Death (a difficult subject)

late edit:

 

"We are looking out for their interests by aggressively (with words) condoning"

 

I am a dumbass, disapproving* instead of condoning

the problem with alcohol is that it can totally take any form of rational judgment you have and completely throw it out the window. i hadn't experienced this before winter break when my boyfriend got really drunk and couldn't stop rapping despite my pleas for him to stop (if you're reading this hon, sorry, i had to share). he's one of the most thoughtful, reasonable people i know, so to see how alcohol could make him totally "out-of-control" really opened my eyes. it made me realize that alcohol completely takes agency away from a person in some cases. luckily, most drunks rarely get to the point where they're still conscious and acting like this, which is why i think a lot of people underestimate its effects. i feel bad for this girl because she really had no control. she had nothing in her mind that could say "stop, this is a bad idea." in the same vein, people that start bar fights and such exhibit the same total lack of inhibition. it's scary.

 

do laws against drunk driving, fighting, etc. help prevent this behavior? i'm not sure. i think that teaching people responsible drinking habits is the only thing that could really help. does a drunk really care about drunk driving laws or public intoxication laws? probably not if they're in that sort of state. teaching people the dangers of lack of control and keeping them from getting to that point seems more effective. too bad our culture thinks that getting wasted in public is totally acceptable.

  On 1/28/2013 at 7:57 PM, Hoodie said:

the problem with alcohol is that it can totally take any form of rational judgment you have and completely throw it out the window. i hadn't experienced this before winter break when my boyfriend got really drunk and couldn't stop rapping despite my pleas for him to stop (if you're reading this hon, sorry, i had to share). he's one of the most thoughtful, reasonable people i know, so to see how alcohol could make him totally "out-of-control" really opened my eyes. it made me realize that alcohol completely takes agency away from a person in some cases. luckily, most drunks rarely get to the point where they're still conscious and acting like this, which is why i think a lot of people underestimate its effects. i feel bad for this girl because she really had no control. she had nothing in her mind that could say "stop, this is a bad idea." in the same vein, people that start bar fights and such exhibit the same total lack of inhibition. it's scary.

 

do laws against drunk driving, fighting, etc. help prevent this behavior? i'm not sure. i think that teaching people responsible drinking habits is the only thing that could really help. does a drunk really care about drunk driving laws or public intoxication laws? probably not if they're in that sort of state. teaching people the dangers of lack of control and keeping them from getting to that point seems more effective. too bad our culture thinks that getting wasted in public is totally acceptable.

 

Pretty much. I think the laws definitely are a reminder to people, because people hate the idea of getting a DUI. As it really is a pain in the ass (as it should be). So I think it deters people from having one more drink etc before they get into looney land. When someone is heavily intoxicated on alcohol, stuff like that rarely enters their brain tho. They need responsible people around them to tell them or force them to not drink and drive. But if everyone is drunk out of their mind, this probably won't happen. Typically for events where I know I am gonna get drunk, house parties etc... the host and general rule is that if you are gonna party, you sleep on the couch or floor. No one drives.

Edited January 28, 2013 by compson

I wrote this awhile ago so there are probably a bunch of pertinent posts that I missed, but here goes.

 

I don't want to bring religion into this, I was merely stating that this is part of why I view things the way I do. However, I don't think it's strange at all to say "And there are plenty of things that you've done that are wrong that that person would never have done." I'm not disregarding anything bad people do as okay, or socially acceptable in any way. But I think when you start to shame people this way it's dehumanizing; it doesn't show concern, it shows disrespect. There is not a problem with chastising someone when appropriate for the bad things they do, and righteous anger is a thing for sure, but interventions are not for shaming people, they're for trying to help a person. And while I can't vouch for the intentions of another person, I believe that saying "you're disgusting" or "you're a monster" doesn't convey "I care about you and others around you and I want you to change", instead it conveys "I no longer accept you" and disregards them. This does not fix problems, it amplifies them, regardless of whether you actually care about them or not (and I question the internal motives of a person who says things like this "for their own good"). It's expressing your distaste for a person as opposed to the things they do.

 

I'd also like to point out that public shame generally leads to hiding problems, not solving them. Again, it's a dehumanization thing.

I find death fascinating... It's truly somewhat maddening when you stop and think that not one single person alive on this planet right now has a complete certainty of what happens to them when they die. Also, For the most part people have no idea when/how they are going to die either. There are exceptions to this of course like the terminally ill, or critically wounded, but even then those individuals were unsure until it came time to face it, and had lived most of their lives with that uncertainty. That uncertainty of death along with it's inevitability is surely why some people are so afraid of it, and I'd imagine it's that same thought that leads people to take the comforts of religious beliefs of various afterlifes or reincarnation (that's touching on a whole other topic though so I'll leave that at that).

 

I once wrote a poem based on these thoughts that was published locally, I'll have to find the file and post it in this thread.

 

As for the girl in the video being discussed, I imagine in her level of intoxication (3x the legal limit the video said) it's hard for her to even wrap her head around the full gravity of the situation, I imagine the shock and lingering guilt/psychological damage will hit harder upon sobering up.

Edited January 29, 2013 by ghOsty

Holy shit a thread for me to opine my entire life's philosophy ( I swear its fucking positive, no matter how you cut it)

 

 

but im too drunk to succinctly write it out.

 

 

 

ill be back...and hopefully a vain attempt to inspire, encourage, and proliferate in the spread of love and good feelings.

 

 

edit:

 

Ive actually spent the last 2-3 hours writing a speech that will probably never be given by me in public, but its a speech that, if asked to present to a graduating class at my university, would revolve entirely around the idea of death that would make it an ultimately uplifting and positive push for all of humanity to reunite around real, very real ideas of a unified race, the human race, to do good for each other and all of our small corner of the universe.....lol...its about 4 pages at this point...some major editing and expansion will be required.

 

and im not daring to post it hear to be laughed off by waves of cynics. lol

Edited January 29, 2013 by Smettingham Rutherford IV

  On 1/29/2013 at 8:22 AM, gmanyo said:

I wrote this awhile ago so there are probably a bunch of pertinent posts that I missed, but here goes.

 

I don't want to bring religion into this, I was merely stating that this is part of why I view things the way I do. However, I don't think it's strange at all to say "And there are plenty of things that you've done that are wrong that that person would never have done." I'm not disregarding anything bad people do as okay, or socially acceptable in any way. But I think when you start to shame people this way it's dehumanizing; it doesn't show concern, it shows disrespect. There is not a problem with chastising someone when appropriate for the bad things they do, and righteous anger is a thing for sure, but interventions are not for shaming people, they're for trying to help a person. And while I can't vouch for the intentions of another person, I believe that saying "you're disgusting" or "you're a monster" doesn't convey "I care about you and others around you and I want you to change", instead it conveys "I no longer accept you" and disregards them. This does not fix problems, it amplifies them, regardless of whether you actually care about them or not (and I question the internal motives of a person who says things like this "for their own good"). It's expressing your distaste for a person as opposed to the things they do.

 

I'd also like to point out that public shame generally leads to hiding problems, not solving them. Again, it's a dehumanization thing.

 

As I said, you politely ask them to not drink and drive, sleep on the couch etc, if they ignore this then I see no problem with getting more aggressive in tone and publicly shaming them as that is a good way to kill a persons confidence and make them realize they aren't some hot shot who can go riding around drunk at 2 o clock in the morning. I'm of the complete belief that drug addiction should be treated as a medical issue not a criminal one and that positive encouragement works better than punishment BUT that is not a golden rule. I mean I have no real issue with drug abuse/alcohol abuse, those are personal decisions. But when you take it a step further and you are known to drink and drive, known to be reckless and dangerous, then absolutely I will call them assholes and monsters. If they were my friend I would make this more clear by telling them they need to stop, need to get help for alcohol addiction, etc... but if after this attempt the behavior continues, I would publicly shame them at the next party, take their keys from them and tell them that if they don't at least agree to stop drinking and driving then they can stop thinking about hanging out amongst me/us. Fine if you want to drink your sorrows away, but that does not get my sympathy if after all attempts to communicate "Dont Drink and Drive" they continue. At this point the most hopeful result is that the police get them for a few DUI's and they lose their license and need to attend AA for help. This is not dehumanizing, this is instilling a process that enforces moral judgement correctly. And while I have absolutely nothing against personal belief in religion and think those beliefs are as sacred as who you want to love or marry, I still can be very critical towards an institution that condemns condoms (Vatican actually telling Uganda that using condoms spreads AIDS easier) and who's commandments / holy book has promoted anti semitism (up until 1964), thought policing, the devaluing of females (half the population), and the devaluing of homosexuals; Real dehumanization, plus many more examples... but the gist of what I am getting at is how one can be critical of people who classify an immoral act as monstrous (drunk driving) while they support an institution that has throughout history actually dehumanized? And to top it off, you didn't just do something wrong, No no no... you now will burn in hell for eternity. This is evil in my opinion and I see no real moral grounds for it needing to be there. Churches in America already have so much power and wealth (something Jesus would be disgusted by I'm sure) that any possibility that the readings and tradition of its teachings hold any kind of exclusive ear to the word of God after it has immorally produced a totalitarian, fascist, dehumanizing hierarchy seems dishonest.

Edited January 29, 2013 by compson

 

  On 1/29/2013 at 10:17 AM, compson said:

but the gist of what I am getting at is how one can be critical of people who classify an immoral act as monstrous (drunk driving) while they support an institution that has throughout history actually dehumanized?

Lmao you really are a mug. "YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE, I WON'T SUPPORT ANY INSTITUTION THAT DEHUMANISES" says Compson, as he throws the imposing weight of his approval behind liberal democracy and enthusiastically endorses pointless wars in the middle east.

 

PS, you sound like an absolute wanker to have at a party.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Iain C

  On 1/29/2013 at 1:12 PM, Iain C said:

 

  On 1/29/2013 at 10:17 AM, compson said:

 

but the gist of what I am getting at is how one can be critical of people who classify an immoral act as monstrous (drunk driving) while they support an institution that has throughout history actually dehumanized?

Lmao you really are a mug. "YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE, I WON'T SUPPORT ANY INSTITUTION THAT DEHUMANISES" says Compson, as he throws the imposing weight of his approval behind liberal democracy and enthusiastically endorses pointless wars in the middle east.

 

PS, you sound like an absolute wanker to have at a party.

I do throw my approval behind liberal/socialist democracy and do think post-Saddam Iraq is better for the people of Iraq and for our interests as well. I don't support any form of torture or drone strikes. But I do think that it was the right thing to do to get rid of a fascist, genocidal, mob/mafia family who controlled the Iraqi peoples oil reserves and used that money building palaces for themselves. Now they have a more secular, democratic government in the region with oil revenues going towards rebuilding Iraq. We established a police force that fights for the people instead of against. No more do you have family members forced to applaud the public execution of their loved ones because of dissent against the regime. But this is an entirely a different topic of discussion. One I am very much open to having. Just not sure if this is the right thread for it. I will make one more quick point however and that is that I am born a citizen of the US, therefore I am apart of it, which is different than a religious institution in that I can avoid the institution but still practice and use holy texts as I wish. I cannot do the same when dealing with my relationship with my country. I am of overall support of the United States but that goes with a healthy dose of dissent and protesting. If it were that religious institutions and governments could be directly correlated, I would still vastly support the US government over the Vatican Catholic Church or any other major religious institution because I find the belief that one must receive morality from a supernatural eternal father to be one of the most degrading and insulting things one could say towards a human being.

Edited January 29, 2013 by compson

I had to interject in this thread that I think my grandma is dying. Not in the "she has cancer" kind of way. Just in that she is giving up on life. My grandfather, her husband of 55+ years, passed away a few years ago and she has never really found a reason to get up in the morning since then. She does, but I have been able to tell that she doesn't know why. Now she has suffered a fall that has made her less mobile, and she isn't really warming up to physical therapy, nor is she warming up to the idea of moving out of her house and into assisted living or some other kind of home. Not that I blame her for that, although she can be very social and I think it might be good for her in the end. I think she wants to just fade away.

 

Other than calling her & writing more often, I'm not sure what to do, if anything can be done. Just venting a bit. Sorry to derail.

this video made me cry:

 

  On 2/2/2013 at 2:33 AM, Hoodie said:

this video made me cry:

 

 

I don't know what I think about that (the video)...

did you watch it all the way through? it's crazy how the lady faced death with so much bravery. just knowing that you only have minutes left to live... christ, i can't even imagine.

  On 2/2/2013 at 2:36 AM, Hoodie said:

did you watch it all the way through? it's crazy how the lady faced death with so much bravery. just knowing that you only have minutes left to live... christ, i can't even imagine.

 

I watched it through. It made me feel very uneasy for some reason.

 

She was suffering from a non-fatal disease. She chose death over that.

 

Brave yes.

Non-fatal doesn't mean not painful.

 

edit: I see where you're coming from though. Personally, I would never choose suicide. I don't care if that means dying when I'm incoherent, bed-ridden and shitting through a tube. I don't want to take away the only life I've got.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Hoodie

Definitely.

 

I can't even begin to comprehend her situation. Being able to confront death like that.

Edited February 2, 2013 by StephenG

  On 2/2/2013 at 2:36 AM, Hoodie said:

did you watch it all the way through? it's crazy how the lady faced death with so much bravery. just knowing that you only have minutes left to live... christ, i can't even imagine.

  On 2/2/2013 at 2:42 AM, StephenG said:

Definitely.

 

I can't even begin to comprehend her situation. Being able to confront death like that.

one time I thought I was dying and felt like what little life I had was draining away, and really it wasn't that bad, tragic at first, and dissapointing, and pathetic, but ultimately meaningless.

Re: the video. First off, *non fatal* illness? Wtf, why did she kill herself?

 

Second: that video seems like it could be the worst form of propaganda. Why? Because they cut away. I suspect they did so because she started getting "undignified" - twitching or thrashing or spitting up or gasping. Ever taken your pets to be euthanized? I've had to do that for several and in about half the cases they didn't seem like they were having much fun. One of my cats was all mellow until he suddenly started gasping in huge gulps, like he was drowning.

 

So at least if they are going to promote the "assisted suicide" agenda, best to show it in all its unvarnished glory. Let us see her gasp or twitch or drool.

 

That said, she did face it like a badass

  On 2/2/2013 at 3:39 AM, lumpenprol said:

Re: the video. First off, *non fatal* illness? Wtf, why did she kill herself?

 

Because shes probably is so much pain, why would anyone want to live the rest of their days confined to a bed in pain, being a burden to your loved ones, pretty much being unproductive and miserable. its no kind of life.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Deer

if you drink and drive you arent a monster, just a manslaughterer. and a fucking cunt.

its like standing on a roof and occasionally dropping sinks onto a pavement without looking. only a completely shitty person would do it.

Edited February 2, 2013 by messiaen

  On 1/27/2013 at 9:24 PM, StephenG said:

Thanks =).

 

This girl is a complete POS and I hope karma does its thing and ensures her death is painful.

When I used to have a drinking problem, I never endangered other peoples lives....Take a fucking cab or public transit.

 

I don't think I have anything to add to this thread though or any answers to Happy's questions. It's not a topic I'm ready to confront at age 23 I guess!

 

Not to de-rail the thread or anything, but StephenG: When you had a drinking problem, how much would you drink in a given week? I realize it's unfair and innacurate to compare people and their habits, but I just want to compare my habits with someone who acknowledges they had a drinking problem.

  On 2/3/2013 at 6:50 AM, Candiru said:

Not to de-rail the thread or anything, but StephenG: When you had a drinking problem, how much would you drink in a given week? I realize it's unfair and innacurate to compare people and their habits, but I just want to compare my habits with someone who acknowledges they had a drinking problem.

 

I was drinking on average around 16oz/16 shots of hard (40% or higher) liquor per day, or the equivalent amount of alcohol in beer/wine/anything.... On a bad day I would drink a 750ml bottle of hard alcohol, usually whiskey or rum. I had a bad day about twice a week...

 

I didn't take days off or anything. I needed alcohol to sleep, and if I stopped drinking abruptly I would have SPS (simple partial seizures), sweat all night, be sleepless all night, etc.

 

It was rough. Now I drink by choice, usually on weekends with friends. It's a good feeling to have a choice.

 

I'm happy I didn't ever hurt anyone or drive drunk or anything with my habit, and somehow managed to maintain great grades and show up for work! I was still responsible but clearly physically addicted.

Edited February 3, 2013 by StephenG

Stephen that's fucking incredible, and I'm glad you were able to stop. At the point in my life when I was drinking that much, I once rollerbladed across the highway while listening to Tri Repetae. Booth only knows how I'm still alive.

  On 2/3/2013 at 6:05 PM, luke viia said:

Stephen that's fucking incredible, and I'm glad you were able to stop. At the point in my life when I was drinking that much, I once rollerbladed across the highway while listening to Tri Repetae. Booth only knows how I'm still alive.

 

 

Thanks!

 

What were you doing rollerblading across the highway!? haha crazy. Booth must have been watching over you lol.