Logic Pro X is out now!

My ears are not even good enough to tell the difference on that airwindows intro vid ha.

Yeah the Youtube compression doesn't help, though neither does the source material he's using (go to that Youtube page itself and see the top comment ;) )

  On 5/10/2017 at 6:16 PM, mcbpete said:

How so ?

cause it's not talking about busses just stereo master busses

Which is different how .... ?

 

(1+2)+(3+4)+(5+6) ≡ 1+2+3+4+5+6

 

Maybe we need to think about all those lovely nulls.

  On 5/11/2017 at 3:38 AM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/10/2017 at 2:27 PM, miim said:

Then when you start adding in 3rd party plugins and latency their is slight phase shift..you can also factor in headroom etc...definitely on 32bit/64bit hosts

Wait, are you trying to say that output sounds different dependant on whether you're running the 32bit executable or the 64bit executable?

 

no i'm talking about headroom and floating points and fixed point mixers

you can also factor in dithering from src but his is mainly about how the daw summs the audio through busses and etc..totally depends how the software is designed

this thread went waaaay down town

  On 5/11/2017 at 4:52 PM, mcbpete said:

Which is different how .... ?

without having to do loads of explaining daw buss routing and master buss differ in design and spec

gone all gear sluts in here!

 

Logic is Ace! if you use a mac and want everything to sound like plaid or richard devine!

  On 5/11/2017 at 4:52 PM, mcbpete said:

Which is different how .... ?

 

(1+2)+(3+4)+(5+6) ≡ 1+2+3+4+5+6

 

Maybe we need to think about all those lovely nulls.

maybe you need to think about how mixers work not software

 

thats why companies like harrison are making lovely software http://harrisonconsoles.com/site/mixbus.html

 

and why Pro Tools were the first to implement VCA faders

 

Gain control babay!! XX

Edited May 11, 2017 by miim

Ah, OK I see - I've never heard of 'VCA' outside of the analogue & modular synthesizer world. Reading up on this now, still a bit confused but extra info all the same - http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/how-use-vca-groups

what i was trying to say without getting too technical is

 

if you took a bunch of tracks and whacked them in a daw then did a bounce they would be the sameh with some indistinguishable dithering artifacts..

all you're essentially doing is a sample conversion.

 

however when people start using software differently and routing signals to busses and applying pans all sorts of math(s) start coming in to account

headroom, pan laws, gain staging etc...this is where the myth that software sounds this and that etc..

 

theres some pretty complex algorithms happening with all this and as much i would like to think all daws behave the same they simple don't

Gone way too tech for me, what have I started? haha wicked info though and good discussion.

 

I'm happy you are confirming my assumptions though miim. It's even silly things like level automation, I imagine every daw implements these differently, different curves etc when on the face of it it's just a message to say turn up or down here or there.

 

I just thought it made sense that different things made by different people using different code would never sound the same. In the same way mixers with all the same parameters and essentially the same components sound different. It only takes one capacitor value to be different to give a different sound.

I think software venders are starting to implement better standards now especially with interchange formats in particular mixed media using AAF etc. That uses a standard for clip gain and volume automation etc..

 

Handy for if you're working with other people on different platforms and applications but it's far from perfect

but what about the summing in DUBturbo?

  On 5/11/2017 at 9:41 AM, peace 7 said:

 

  On 5/10/2017 at 12:29 PM, mcbpete said:

I call bull on DAW summing in this day and age - If there's any sound difference 'tween the DAWs then that DAW is just broken!

 

Yah, theoretically, new school DAW summing is supposed to be like unlimited headroom and some perfect summing whatever, but then... have you used Airwindows' Console 4?  When used properly, the definition of elements and sense of clarity is nuts.  So anyway, if a plugin can be used for alternate summing, wouldn't it make sense that every DAW has different summing ideologies?  Also, there used to be a bug in older versions of Logic (which maybe has been fixed), where realtime bouncing of tracks resulted in better sounding files than offline bouncing-- they SHOULD be identical, but they weren't.

 

BUT ANYWAY-- yes, I did read that thread you posted, but the test was limited so I DID MY OWN TEST!  (for like 2.5 hours or someshit)  What I've found is that when master is hit low, bounces were the same (first test was with 9 tracks of a shamisen album), so I was able to invert phase of Reaper's bounce and results were silent when played with Logic's bounce.  HOWEVER, when master is hit hard (second test was playing all tracks of Richard D. James Album at once), then when master is lowered -10dB, the phase invert test resulted in crackling, even at points where there was no clipping.  Sooo, there does seem to be a difference in how Reaper and Logic handle the "over levels", even though with 32-bit summing (64 in Reaper), there should be no difference in output if master is lowered to prevent clipping, theoretically.

 

Yaaaah, but that's prolly not enough to make much of a difference audibly...  My workflow and plugins probably dictate the crazy sound difference between the two DAWs.

 

I downloaded Console 4 a few months ago, haven't really got round to using It much yet. Gonna try It out now. I've heard for It to properly you have to do a few things? Im using Logic Pro so If someone could explain how I go about using Console 4 properly, that would be cool : )

  On 5/11/2017 at 7:52 PM, BCM said:

but what about the summing in DUBturbo?

 

That makes money come out of your USB drive, natch.  $IDM

 

 

 

  On 5/12/2017 at 12:44 AM, ceiling said:

 

  On 5/11/2017 at 9:41 AM, peace 7 said:

 

  On 5/10/2017 at 12:29 PM, mcbpete said:

I call bull on DAW summing in this day and age - If there's any sound difference 'tween the DAWs then that DAW is just broken!

 

Yah, theoretically, new school DAW summing is supposed to be like unlimited headroom and some perfect summing whatever, but then... have you used Airwindows' Console 4?  When used properly, the definition of elements and sense of clarity is nuts.

 

I downloaded Console 4 a few months ago, haven't really got round to using It much yet. Gonna try It out now. I've heard for It to properly you have to do a few things? Im using Logic Pro so If someone could explain how I go about using Console 4 properly, that would be cool : )

 

 

There's instructions in the YouTube video comments for the Console 4 demo.  One type of plugin goes on every track.  And another plugin goes on busses.  Something like that.  Haha, sorry I haven't used it in awhile, but the YouTube video comment is a good start.  Also, you if you push the plugins hard, it sounds bad.

Let your channels clip if you don't like how clean it sounds.