not be done, even if you got Max to interact with Live.

Also imagine in Logic if you had a channel strip of effects and you wanted to randomize every single knob on every single plugin with the click of one button. Before with just MAx + Logic you'd have to do it all over Midi or OSC and assign shit. In Max4live things are integrated in such a way where there is already a max4lve patch called 'randomize channel' which fully randomizes an entire channel of effects with no assigning necessary. Stuff like this makes max4live a total game changer even if you've already been using maxmsp for years

  On 7/31/2015 at 8:22 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

 

  On 7/31/2015 at 12:39 PM, misc said:

Anyone else use logic with max? Looks like it's much better suited for ableton, but i've used logic forever now and doubt i'll change that any time soon.

 

Up to this point i've just been sending audio into logic using soundflower, recording and then arranging the parts there. Haven't explored any further than that but there must be more interesting ways to use the two together?

the interesting thing about max4live is that it opens up whole new ways of getting Max to interact with a DAW that i never even thought of until it existed. For example there are Max4live objects that can actually create midi parts/clips and drop them into your session timeline. This is something that before Max4live could not be done, even if you got Max to interact with Live.

 

Also imagine in Logic if you had a channel strip of effects and you wanted to randomize every single knob on every single plugin with the click of one button. Before with just MAx + Logic you'd have to do it all over Midi or OSC and assign shit. In Max4live things are integrated in such a way where there is already a max4lve patch called 'randomize channel' which fully randomizes an entire channel of effects with no assigning necessary. Stuff like this makes max4live a total game changer even if you've already been using maxmsp for years

 

Looks like i'm using the wrong daw :/

  On 7/31/2015 at 12:39 PM, misc said:

Anyone else use logic with max? Looks like it's much better suited for ableton, but i've used logic forever now and doubt i'll change that any time soon.

Well turns out i might change that soon haha, i've started strongly considering the switch to ableton. I could get a pretty sweet deal with the student discount on suite.

Just wanted to hear some opinions from max for live users on whether it'll be worth it. Is it just a matter of m4l making it more accessible to use max with a daw, or is it gonna open up a whole new set of possibilities? John Ehrlichman mentioned some interesting stuff above.

Also i'm a bit baffled about the m4l crossgrade option on abletons website. Is that for if you already own max? Cause if so i could just get the standard ableton version and the m4l crossgrade, and save a bit of money, as opposed to the suite bundle. Is suite worth it? Seems like it mainly just comes with a ton of sound packs and i never use them. The additional synths look cool as well though.

Pls help i'm torn.

  On 9/2/2015 at 3:45 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

go for ableton. it's the bee's knees

 

max4live with ableton is a daw for the new millennium...and beyond!

Yeah not gonna lie man the more i look at ableton, the more appealing it becomes. It just makes logic look so clunky, especially in terms of linking with max.

Downloading the free trial now, excited to give it a go.

Yah do it man - It was the DAW (well, with all the M4Live stuff) that finally moved me from 2 decades of using nothing but trackers !

  On 9/2/2015 at 4:02 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

i don't know many people that tried it and didn't like it, unless they were just into recording bands or whatever. don't let the "cartoonish" gui fool you into thinking ableton doesn't sound as good or is as serious as other daws. it was designed by monolake to get the idm out of your brain and into a waveform in the most intuitive way possible :D best of luck!

I still don't understand why it's faux pas to use ableton for recording and mixing. From what i know about both Protools and Ableton, it seems like ableton can do just as much and more than Protools. Maybe it's just a work flow thing

  On 9/4/2015 at 7:03 PM, Danny O Flannagin said:

 

  On 9/2/2015 at 4:02 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

i don't know many people that tried it and didn't like it, unless they were just into recording bands or whatever. don't let the "cartoonish" gui fool you into thinking ableton doesn't sound as good or is as serious as other daws. it was designed by monolake to get the idm out of your brain and into a waveform in the most intuitive way possible :D best of luck!

I still don't understand why it's faux pas to use ableton for recording and mixing. From what i know about both Protools and Ableton, it seems like ableton can do just as much and more than Protools. Maybe it's just a work flow thing

 

cause

Nothing beats your good ol' trusty Max/MSP standalone.

I found this patch that Tim Hecker + Fennesz + others use. In fact I think Tim Hecker uses this in a live act with ISIS.

http://ppooll.klingt.org/index.php/Main_Page

if you get it to work properly please post it here :)

  On 9/2/2015 at 4:02 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

i don't know many people that tried it and didn't like it, unless they were just into recording bands or whatever. don't let the "cartoonish" gui fool you into thinking ableton doesn't sound as good or is as serious as other daws. it was designed by monolake to get the idm out of your brain and into a waveform in the most intuitive way possible :D best of luck!

Ableton Live makes everything much more complicated if you're trying to do more than just structure a series of tracks and mix them together. Max is significantly easier for any sort of sequencing and manipulation of audio, especially if you want different signals to interact with each other at various points. I think Max for Live is probably the best way to go to get the best out of sequencing, interaction, arrangement, and mixing. I've never actually tried M4L myself, though, because I just use Max to play around without actually caring about making full songs out of it, sort of like an aural sandbox.

the only thing I dont like about it is that certain Max4live devices inexplicably do not save parameters upon saving and re-opening. Also it has the tendency to be a bit unstable (a tad more than running multiple Reaktor instances) other than that its fucking great, totally changed the way I make music

  On 10/15/2015 at 12:25 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

the only thing I dont like about it is that certain Max4live devices inexplicably do not save parameters upon saving and re-opening. Also it has the tendency to be a bit unstable (a tad more than running multiple Reaktor instances) other than that its fucking great, totally changed the way I make music

Ru talking about maxforlive or max/msp in general?

I just remembered that I managed to set up Max for Live a while ago and set it aside in order to get around to it later. Unfortunately, I have no idea what is possible with it, so I didn't know where to start.

You folks here said something about it having a lot of capabilities involving how it interacts with the DAW, so could any of you give a brief demonstration of this? For example, I'd like to know whether its possible to send data from one device into a receive object in another track, because if it isn't, then it'll significantly limit the way I like to use Max (that is, having pretty much every aspect of every track either influencing or influenced by another aspect in another track, and so on).

Aside from that, it seems like M4L will make MIDI configurations much easier, cutting out all the annoying bits, and it'll also make it easier to fuse manual and generative sequencing together.

Aye it definitely can, it's how patches like this are able to do their thing -

  On 7/28/2015 at 11:41 AM, misc said:

 

  On 7/28/2015 at 2:20 AM, Entorwellian said:

 

http://www.musimathics.com/

These two books. Buy them, download them or steal them. These are the *best* books I have read on teaching the subject to someone who is a layman. It's trig and algebra heavy but they have appendixes at the back to give you a refresher on everything and it goes through Physics 101 in relation to music. It translates the differential calculus parts into (long) algebra so you don't have to go beyond Algebra II. You can throw in the equations and constants that are in the books and put them into Max. One third of the first volume is dedicated to algorithmic and generative music composition.

 

Secondly, there is also Miller Puckette's Theory of Electronic Music, but its a very difficult read. LOTS of trig. But everything that you learn in there can be 100% ported to Max almost object for object.

 

Finally Andy Farnell's "Designing Sound". Read this one after Musimathics 1 and 2.

 

 

Nice one, will definitely check them out. Thanks!

 

Hey entorwellian, i finally got around to reading the first musimathics. Really great read. I especially enjoyed the composition and methodology section, fascinating stuff. So thanks for the suggestion and i look forward to getting into volume 2.

I was hoping to get some ideas from anyone about sequencing in max. I've been messing with a few methods for a while now, and produced some stuff i'm fairly pleased with, but the sequencing tends to feel either too static, as if it were just done on a piano roll, or too nooodley and aimless.

A couple of methods i've tried:

- Using a metro and counter to loop through a certain number of steps, and then a sel object with the step numbers as its arguments, sending the bangs from the sel to trigger different elements. Then messing with how the counter runs, e.g. direction, which step it starts on etc. This usually feels static and boring though so i gave up on it a while ago.

- Having a metro sending a bang at the beginning of each bar and then using del objects to delay the bang, triggering the events in each bar. This one seems to be more flexible with more opportunities for interesting stuff. However i find that when deciding the time by which to delay each bang, i'm often just choosing random numbers until it sounds good, which i guess isn't necessarily a bad thing but feels a little lacking in control.

So yeah just wondering what methods you lot use? I know it's a case of just experimenting with the stuff i've worked out already, and refining them so i have more control, but i'm still curious to hear how others approach it.