FM Synthesis (techniques, anecdotes)

  On 9/1/2015 at 12:10 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

 

  On 8/31/2015 at 7:16 PM, skibby said:

oversampling does nothing to smooth things out really, because everything has to be downsampled again anyway, so its like working on a TIFF in photoshop and saving it as a JPEG anyway. Unless of course your DAW is running at 196, in which case its cool if the FM synth is running at that SR.

disagree. calculating at a higher sample rate will always yield better quality. you just need to know if it's different enough to bother with the extra cpu. using the image example again, imagine working on a photoshop file that will be saved to 512 x 512. if you're doing repeated processing at this resolution it will not look as nice as if you were doing it at 2 or 4x that size.

I totally respect you but, it depends what you mean by 'quality' since audio is sort of like ear heiroglyphics.

one of the best FM synth freeware plugins when it came out, now it is up to date on Windows.

(now it has perfect automation capability)

http://www.oxesoft.com/2015/09/01/new-version-with-automation-support/

  On 9/2/2015 at 2:33 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

 

  On 9/1/2015 at 8:26 PM, skibby said:

 

  On 9/1/2015 at 12:10 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

 

  On 8/31/2015 at 7:16 PM, skibby said:

oversampling does nothing to smooth things out really, because everything has to be downsampled again anyway, so its like working on a TIFF in photoshop and saving it as a JPEG anyway. Unless of course your DAW is running at 196, in which case its cool if the FM synth is running at that SR.

disagree. calculating at a higher sample rate will always yield better quality. you just need to know if it's different enough to bother with the extra cpu. using the image example again, imagine working on a photoshop file that will be saved to 512 x 512. if you're doing repeated processing at this resolution it will not look as nice as if you were doing it at 2 or 4x that size.

I totally respect you but, it depends what you mean by 'quality' since audio is sort of like ear heiroglyphics.

i mean mathematical precision that the user will ideally hear as a smoother and less aliased signal

 

i know u know your stuff, and u know how deep i've been dipping the old wick in phase modulation too. I do agree that there are cases in which oversampling are useful in the process, but just where to put the oversampling is really a good question. firstly, oversampling is i think going to become obsolete, because i believe the samplerate of audio in the future will be edging its way higher and higher as a standard. we are fast approaching a place where oversampling won't be needed because there won't be anybody who can hear the difference between 192khz and higher, etc.

the only real reason to use oversampling with FM is when someone foolishly applies a high frequency operator to another high frequency operator at high levels, and the resulting signal goes beyond nyquist. it's sort of like an arm throwing a ball that has another arm growing out of it throwing another ball. the thing is, if that happens with or without oversampling during the modulation, the output will still sound like noise anyway once it exits the algorithm. I don't always like to hear aliasing, and believe me I will break out a scope to look at waveforms if I hear problems.

I had massive problems while learning to code my own phase modulation software until I unlocked the concept of interpolation. Interpolated delay is the key to smoothness because oversampling itself has no contribution to offer in the actual generation of new samples to smooth out digital stairs. I found that the stairs are most noticable at lower frequencies, when the original signal is being stretched out, since that is when the D to A converter is outputting the values at the samplerate of the device. I spent loads of time fiddling with 2X, 4X, 8X oversampling at practically every step of the way until I realized that the main problem with slowing down audio is the fact that there are missing values that do not equal the previous or next queued sample.

oversampling, i believe has it's rightful place when calculating hypernyquist stuff. But the only time I can hear hypernyquist stuff is when it's slowed down. There are of course several algo's for that as well, and they often munch CPU with, at least in my experience, nominal returns especially when it's in a mix.

In which place do you find that oversampling is best?

There is now a CTRLR panel for the SY77 (works with TG77 too)

You need Ctrlr to make it work.

http://ctrlr.org/yamaha-sy77-editor/

in case that file disappears, here's some mirrors http://www.multiupfile.com/f/a4cbcbe5fd

holy fuuuuck , i literally just got a tg77 (jizzes pants)

Never got that CTRLR to work properly

  On 9/4/2015 at 9:45 AM, telefunken said:

Never got that CTRLR to work properly

yeah it took me AGES to get it to work. I had to go pester the dev, and he actually fixes usually any bugs that pop up, as well as adding features if they are no brainers.

Which hardware FM synth do you people think has the best programming interface?

I think the Reface DX looks pretty well laid out and direct. Other than that, the Monomachine is very hands on and quick (it has a reduced parameter set, take it or leave it). The Stereoping programmer opens up the TX81z pretty well, but lacks a few of the parameters and is a bit unresponsive due to the MIDI traffic throttling.

Always wanted a DX7 as a kid but since getting into making music again later in life I was never bothered about trying FM, the internet is geared to put you off because most of the time the people talking on the internet are old guys with analogue elitsm or stupid people who are just looking for stuff to make the music for them with no effort (huge generalisation I know). Anyway, I bought a DX100 on a whim just because I have always loved the sound but was put off by the interface. I was surprised that when i got it, it was so easy to program. Of course, to a person new to synthesis overall, it would be daunting. The interface is quick and simple.

So, any DX is easy (never tried rack TX's) The monomachine is really easy too and a bit more visual.

I say just dive in.

Sorry for the tldr rubbish.

Yeah, if you know what's going on and start to acquire some muscle memory on the buttons/slider, the DX synths can be quick to program.

But it would definitely help if they had more than one data slider and maybe a visual presentation of the EGs. The reface lets you edit four related parameters at a time, and gives you a visual clue on what's going on other than a value between 0 and 127. =)

Recently saw this DX21 series on Youtube, which makes it look pretty quick and easy to work on:

No note on velocity? Stupid.

  On 4/20/2016 at 10:24 AM, psn said:

Which hardware FM synth do you people think has the best programming interface?

 

I think the Reface DX looks pretty well laid out and direct. Other than that, the Monomachine is very hands on and quick (it has a reduced parameter set, take it or leave it). The Stereoping programmer opens up the TX81z pretty well, but lacks a few of the parameters and is a bit unresponsive due to the MIDI traffic throttling.

Hello,

Has anyone had any recent experience with the FS1R editor called ZeeEdit?

Both in terms of recently purchasing the editor, and/or recently using it?

I was given an old HP desktop box that I was thinking about using as a dedicated box to edit the FS1R with.

I would be using an M-Audio MidiSport 4x4 to communicate with the FS1R.

Also, it would be nice to send the FS1R simple musical sequences while editing the sound parameters, so I would imagine I would need some sort of midi merger thingie?

Thanks for reading,

Al

I love fm so much! FM8 is probably my favorite plugin(with absynth 5 maybe) i made entire drill n bass tracks with only FM8 for synths.

Like 20-30-40 instruments tracks of only FM8.Its wonderful,expressive and can get sounds that are out of this world!

Also i just got a DX7 few weeks ago in a trade for a Minibrute with a friend,and i love it with passion.Its amazing. Hardware takes the FM/PM sound to an even higher level! It feels more alive than FM8.You really feel its coming from a machine,sounds are more organic and powerful!

When you go beyond the usual boring presets and dig into the machine a wonderful world of FM lushness opens to you!

It can go really wild and experimental!

2 recordings with 2 cool presets i made with Dexed.

Syroish bass.mp3Fetching info...

dx7 insects mastering mp3.mp3Fetching info...

Xen FMTS 2 is a pretty sick fm software ,microtuning and shit

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?plugin=Xen-FMTS_2_&id=1864

My most recent FM acquisition is this cool little modular thingy:

Only 20 quid too

Edit, ooh actually my last FM purchase was this last week:

I'll just drop this here
http://noyzelab.blogspot.ru/2016/04/farey-sequence-tables-for-fm-synthesis.html

  On 9/2/2016 at 11:32 AM, telefunken said:

I'll just drop this here

http://noyzelab.blogspot.ru/2016/04/farey-sequence-tables-for-fm-synthesis.html

Dave Noyze made a little tool for PreenFM2 to generate Farey sequence family ratios. It could be used to manually program Yamaha stuff also.http://ixox.fr/forum/index.php?topic=69272.0

Decent V2/DX11 programming:

i honestly really like operator

  On 4/23/2017 at 2:45 AM, sheathe said:

i honestly really like operator

  On 4/18/2017 at 10:01 AM, telefunken said:

Dave Noyze made a little tool for PreenFM2 to generate Farey sequence family ratios. It could be used to manually program Yamaha stuff also.http://ixox.fr/forum/index.php?topic=69272.0

It's in between mnm and Yamaha in terms of fm complexity.

It has 4 op and around 12 algs, but you can set each op to any wave. Sine is best for classic fm but sometimes it's nice to have a triangle in there for a harmonic boost.

The envelopes are pretty deep. The lfo goes well into audio rate, and the kicker is it has a feep filter section so you can use it as a 4 osc subtractive synth.

Also has a mod matrix and operator feedback (only positive feedback, no negative).

My favorite control is the time parameter which globally affects all envelopes plus or minus the current setting.

  On 4/23/2017 at 2:45 AM, sheathe said:

i honestly really like operator

ableton's operator? if yes, i do too! it's my most used syth

Get an Akemie's castle, twist knobs,run it through ass tons of CV,