How 'Rational Atheists' spread anti Islam pro US military propaganda

Absolutely...

(Full disclosure: I have Ebola)

what are we talking about again?

  On 9/29/2015 at 9:51 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Peter Sculley (child snuff producer)

Has a few collaborators who are currently walking free among us

Hope I'm not the only one who googled Peter Sculley and ended up reading the former president of Pepsi-Cola's wiki page

  On 9/29/2015 at 10:02 PM, caze said:

 

  On 9/29/2015 at 9:43 PM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 9/29/2015 at 7:32 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 9/29/2015 at 6:59 PM, chenGOD said:

If you can't see how faith and spirituality can benefit some people then there's no point in having the discussion.

Similarly, there are medical benefits in some cases to male circumcision. Scientifically proven.

 

But you know, keep keeping on with that martyr complex.

I'm all about spirituality

Don't see how that relates here, though

If your spirituality is contingent on dubious empirical claims

Then you're doing it wrong

 

And the fact that circumcision has benefits is a coincidence

This is stuff nobody knew 10,000 years ago

And has zero to do with why (say) I was circumcised

If people were circumcised for purely health reasons

Then I could get down with that

But if it's to appease some ancient superstition

Then frankly shame on you for defending it

 

 

 

  On 9/29/2015 at 7:36 PM, caze said:

The medical benefits of circumcision are vastly exaggerated, in most cases where mutilation apologists would justify it's use the correct treatment is simply time and not being a shitty parent (I.e. clean your fucking baby properly), for a smaller proportion stretching the skin is enough to solve the problem, in a still smaller number of cases a topical ointment is enough, only in a tiny percentage of cases would surgery be necessary.

 

You guys - such proponents of science.

Unless

 

the science

 

goes against

 

you

 

r

 

 

be

 

lie

f

 

 

the science doesn't go against me. and none of your links back you up (the link to the prevention of HIV is particularly dumb). also, it's ludicrous to talk about the risks and benefits, and then ignore the fact of mutilating a baby for no good reason in your pro/con tabulation.

 

Umm until you come up with some scientific research beyond just "the link to prevention of HIV is particularly dumb", it's gonna be tough to have a discussion.

There are good reasons for circumcision, which the latest CDC research (from December 2014) outlines. Also it's difficult to call it mutilation - mutilation means to destroy something beyond repair or recognition. Which male circumcision clearly does not do.

It's laughable because babies don't have sex with people, so cutting off bits of the penises without their consent when doing so provides zero benefit is not justifiable. Voluntary circumcision in areas with high risk rates for HIV might be a good idea, and there is indeed research to back that up, but that's not the case in the west. Condoms are of course far better protection against HIV. It's also worth noting that badly performed circumcisions can actually lead to an increase in HIV.

Do you also think female genital cutting is not mutilation?

  On 9/30/2015 at 12:12 AM, caze said:

It's laughable because babies don't have sex with people, so cutting off bits of the penises without their consent when doing so provides zero benefit is not justifiable. Voluntary circumcision in areas with high risk rates for HIV might be a good idea, and there is indeed research to back that up, but that's not the case in the west. Condoms are of course far better protection against HIV. It's also worth noting that badly performed circumcisions can actually lead to an increase in HIV.

 

Do you also think female genital cutting is not mutilation?

It's not just HIV.

yeah, most of that is nonsense too.

yikes so now a my thread has turned into a 'circumcision is healthy' thread, couldn't have turned any worse to be honest. sorry for anyone who finds this atrocious (and also wants infants to be able to keep their whole penis upon birth)

  On 9/30/2015 at 12:42 AM, caze said:

yeah, most of that is nonsense too.

An excellent scientific response.

Sorry about the sidetrack JE.

you didn't answer me though, do you also think female genital cutting is not mutilation?

  On 9/30/2015 at 12:46 AM, caze said:

you didn't answer me though, do you also think female genital cutting is not mutilation?

Oh I was talking about male circumcision. Why are you bringing up female genital cutting?

  On 9/30/2015 at 12:47 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 9/30/2015 at 12:46 AM, caze said:

you didn't answer me though, do you also think female genital cutting is not mutilation?

 

Oh I was talking about male circumcision. Why are you bringing up female genital cutting?

 

Because I want to know if your strange belief that circumcision is not a form of mutilation also applies to women.

So far I haven't come across any research that demonstrates that female circumcision has any benefits.

There is research that indicates that there is a strong correlation between circumcision and decreased incidences in a variety of diseases and infections (do you want the research articles they cited in my earlier post?).

Therefore the two are mutually exclusive, nor is it inconsistent to hold divergent opinions on the two topics.

  On 9/30/2015 at 12:54 AM, chenGOD said:

So far I haven't come across any research that demonstrates that female circumcision has any benefits.

 

There is research that indicates that there is a strong correlation between circumcision and decreased incidences in a variety of diseases and infections (do you want the research articles they cited in my earlier post?).

 

Therefore the two are mutually exclusive, nor is it inconsistent to hold divergent opinions on the two topics.

You still haven't answered my question, is it mutilation or not?

I've read up on the health claims you've linked to before, I wasn't convinced by them, it's shoddy work. AFAIC there isn't any strong correlation generally speaking.

I'm just throwing this out there but what is mutilation? I'm circumsized (yeah Sean you know you want it) and I have no recollection of it whatsoever. Just playing devils advocate here but why are you so against mutilation? What's that morality?

Yes it is. Because female genital cutting actually does impair function. On the other hand, there is no adverse effect to a correctly performed male circumcision.

Can't argue with your second point - because one cannot argue with belief. The numbers show a fairly strong correlation to a decrease in incidence of cancer, HPV and urinary tract infections. Sample sizes were large enough to be representative, confidence intervals were reasonable enough to provide some significance. Of course you have clinical studies to back up your claims of shoddy work?

How about just not severing off parts of tiny little humans without any dire need to do so? Is that a valid argument?

  On 9/30/2015 at 12:50 AM, Blank said:

 

  On 9/30/2015 at 12:45 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

yikes so now a my thread has turned into a 'circumcision is healthy' thread, couldn't have turned any worse to be honest. sorry for anyone who finds this atrocious (and also wants infants to be able to keep their whole penis upon birth)

I want to turn it into a hugging-and-kissing fest tbh - it's the sexy way to go. Speaking of which, gimme a big ol' smooch bb <3

 

I can picture The John, sitting in his dark room, ripped bible pages all over the walls screaming to himself "HE DOESNT CARE ABOUT POLITICS!!!!!!"

Join us, John. Join us.

Caze has taken up role as Eugene 2.0... It's a great time to be on WATMM. Evidence goes nowhere

Arguing that male circumcision is anything like mutilating the clirotus or the multitude of horrible things lumped under 'female circumcision' just shows how emotionally fueled and non-rational your debate points are.

I've never had a problem with my penis and like alco said above, I don't remember it. My cousin had to have his done at 18 due to lack of care or something and he has reported no ill effects after spending the majority of his yanking years with a hooded warrior.

Am I not supposed to cut and umbilical cord? - There --- > an argument I can throw in your way to make the argument seem ridiculous and further my point. Feels good, don't it.

Q: Is circumcision a microaggression?

A: Depends on the size of the dick.

Q: How sensitive is the matter of dick size?

A: Your question is considered to be a microaggression.

it's kind of a dick move to cut of a part of the penis of your infant child; they have no concept of the whole matter.it's the parents' choice, and the parents' choice alone.

if you circumcise because of religious reasons, then go fuck yourself; no doctrine should prescribe this and if the doctrine does, it's a shit, backwards doctrine.
if you circumcise because of health reasons (be it HIV, syphilis or whatever), damn dude, fuck you too

HIV, syphilis => wear condoms or just do not be promiscious

hygiene => wash your penis for gods sake

  On 9/30/2015 at 9:10 AM, Phoenix said:

it's kind of a dick move to cut of a part of the penis of your infant child; they have no concept of the whole matter.it's the parents' choice, and the parents' choice alone.

 

if you circumcise because of religious reasons, then go fuck yourself; no doctrine should prescribe this and if the doctrine does, it's a shit, backwards doctrine.

if you circumcise because of health reasons (be it HIV, syphilis or whatever), damn dude, fuck you too

HIV, syphilis => wear condoms or just do not be promiscious

hygiene => wash your penis for gods sake

no lol

just no