North Korea

Kim's nuclear test caused multiple landslides, and a tunnel collapse killing 200 of his own people in all:

https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/world/a-tunnel-collapsed-at-a-north-korean-nuclear-test-site-reportedly-killing-200-people/ar-AAuijWK?li=BBqrVLO&ocid=wispr

Truth is way stranger than fiction.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-kim-passports-exclusive/exclusive-north-korean-leaders-used-brazilian-passports-to-apply-for-western-visas-sources-idUSKCN1GB2AY

  On 3/1/2018 at 2:42 AM, chenGOD said:

Truth is way stranger than fiction.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-kim-passports-exclusive/exclusive-north-korean-leaders-used-brazilian-passports-to-apply-for-western-visas-sources-idUSKCN1GB2AY

Josef Pwag would be a deece username tho

Mostly wondering if there's some reason this story is coming out now. Seems like a very small curiosity. Just anti-NK propaganda from the west?

Probably no access to the passports until now. But yeah it’s a small curiosity, just the user name is great. Josef Pwag.

The worst kinds of leaders. Do as I say, not as I do.

This could end up being the 2018 equivalent of Berlin Wall falling

in b4 trump gets the friggin noble peace prize

He shouldn't get shit, because he had nothing to do with this...

I love this photo though.

1:06 is great, taking turns going on each side

I love this.

Can’t seem to embed this.

https://m.imgur.com/moidgyH

  On 4/27/2018 at 7:38 PM, lumines said:

Can’t seem to embed this.

 

https://m.imgur.com/moidgyH

whoa

you can tell the DPRK is dialing back a bit by not also having bodyguards run in front of the limo

  On 4/27/2018 at 6:50 PM, Squee said:

He shouldn't get shit, because he had nothing to do with this...

I keep encountering this sentiment, and I dunno how people can authoritatively say this.

Answering a reporter's question, [Korean President] Moon grinned and said he believed the US president made a "huge" contribution to the first dialogue between North and South Korea in over two years, and said that he wanted "convey his thanks."

"Clearly, credit goes to President Trump," [Koren Foreign Minister] Kang told CNN's Christiane Amanpour in Seoul. "He's been determined to come to grips with this from day one."

Kang added more, saying "I feel like somebody stepped on the accelerator at the beginning of the year and it's been non-stop since then."

“The Trump administration deserves credit for increasing the pressure and deepening even further the alienation between China and North Korea,” says Professor John Delury, an East Asia expert at Yonsei Univeristy in Seoul. “And globally, there have been a lot of bilateral relationships where Trump has put North Korea at the top of the agenda.”

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but I'm genuinely confused as to how people can make this claim while Korean officials and academics are all saying that he at least deserves some credit here.

Also, sorry about the formatting, I don't know how that happened.

Threatening a country with "fire and fury like the world has never seen" should not get you anything.

cant stop thinking about this classic post in this thread:

  On 4/5/2013 at 2:53 PM, compson said:

It begins...

lol

  On 4/27/2018 at 8:26 PM, Squee said:

Threatening a country with "fire and fury like the world has never seen" should not get you anything.

I respect your opinion, but I'm going to trust the people who have actively been involved in the negotiations on where credit is due.

  On 4/27/2018 at 8:29 PM, Snack Master said:

 

  On 4/27/2018 at 8:26 PM, Squee said:

Threatening a country with "fire and fury like the world has never seen" should not get you anything.

 

I respect your opinion, but I'm going to trust the people who have actively been involved in the negotiations on where credit is due.

 

yeah. i mean, the "should" looks good on paper and all. in principle. but the world just works a little bit different.

as far as i'm concerned, the positive of trump is that he brings a certain amount of 'crazy' to the table. and in certain circumstances that can be a positive. because it might force parties out of a current status quo. so, in a way, all this talk in the media that trump is unstable and unpredictable can work in his favor. another positive of 'crazy trump' is that it could make it easier for north-korea to appear rational, for whatever thats worth. it drives north and south closer together, because the third wheel on the car is wonky. the other wheels simply have to work together. before trump, i'd argue north-korea always was the wonky third wheel. which is a difficult when you want to come to some kind of agreement. crazy trump might just have levelled the playing field between north and south. 

but chen is the specialist around here. so im looking forward to read his views. regardless though, it looks like a historic event!

it was Twitter what won it

I've not looked into the nuts and bolts so an honest question: who does NK trade with, generally, before sanctions? Is America that big of a partner that our direct trade sanctions hurt them? I assumed we were a part of the move to sanction (perhaps even spearheaded it politically) but not actually a big direct business partner...I've always heard they mostly traded with SK, China, Russia, and I think Japan? Again, I'm not informed and too lazy to go read 10K words about it spread out in articles or a book, just curious if anyone here wants to sum up which sanctions actually hurt them, because I'm assuming that's exactly what's caused their supposed turnaround over the last few months, directly after harsher sanctions were being enacted.

BTW I'm really waiting for ball to drop. Kim Jong Un seems to have done a complete 180 and it just reeks of bullshit and temporary play-nice until they can get some money moving again.

  On 4/27/2018 at 8:45 PM, goDel said:

 

  On 4/27/2018 at 8:29 PM, Snack Master said:

 

  On 4/27/2018 at 8:26 PM, Squee said:

Threatening a country with "fire and fury like the world has never seen" should not get you anything.

 

I respect your opinion, but I'm going to trust the people who have actively been involved in the negotiations on where credit is due.

 

 

yeah. i mean, the "should" looks good on paper and all. in principle. but the world just works a little bit different.

 

as far as i'm concerned, the positive of trump is that he brings a certain amount of 'crazy' to the table. and in certain circumstances that can be a positive. because it might force parties out of a current status quo. so, in a way, all this talk in the media that trump is unstable and unpredictable can work in his favor. another positive of 'crazy trump' is that it could make it easier for north-korea to appear rational, for whatever thats worth. it drives north and south closer together, because the third wheel on the car is wonky. the other wheels simply have to work together. before trump, i'd argue north-korea always was the wonky third wheel. which is a difficult when you want to come to some kind of agreement. crazy trump might just have levelled the playing field between north and south. 

I was literally just thinking the same thing. I'd wager the perception of the U.S.A. as chaotic and dangerous, plus the increasing annoyance with the U.S.A. in South Korea is increasing a sense of the illegitimacy of the U.S.A.'s demands. It's a power move for both NK and SK. I imagine both countries will get a real boost in their public perception. Who the fuck knows though. I'd really hate for this to fall apart and it result in an invasion from one side.

  On 4/27/2018 at 9:07 PM, auxien said:

I've not looked into the nuts and bolts so an honest question: who does NK trade with, generally, before sanctions? Is America that big of a partner that our direct trade sanctions hurt them? 

China and ROK and some non-aligned leaning countries in Asia. Interestingly during the thaw in relations in the late 90s/early 00s they traded with South Korea. China has always had clout for that reason in terms of sanctions from their end, perpetual biggest partner in exports, likewise China supplies half of their imports.

I think the recent sanctions were pretty crippling though, same with Iran which has had to be very self-reliant in many aspects because of no other options. That said, the collapse of the Eastern Bloc/USSR was just as much of a blow as the sanctions of the last decade. Ironically they enjoyed a better economy and standard of living than the ROK until the 1970s. Black market and illicit DPRK activity existed but it's been overblown in some instances. For example illegal arms in third world conflicts have often been supplied on DPRK flagged boats. They were pretty smart about workarounds, in mid-80s they managed to get 87 American/Western built MD500 helicopters.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/how-north-korea-smuggled-87-us-scout-helicopters-22638

^Thanks dude. Even simpler than I thought, really. Mostly China, and China was bound by the UN sanctions, but of course there were reports of NK getting some under the table stuff from China/Russia (not sure if this was ever confirmed). 

So, did Trump/Haley/America force the UN's hand on sanctions in this most recent case? Or was it just Trump talking trash on Twitter while there were also real politicians in the UN going through with sanctions anyway? That's basically what I'm getting from these >

  On 4/27/2018 at 8:11 PM, Snack Master said:

Kang added more, saying "I feel like somebody stepped on the accelerator at the beginning of the year and it's been non-stop since then."

 

“The Trump administration deserves credit for increasing the pressure and deepening even further the alienation between China and North Korea,” says Professor John Delury, an East Asia expert at Yonsei Univeristy in Seoul. “And globally, there have been a lot of bilateral relationships where Trump has put North Korea at the top of the agenda.”[/size]

I'm not trying to say that big talk in a public forum can't have some place in political discourse and be a part of a cause for change, but just in general I tend to follow the money and if our contribution was basically just "TALK SHIT" and support UN sanctions, then I'm not sure Trump or America is deserving of credit there specifically, eh?

In general, not directed towards anyone in particular here. Thinking out loud as I'm learning, mostly.

And now Merkel is also praising Trump for his role in the negotiations

"Today, we meet at a point in time where it has become very clear that the strength of the American president, where he really saw to it that the sanctions against North Korea are respected, has opened new possibilities, opened new ways,” Merkel said during a joint press conference with Trump.

  On 4/27/2018 at 9:55 PM, auxien said:

Thanks dude. 

https://i.imgur.com/moidgyH.gifv

North Kore