How 'Rational Atheists' spread anti Islam pro US military propaganda

This sums up how watmm has been felt lately:

Here's some more 'anti-Islam propaganda'

http://www.atheoryofus.net/islam-statistics

(I'm curious to see how the 'tolerance' camp will spin that info)

do you find it a bit suspicious when people focus on islam so heavily? it almost seems like these rational atheists just throw in a few jabs here and there about christianity just almost as a 'here's my black friend' type of approach/cover. I still stand by the idea that a lot of people even when using statistics to prove how evil islam is are driven by a deep seeded racist fear amplified by the post 9/11 world.

Lots of text. Can you help me point out where they explicitly take into account the effect of totalitarian regimes (or other kinds of oppression)? I could imagine that growing up in a society under totalitarian rule can have a huge impact on the outcomes of the surveys which produced these statistics.

But, of course, when you try to put the blame on religion, the political part of the puzzle is not relevant..somehow. There are lots of reasons why the middle east is fucked up: totalitarian regimes (supported by the west) and arbitrary borders of countries (made by the west...) which don't take ethnical differences into account. Religion is part of this puzzle. Obviously. But if you would redraw the borders and have actual working democracies in the middle east, you'd have a completely different situation. And democracies and islam are not mutually exclusive.

  On 9/27/2015 at 12:48 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

do you find it a bit suspicious when people focus on islam so heavily? it almost seems like these rational atheists just throw in a few jabs here and there about christianity just almost as a 'here's my black friend' type of approach/cover. I still stand by the idea that a lot of people even when using statistics to prove how evil islam is are driven by a deep seeded racist fear amplified by the post 9/11 world.

Yes I know you do, JE

That's the problem

Sam Harris literally starts his career by writing Letter to a Christian Nation

And folks like you say "how come you don't criticize Christianity?"

Again, the 'tolerant' left would never ever admit Islam is a problem

"Hundreds of millions of people in favor of death for apostasy?

I'm sure there's a perfectly PC-friendly explanation for that..."

I spend way too much time criticizing Christianity

And then I criticize Islam

And everyone gets amnesia and says

"Hmm, it's kinda suspicious how you don't criticize Christianity..."

  On 9/27/2015 at 12:28 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Here's some more 'anti-Islam propaganda'

 

http://www.atheoryofus.net/islam-statistics

BREAKING NEWS: ISLAM IS NOT LIBERALISM, I REPEAT, ISLAM IS NOT LIBERALISM.

Go read the actual Pew reports that he bases those on. You'll get a different picture.

For example, it is true that in many of the big Muslim countries, support for Sharia law is high (in Azerbaijan, it's as low as 8%, in Turkey it's 12%, in Lebanon it's only 29%).

But then:

  Quote

At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths. In Pakistan, for example, three-quarters of Muslims say that non-Muslims are very free to practice their religion, and fully 96% of those who share this assessment say it is “a good thing.” Yet 84% of Pakistani Muslims favor enshrining sharia as official law. These seemingly divergent views are possible partly because most supporters of sharia in Pakistan – as in many other countries –think Islamic law should apply only to Muslims. Moreover, Muslims around the globe have differing understandings of what sharia means in practice.

Anyhow, read it and make up your own mind.

  On 9/27/2015 at 1:16 PM, chenGOD said:

Go read the actual Pew reports that he bases those on. You'll get a different picture.

For example, it is true that in many of the big Muslim countries, support for Sharia law is high (in Azerbaijan, it's as low as 8%, in Turkey it's 12%, in Lebanon it's only 29%).

But then:

 

  Quote

At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths. In Pakistan, for example, three-quarters of Muslims say that non-Muslims are very free to practice their religion, and fully 96% of those who share this assessment say it is “a good thing.” Yet 84% of Pakistani Muslims favor enshrining sharia as official law. These seemingly divergent views are possible partly because most supporters of sharia in Pakistan – as in many other countries –think Islamic law should apply only to Muslims. Moreover, Muslims around the globe have differing understandings of what sharia means in practice.

 

Anyhow, read it and make up your own mind.

  On 9/27/2015 at 1:16 PM, chenGOD said:

Go read the actual Pew reports that he bases those on. You'll get a different picture.

For example, it is true that in many of the big Muslim countries, support for Sharia law is high (in Azerbaijan, it's as low as 8%, in Turkey it's 12%, in Lebanon it's only 29%).

But then:

 

  Quote

At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths. In Pakistan, for example, three-quarters of Muslims say that non-Muslims are very free to practice their religion, and fully 96% of those who share this assessment say it is “a good thing.” Yet 84% of Pakistani Muslims favor enshrining sharia as official law. These seemingly divergent views are possible partly because most supporters of sharia in Pakistan – as in many other countries –think Islamic law should apply only to Muslims. Moreover, Muslims around the globe have differing understandings of what sharia means in practice.

 

Anyhow, read it and make up your own mind.

I've brought up those Pew results multiple times in other threads

And I got nothing but crickets

it is one thing to say that criticism of islam is a thinly veiled form of racism and to hate on libertarian fedoras

it is another to make the argument that religion is ok and that islam in particular is tolerant and supercool

especially in europe where christianity really isn't a thing for anyone under 50

but i'd say it's europe's fault anyway - europe's republican values (as in the french republic, not as in conservatives from the US) are a joke and nobody really even tries to make sure that workers from other countries are treated as full citizens except in a relatively abstract way (relatively, because most of the time they do have their rights, but that isn't all there is to it)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mIn3uTYy7eAhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mIn3uTYy7eA

In the words of Christoher Hitchens:

"Resist it while you can."

Here are some anti-blasphemy laws around the world:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law

Resist it while you can.

  On 9/27/2015 at 12:31 PM, LimpyLoo said:

(I'm curious to see how the 'tolerance' camp will spin that info)

why? why is this what you're so curious about?

there is a false dichotomy between the soft liberal position of "nothing inherently wrong with islam as a religion" and the new atheist position of "omg islam is the motherload of bad ideas."

are you so stupid to think there's something actually intelligent about pointing out how islam is fucked up?

sorry dude, you're boring. you're just regurgitating commonplaces from the sam harris camp.

you're an annoying poster in general. you talk large and say nothing.

  On 9/27/2015 at 1:16 PM, chenGOD said:

Go read the actual Pew reports that he bases those on. You'll get a different picture.

For example, it is true that in many of the big Muslim countries, support for Sharia law is high (in Azerbaijan, it's as low as 8%, in Turkey it's 12%, in Lebanon it's only 29%).

But then:

 

 

  Quote

At the same time, the survey finds that even in many countries where there is strong backing for sharia, most Muslims favor religious freedom for people of other faiths. In Pakistan, for example, three-quarters of Muslims say that non-Muslims are very free to practice their religion, and fully 96% of those who share this assessment say it is “a good thing.” Yet 84% of Pakistani Muslims favor enshrining sharia as official law. These seemingly divergent views are possible partly because most supporters of sharia in Pakistan – as in many other countries –think Islamic law should apply only to Muslims. Moreover, Muslims around the globe have differing understandings of what sharia means in practice.

 

Anyhow, read it and make up your own mind.

I've always been under the impression that overall Islamic radicalism is still a fairly new and reactionary thing, more of a ideology run amok among the Muslim populace. Pakistan was fairly secular until 1978. Most pro-Palestinian movements were secular and far-left until the 80s. And the middle east was very much a capitalist vs. socialist dichotomy during the cold war until 1991. Alliances and alignments switch all the time, and often with little to do with literal religious ideals. I try to remind myself this when I read about any post War On Terror militant/terrorist group or activity. Also, ISIS/ISIL is very much a loose virus like entity among the much larger Syrian opposition, which is something much don't grasp. It's impressive military action is being taken against them at all via airstrikes and covert action (arming the Kurds for example) considering how decentralized the group is.

  On 9/27/2015 at 1:15 PM, LimpyLoo said:

I spend way too much time criticizing Christianity

And then I criticize Islam

And everyone gets amnesia and says

"Hmm, it's kinda suspicious how you don't criticize Christianity..."

i am most definitely talking about Sam Harris, and yes I finally actually started reading his writings and it's very clear that he's thinking inside of a racist and US imperialist pov. He may like to call himself rational but the dude is extremely far away from a rational person. People thought he 'won' the debate with Noam Chomsky but the most revealing part for me is when he admitted that when the US kills civilians he thinks they do it for noble reasons VS Islamic terrorism which is rooted in evil. How could someone who claims to be rational repeating shit a 70 year old Fox News watching grandma would believe? Its disgusting

  On 9/27/2015 at 8:52 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 9/27/2015 at 12:31 PM, LimpyLoo said:

(I'm curious to see how the 'tolerance' camp will spin that info)

 

why? why is this what you're so curious about?

 

there is a false dichotomy between the soft liberal position of "nothing inherently wrong with islam as a religion" and the new atheist position of "omg islam is the motherload of bad ideas."

 

are you so stupid to think there's something actually intelligent about pointing out how islam is fucked up?

 

sorry dude, you're boring. you're just regurgitating commonplaces from the sam harris camp.

 

you're an annoying poster in general. you talk large and say nothing.

 

agreed on most, but i like some of Limpy's post just whenever he speaks exactly like Sam Harris I feel bad for him. It just sucks so many people have latched onto the shitty way he thinks

its troubling and really damaging that there is now this fale meme that liberals 'refuse to confront islam' like its something thats our duty to do. Unfortunately this notion of liberalism actually has been forced into the narrative by neocons like Robert Kagan (who my new documentary is about), that to be 'liberal' you must enforce your liberalism everywhere on the planet, and if you don't 'you're not liberal'.

we just have this flaccid omg liberal tolerance is the enemy bullshit. sure, it's bullshit for liberals to give a pass to this that and the next.

but you're not a fucking intellectual to point this out. sorry.

i watched this video in high school or something and it was like about jerusalem and stuff and christian viewpoint vs. jewish vs. muslim viewpoint, and at the end there's just this guy in the street who's like you do all this stuff in the name of God and meanwhile God is actually like YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DOING basically

not saying atheism is good but people have a lot of nerve to presume to know what God (if any) would want. so yeah fuck religion. But if there is a God they're probably so advanced they can't give two shits about half the shit we do

like god is probably just making whole gantz graf universes with their thoughts for shits and giggles

  On 4/5/2013 at 2:15 AM, Alcofribas said:

flol at the responses to the op. it's time to get back to your pkd, watmm.

f u

ok not saying God is liberal but if you could do that would you really care what a bunch of monkey people on green planet do with their genitalia that gives them some mediocre amount of pleasure

  On 9/27/2015 at 10:19 PM, doublename said:

 

  On 4/5/2013 at 2:15 AM, Alcofribas said:

flol at the responses to the op. it's time to get back to your pkd, watmm.

 

f u

 

that was 2013 when my opinions were so lush. so F U BRU

srsly that is my opinion God is actually a huge hedonist although maybe in a childlike curious way and just like invents entirely new colors when they get tired of the old ones. And can solve one of those hypercube rubik's cube in 2 seconds not to mention actually be able to comprehend/visualize it. But I'm sure they're sooooooo concerned with blasphemy laws and 3000 year old books that smell like 3000-year old socks and subjugation of women etc. God just laughs at the debate whether it is a man or a woman because it has some wackass crystal prison genitalia that are completely different and has totally IDM 5th dimensional orgasms that last eons with it. But yes God is so concerned with the modicum of enjoyment people get by stroking their precious egos and ids and superegos

if you were God you could generate Earthbound sequels at will. Just let that sink in for a moment

or new Aphex LPs would be more appropriate for this forum

btw is there a name for the theory I'm touting? Like is that whatever Deism is

In my experience a lot of these "Rational Atheists" are in fact better described as "Objectivists"/Randroids - whose worldview starts out as vaguely-reasonable-sounding blend of libertarianism and atheism, but following some impressive philosophical acrobatics, they end up championing fascist gobshite like pre-emptive nuclear strikes against Iran. Basically they're nutters.

  On 9/27/2015 at 1:16 PM, chenGOD said:

  On 9/27/2015 at 1:16 PM, chenGOD said:

Yet 84% of Pakistani Muslims favor enshrining sharia as official law. These seemingly divergent views are possible partly because most supporters of sharia in Pakistan – as in many other countries –think Islamic law should apply only to Muslims. Moreover, Muslims around the globe have differing understandings of what sharia means in practice.

Remember Sharia is a complete legal system - just as broad in scope as Napoleonic code or Common Law. Supporting Sharia doesn't inherently mean you want to cut people's hands off for revealing a square millimetre of flesh. For example I'd love to take bits of Sharia where they pertain to banking - imagine how neat a non-ursury, non-FR banking system would be.