Logic Pro X is out now!

Really? I think it's only logical that there can be slight differences in the sound character of each DAW.

I'm definitely hearing a difference but also I think half of that is imagination too.

I'm not saying that if you do a test of using the same audio with no DAW attributes like automation etc and see if they sound different...

They won't, not to an ear. But using all the DAWS attributes will colour the sound differently to another DAWS version of the same thing. That's what I mean about DAWS sounding different, that's why I use as little of logic as possible so I don't have a logic sounding mix.

  On 5/10/2017 at 12:41 PM, Chesney said:

I think it's only logical that there can be slight differences in the sound character of each DAW.... using all the DAWS attributes will colour the sound differently to another DAWS version of the same thing

Why do you say that, unless you mean of course using the built-in eq/filer/compressors of one DAW vs. the built-in eq/filer/compressors of another? But if you use the same plugin chains on exactly the same audio, the rendered file should completely null between two different DAWS if you whack one of the rendered files out of phase.

lol there's no way you can pick out what DAW a track was made on by ear. i'm curious to know what tracks do you think have a 'logic sounding mix'?

Edited May 10, 2017 by QQQ

Yeah, I agree if you use third party plugs identically you'd probably not hear any difference if there is any. but you'd have to use as little of the DAW as possible to get that but I doubt many people are doing it like that. People use DAW features for ease, even me and I like to keep myself away from the computer as much as possible.

You couldn't tell what DAW was used by any one person because every element colours the music.

I mentioned Plaid earlier using Logic and that does not surprise me because their later sound sounds like the impression I get from Logic myself. Of course they use loads of plugs and even still some hardware so it's still hard to tell.

It is something that you can't quite put a finger on, like I said, I don't know what feel I get from Reason but the sound is different.

  On 5/10/2017 at 1:07 PM, QQQ said:

lol there's no way you can pick out what DAW a track was made on by ear. i'm curious to know what tracks do you think have a 'logic sounding mix'?

ha, I knew i'd open myself up for this haha. Read above I guess.

I mean you have to use The features inside the DAW for it to sound like the DAW in question. I'm definietly not saying that the actual DAW with no attributes colours the sound significantly for people to tell.

What kind of features would are we talking about - As I say, are you referring to the plugins that come with the DAW?

Yeah, basically anything other than running identical audio through without any interaction from start to finish.

Even the outputs would be slightly different as logic outputs slightly hotter than say pro tools but we're not talking colour just level.

Still, you still wouldn't tell the difference and it would be absurd if you thought you could.

Ive been down this route before and had audio examples for DAW's (long deleted)i compared Logic, Cubase, Live and Pro tools.

It's something to do with how it sums the audio and how their bussing works. slight noticeable difference.

Then when you start adding in 3rd party plugins and latency their is slight phase shift..you can also factor in headroom etc...definitely on 32bit/64bit hosts

 

All native plugins have a sound as that's how they're designed so you cant compare each daw if using them.

 

Conclusion = does it fucking matter if it sounds good?

Nope, and people can sound good working on any DAW but some music that is all or the majority of produced in one area, i.e. DAW is going to have a certain sound (and i'm not thinking of anything in particular). Same as if you only used roland machines or elektron machines, you can hear that timbre throughout. Things have a sound of their own.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Chesney

This site deals more with SRC but it's kinda interesting to compare the sweep outputs of various DAWS and whatnot.

  On 5/10/2017 at 2:36 PM, Chesney said:

Nope, and people can sound good working on any DAW but some music that is all or the majority of produced in one area, i.e. DAW is going to have a certain sound (and i'm not thinking of anything in particular). Same as if you only used roland machines or elektron machines, you can hear that timbre throughout. Things have a sound of their own.

I think people suspect that if you took a bunch of tracks and loaded them into each daw they would come out the end the same and it's only 1's and 0's but in reality it how the software was put together and the way it busses the audio to stereo is probably different just like analog mixers.

 

yo uwould have thought there sound be no different but there a fuck load of variables before you even start adding 3rd party shit in there

  On 5/10/2017 at 4:03 PM, miim said:

yo uwould have thought there sound be no different

No I wouldn't - And I still totally believe that's the case !

 

EDIT: Someone's done the work for me and summed tracks in REAPER, Podium, Vegas, Pro Tools, Cubase, Nuendo, SAW, Samplitude, SONAR and Logic 8

 

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=13473

 

And guess what they summed to when putting one track out of phase.... yep -infinity.

yea i'm talking about busses and summing

So am I, so is the link I posted

  On 5/10/2017 at 4:47 PM, mcbpete said:

So am I, so is the link I posted

there's nothing on there about busses this is where people get confused...

 

Busses is where daws start to differ

Whenever tracks are rendered/exported they'll go through the master track/master bus - In this instance he has three audio stems that get summed together via the master track of each respective DAW

Logic's great - great instruments and effects out of the box. The audio editing is a bit shit I reckon, so I do any of that separately in Audacity/Audition. I have noticed a popping sound with some exports, which goes away when I make slight changes to midi note velocity. I've started using Live for live stuff, but feel too comfortable with Logic for arrangement now - life's too short to be learning new DAWs from scratch.

Yea I'm talking

 

16 stems

 

8 bussed to stereo "drums"

2 bussed to stereo "guitars"

etc

etc...

all summed to master...add in the pan laws etc...

See that question in post 8 and the answer in post 9

  On 5/10/2017 at 5:35 PM, mcbpete said:

See that question in post 8 and the answer in post 9

wrong

How so ?

  On 5/10/2017 at 5:26 PM, westhead said:

Logic's great - great instruments and effects out of the box. The audio editing is a bit shit I reckon, so I do any of that separately in Audacity/Audition. I have noticed a popping sound with some exports, which goes away when I make slight changes to midi note velocity. I've started using Live for live stuff, but feel too comfortable with Logic for arrangement now - life's too short to be learning new DAWs from scratch.

I've been using Logic since I was 16 and started to use Renoise a few years back. Today I suddenly felt like 'fuck this...I'm gonna try out ableton' seems like the final DAW to conquer. Logic can be really depressing sometimes : /

 

I think I'm ready! Am I gonna be disappointed or is this gonna be the best choice I ever made? Any tips or good videos to watch for ableton Beginners would be helpful?

  On 5/10/2017 at 2:27 PM, miim said:

Then when you start adding in 3rd party plugins and latency their is slight phase shift..you can also factor in headroom etc...definitely on 32bit/64bit hosts

Wait, are you trying to say that output sounds different dependant on whether you're running the 32bit executable or the 64bit executable?

  On 5/10/2017 at 12:29 PM, mcbpete said:

I call bull on DAW summing in this day and age - If there's any sound difference 'tween the DAWs then that DAW is just broken!

 

Yah, theoretically, new school DAW summing is supposed to be like unlimited headroom and some perfect summing whatever, but then... have you used Airwindows' Console 4?  When used properly, the definition of elements and sense of clarity is nuts.  So anyway, if a plugin can be used for alternate summing, wouldn't it make sense that every DAW has different summing ideologies?  Also, there used to be a bug in older versions of Logic (which maybe has been fixed), where realtime bouncing of tracks resulted in better sounding files than offline bouncing-- they SHOULD be identical, but they weren't.

 

BUT ANYWAY-- yes, I did read that thread you posted, but the test was limited so I DID MY OWN TEST!  (for like 2.5 hours or someshit)  What I've found is that when master is hit low, bounces were the same (first test was with 9 tracks of a shamisen album), so I was able to invert phase of Reaper's bounce and results were silent when played with Logic's bounce.  HOWEVER, when master is hit hard (second test was playing all tracks of Richard D. James Album at once), then when master is lowered -10dB, the phase invert test resulted in crackling, even at points where there was no clipping.  Sooo, there does seem to be a difference in how Reaper and Logic handle the "over levels", even though with 32-bit summing (64 in Reaper), there should be no difference in output if master is lowered to prevent clipping, theoretically.

 

Yaaaah, but that's prolly not enough to make much of a difference audibly...  My workflow and plugins probably dictate the crazy sound difference between the two DAWs.

  On 5/11/2017 at 9:41 AM, peace 7 said:

peace 7, on 11 May 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

... have you used Airwindows' Console 4? When used properly, the definition of elements and sense of clarity is nuts. So anyway, if a plugin can be used for alternate summing, wouldn't it make sense that every DAW has different summing ideologies?

Yeah Airwindows plugins are ace. Though Console4 does actually do shenanigans rather than 'a different way of summing'

 

The guy who wrote it explains a little what's going on when pushed on KVR:

  Quote

Quote

And yeah, how Console works is saturation/antisaturation (if I ever reach the open-source goal, I might just pick Console4 as the thing to opensource, so people can see how it's done). There's no highs being rolled off anywhere and no transients being moved in time, but the Buss plugin 'reconstructs' what was lost, and it's that which doesn't respond instantly. The glue is all about making that 'reconstructing' of the original wave, dependent on things not being too bright. It pretty much only applies to loud signals, quiet stuff going through both plugins is effectively untouched. It's all very amplitude-dependent. ....If you want perfection and total lack of distortion you can always run ordinary DAW summing

So it's sort of a amplitude-sensitive distortiony thing. It's good anyway - Though I've recently got a copy of Black Box Analog Design HG-2 from a crazy generous Plugin Alliance which kinda does the same thing (though with additional harmonic saturation/distortion) so have switched over to that as being the bus colourisation/tweaker