FM Synthesis (techniques, anecdotes)

  On 5/10/2018 at 7:31 AM, sweepstakes said:

There's also this hideously dated page that goes into the sideband maths that Entorwellian reminded me of when we were hanging out a few years back. I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the author but you'll know the disgusting orange background when you see it. I'll try to find that too. It's not so much about musical applications as some of the kind of math/harmonic/psychoacoustic aspects of it.

Truax! Boom: https://www.sfu.ca/~truax/fmtut.html

 

https://forum.watmm.com/topic/80256-fm-synthesis-techniques-anecdotes/?p=2054404

  On 5/5/2018 at 1:30 PM, Nil said:

I'd love to contribute to that topic, but I'm quite a noob when it comes to FM synthesis, most of my knowledge comes from randomly messing with u-he's Bazille oscillators.

 

Anyway, as I'm on a Gabor Lazar binge, I was wondering how similar sounds can be achieved. Sounds like FM and/or comb filtering to my ears. I've made some similar sounds (well, maybe closer to Errorsmith's early  works) using all sorts of modulated delays and reverbs, but I'm really curious to know how to get such sounds with FM.

 

Any advice / tips ?

 

u-he's Bazille and Zebra, as well as Aalto, are my weapons of choice for anything FM.

Thanks!

 

I doubt it is FM. I think it is more modern approach on additive synthesis in style of NI RAZOR etc. Iirc i saw a photo from Lazar's studio where you can see this stuff implemented on nord modular g2

GL seems to use additive techniques.

 

http://www.straylandings.co.uk/interviews/real-time-gabor-lazar-interview

Pretty sure you’re right telefunken. I was listening to that Errorsmith x Mark Fell EP a couple of days ago, and it sounded really similar indeed. Now I’m waiting for the new synth by Madrona Labs, Sumu, which is supposed ti be « additive synthesis meets FM », to test-drive it against Razor. I believe Zebra can also go in such territories. Anyway, I still have a lot to learn regarding FM.

  On 5/10/2018 at 9:55 AM, Nil said:

Pretty sure you’re right telefunken. I was listening to that Errorsmith x Mark Fell EP a couple of days ago, and it sounded really similar indeed. Now I’m waiting for the new synth by Madrona Labs, Sumu, which is supposed ti be « additive synthesis meets FM », to test-drive it against Razor. I believe Zebra can also go in such territories. Anyway, I still have a lot to learn regarding FM.

Hyped for Sumu, sadly it was not demoed at superbooth

Just sent an email to Randy at Madrona Labs regarding Sumu... now waiting for his answer.

And I’m so looking forward to having Zebra 3 in my arsenal. Urs & his team definitely code my favorite synths.

fuuuck, the sound design on Gabor Lazar's stuff is awesome.. kinda like taking SND's Atavism to another level

Yeah im wondering how close you can get to some of those sounds with the digitone and all the p locks, fx, env and lfos.  HOping pretty fucking close cause thats what im planning on going for somewhat once i get my hands on some cash for one 

  On 5/10/2018 at 9:38 AM, telefunken said:

 

  On 5/10/2018 at 7:31 AM, sweepstakes said:

There's also this hideously dated page that goes into the sideband maths that Entorwellian reminded me of when we were hanging out a few years back. I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the author but you'll know the disgusting orange background when you see it. I'll try to find that too. It's not so much about musical applications as some of the kind of math/harmonic/psychoacoustic aspects of it.

Truax! Boom: https://www.sfu.ca/~truax/fmtut.html

 

https://forum.watmm.com/topic/80256-fm-synthesis-techniques-anecdotes/?p=2054404

 

d'oh!

  On 5/10/2018 at 1:04 PM, Nil said:

Just sent an email to Randy at Madrona Labs regarding Sumu... now waiting for his answer.

And I’m so looking forward to having Zebra 3 in my arsenal. Urs & his team definitely code my favorite synths.

 

any news about Sumu ?

Randy simply answered that he plans to finish it by the end of the summer. Quality takes time, right?

Edited May 28, 2018 by Nil

  On 5/10/2018 at 9:38 AM, telefunken said:

 

  On 5/10/2018 at 7:31 AM, sweepstakes said:

There's also this hideously dated page that goes into the sideband maths that Entorwellian reminded me of when we were hanging out a few years back. I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the author but you'll know the disgusting orange background when you see it. I'll try to find that too. It's not so much about musical applications as some of the kind of math/harmonic/psychoacoustic aspects of it.

Truax! Boom: https://www.sfu.ca/~truax/fmtut.html

 

https://forum.watmm.com/topic/80256-fm-synthesis-techniques-anecdotes/?p=2054404

 

From a coding perspective, its not outdated at all. Even for programming a dx7 synth it's very useful.

 

Aside note: I've Dr. Truax a few times and I'll have some funny stories about him some day (i.e. he moonlights as a breeder for Best in Show dogs and had a cameo in the movie with the same name.). It ended up leading to a series of big "curb your enthusiasm" moments later on in life but so probably not share it on the forum here because I don't want it tracked down to here that I've been flinging mud lol. If you're here for another ae venue, sweepstakes, i'll have to tell you in person.

  On 5/28/2018 at 8:14 PM, Entorwellian said:

 

  On 5/10/2018 at 9:38 AM, telefunken said:

 

  On 5/10/2018 at 7:31 AM, sweepstakes said:

There's also this hideously dated page that goes into the sideband maths that Entorwellian reminded me of when we were hanging out a few years back. I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the author but you'll know the disgusting orange background when you see it. I'll try to find that too. It's not so much about musical applications as some of the kind of math/harmonic/psychoacoustic aspects of it.

Truax! Boom: https://www.sfu.ca/~truax/fmtut.html

 

https://forum.watmm.com/topic/80256-fm-synthesis-techniques-anecdotes/?p=2054404

 

From a coding perspective, its not outdated at all. Even for programming a dx7 synth it's very useful.

 

Aside note: I've Dr. Truax a few times and I'll have some funny stories about him some day (i.e. he moonlights as a breeder for Best in Show dogs and had a cameo in the movie with the same name.). It ended up leading to a series of big "curb your enthusiasm" moments later on in life but so probably not share it on the forum here because I don't want it tracked down to here that I've been flinging mud lol. If you're here for another ae venue, sweepstakes, i'll have to tell you in person.

 

lol, yes, you shared a bit of that with me - that guy sounds like a real character. Will definitely have to gossip more next time I'm up. By the way, that beer with the pig on it was probably 1 of my 2 favorite IPAs ever, right next to Bodhizafa. Wish I could remember what it was called!

 

Agree that the content isn't dated at all, was more referring to the disgusting color scheme. But you can't necessarily trust FM wizards who breed showdogs to also be UX experts.

https://www.plogue.com/products/chipsynth-portafm.html

 

Sounds surprisingly lush.

  On 5/29/2018 at 12:13 PM, Nil said:

https://www.plogue.com/products/chipsynth-portafm.html

 

Sounds surprisingly lush.

It sounds terrible. But exactly the sort of terrible that instantly takes me back to the keyboards we had at school for music lessons in the early 90s, so bought immediately ! (as I will with all the forthcoming Chipsynths)

  On 5/28/2018 at 10:32 AM, ieafs said:

cool dudes only alert

 

anyone have any experience with emulating the general midi set for soundblaster 16? i've got a fat2.op3 file which is supposedly the default windows set for the era i'm looking for (mid late 90s)... what can i open it with though? juceopl seems to only open singular .sbi patch files...?

I once used a DOS program called "MIDIer" in dosbox to play midi files with the equivalent OPL instruments, it was pretty neat.

You can use this program:

https://github.com/Wohlstand/OPL3BankEditor/releases

to load the bank and then save the individual instruments as .sbi files one by one.

To my ears, PortaFM oozes personality, and whenever you ignore the presets and go from the init patch it can sound quite amazing and fresh... even more when contrasting with other (characterful) synths.

 

I've just started that loop, in which I got PortaFM to sound like some weird pad halfway between what you'd hear on a UIQ record and a Gabor Lazar tune rather than 80's lo-fi synth pop. Yet it has a specific tone quite distinct from the heavily modulated FM dronish bassline that plays u-he Bazille (damn I love that synth) and the icy yet huge drums I've made with DrumSpillage 2.

 

I don't have any stakes in Plogue at all, nor I'm nostalgic of those preset fueled digital keyboards I played with when I was a kid/teen (I really am not!), I just think it's worth a serious try. Having the parameters exposed in an intuitive way + the sheer quality of the synth engine = great piece of code, and tons of fun.

 

I somehow agree that most (synth) plugins are overpriced though, even though I'd say that there's no correlation between the quality of a plugin and its price tag, at all. If I can afford it, I'll happily pay (nice) money for a plugin whenever it adds something inspiring and valuable to my arsenal.

  On 5/30/2018 at 12:07 PM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

i was thinking i'd buy it if it was $20 or so

It's $29, does that stretch to the 'or so'-ness ?

Got some money for work (which is not finished yet and actually not even started lol) and immediately started GASing over FS1R.   

  On 6/2/2018 at 10:18 AM, ieafs said:

cool dudes only update:

 

https://wohlsoft.ru/pgewiki/PGE_MusPlay

 

plays midi files with any weird variant of early FM/soundbaster/adlib/etc game soundbank

Wicked!

Gentlemen, pretty sure you can help. Am experimenting a lot with FM synthesis, getting some great results... but I’m still quite a novice here. I’m trying to reproduce the dissonant, industrial FM bells sounds Egyptrixx uses and abuses on A/B til Infinity. From what I’ve gathered, it’s all DX7.

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCWXIh7vWQTL6bRjqKa2XenkpraMcj6mY

 

The first sound you hear (and is all over the (awesome) album).

 

Thanks !

You should use non-integer modulator ratios to achieve such dissonant sounds

Thanks a lot! I’ll try with Dexed (and will try to recreate it afterwards with Bazille, hopefully to go way further). FM is still new to me, and I’m liking it more and more.

re: Gabor Lazar’s stabs. I know he uses AM synthesis (as discussed before), but got some similar (yet not as refined) sounds out of Bazille’s oscillators. Gosh I love that synth!

Thanks again for the info/tips, highly appreciated :)

Yeah that Gabor Lazar/Mark Fell sound is quite easy with FM, especially on the Digitone using the highpass filter with a touch of resonance. It's also super easy with Nanoloop 2 :D

Interesting read

NYZ - NTE GDN => Behind the scenes with the Yamaha FB-01