wtf is a person supposed to actually do about israel murdering hundreds of innocent civilians.

  On 7/24/2014 at 7:00 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 7/24/2014 at 6:57 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Boycotts are effective.

...in convincing more israelis that the world hates them and doesn't understand its needs to defend itself against hamas and thus turning them to vote for more right wing parties.

 

This is going to sound massively ignorant, but if one were to boycott Israel/Israeli goods, how would he actually be changing his daily life? Most people don't have any interest in visiting Israel in the first place, and the store shelves aren't exactly overflowing with Israeli made goods. I'm boycotting Israel by default. Does boycott Israel mean do whatever you were going to do anyway, but make sure to tweet it?

  On 7/24/2014 at 7:00 PM, chenGOD said:

 

1. Right, but there has to be some way to do it without violating international humanitarian law.

Which the Israeli army is (in terms of proportionality and distinction).

 

2. Also important to recognize the other side's argument: Hamas needs Israel to maintain legitimacy and power. By ceding to many of their demands, Israel would actually lessen the authority that Hamas currently enjoys.

 

Also: and interesting hypothesis - Israeli operations actually cause an increase in the number of rocket attacks. (study from 2012, interesting if anyone wants to add data to the current round)

http://mondoweiss.net/2012/11/dissecting-idf-propaganda-the-numbers-behind-the-rocket-attacks.html

1. does it? i've asked this question many times on reddit and here when this argument came up and got no sensible answer. what number of civilian casualties is a proper threshold of proportionality given the circumstances on the ground (the way hamas operates and the threat it poses, the density of gaza and so on) and did israel cross it?

2. that's an argument i use when i argue with israeli right wingers, but a sensible counter argument could be that hamas will actually gain legitimacy in the eyes of gazans because it forced its demands on israel.

3. mondoweiss is poop.

  On 7/24/2014 at 7:11 PM, doublename said:

 

  On 7/24/2014 at 7:00 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 7/24/2014 at 6:57 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Boycotts are effective.

...in convincing more israelis that the world hates them and doesn't understand its needs to defend itself against hamas and thus turning them to vote for more right wing parties.

 

This is going to sound massively ignorant, but if one were to boycott Israel/Israeli goods, how would he actually be changing his daily life? Most people don't have any interest in visiting Israel in the first place, and the store shelves aren't exactly overflowing with Israeli made goods. I'm boycotting Israel by default. Does boycott Israel mean do whatever you were going to do anyway, but make sure to tweet it?

 

Don't buy Sodastreams and you'll be on your way

  On 7/24/2014 at 6:15 PM, Bread said:

does eugene believe that Israelis have a divine, God given right to expand their settlements into Palestinian territories and pursue aggressive military action against Palestinians on behalf of their Jewish religion?

  On 7/24/2014 at 7:16 PM, Bechuga said:

 

  On 7/24/2014 at 7:11 PM, doublename said:

 

  On 7/24/2014 at 7:00 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 7/24/2014 at 6:57 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Boycotts are effective.

...in convincing more israelis that the world hates them and doesn't understand its needs to defend itself against hamas and thus turning them to vote for more right wing parties.

 

This is going to sound massively ignorant, but if one were to boycott Israel/Israeli goods, how would he actually be changing his daily life? Most people don't have any interest in visiting Israel in the first place, and the store shelves aren't exactly overflowing with Israeli made goods. I'm boycotting Israel by default. Does boycott Israel mean do whatever you were going to do anyway, but make sure to tweet it?

 

Don't buy Sodastreams and you'll be on your way

 

but “Soda Stream will do for soda what 3D printing did for assault rifles”

  On 7/24/2014 at 7:11 PM, doublename said:

 

  On 7/24/2014 at 7:00 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 7/24/2014 at 6:57 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Boycotts are effective.

...in convincing more israelis that the world hates them and doesn't understand its needs to defend itself against hamas and thus turning them to vote for more right wing parties.

 

This is going to sound massively ignorant, but if one were to boycott Israel/Israeli goods, how would he actually be changing his daily life? Most people don't have any interest in visiting Israel in the first place, and the store shelves aren't exactly overflowing with Israeli made goods. I'm boycotting Israel by default. Does boycott Israel mean do whatever you were going to do anyway, but make sure to tweet it?

 

I mean, the idea is that if tens of millions of people boycotted Israel (culturally, economically, etc), it would (probably) dissinsentive government aggression. The answer to the question of "what should I personally do?" should derive from "what should people in general do?"

...and in response to Eugene:

I guess there are two issues: 1) stopping aggression in the short-term, and 2) ensuring a political climate where aggression doesn't happen in the long-term.

The two issues might have contradictory solutions. I dunno. Maybe we should be focusing on the latter.

  On 7/24/2014 at 12:28 PM, messiaen said:

its incredibly frustrating, but it just seems they have an open ticket to drop rockets on schools and hospitals

make a video like this- except root for the "other team"

http://youtu.be/HHC8KC5cLs8

hi compson

I traveled round India for six months, and the Israelis all go there after national service and also many go there into their twenties/thirties. The continent is crawling with them. Because it's dirt cheap and they can get stoned out of their brain for pennies.

I know none of you have met me so you'd have to take this on face value, without going into some boring diatribe about my good nature, I'll just say you should never generalize human beings (as in what colour or creed they are). I don't give a fuck if you're purple skinned and from Lake Chad.

There is one exception though, I can quite cooly say I hate Israelis (yes I know hate is a strong word but I'm sticking with it), they're the most horrible people you could ever meet, in fact it would blow your mind how arrogant and pig-headed they are. So even though I know Hamas aren't angels I just presume they are a necessity living next door to them.

Here is a good one:

true knowledge about this cannot be had. maybe you can sort of know the truth if you are able to live in the region and maintain the integrity of an omnidirectionally compassionate mind.

but for 95% of people here, to be vehement in any direction (most of you have picked the uber trendy pro-palestine/abolish israel camp [though I know how annoying hyper zionists are as well]) is to be controlled by vastly powerful groups that you cannot begin to fathom or understand. you are a drone either way.

live your own life and spread pacifism. all you can know is what is before you. reject politics. turn off the news. seek a connection that is unmediated by greed.

  On 7/24/2014 at 9:46 PM, sheatheman said:

Here is a good one:

 

true knowledge about this cannot be had. maybe you can sort of know the truth if you are able to live in the region and maintain the integrity of an omnidirectionally compassionate mind.

 

but for 95% of people here, to be vehement in any direction (most of you have picked the uber trendy pro-palestine/abolish israel camp [though I know how annoying hyper zionists are as well]) is to be controlled by vastly powerful groups that you cannot begin to fathom or understand. you are a drone either way.

 

live your own life and spread pacifism. all you can know is what is before you. reject politics. turn off the news. seek a connection that is unmediated by greed.

That's all well and good, but that doesn't solve anything.

"Reject politics" is a non-sensical notion, like "Reject gravity." Politics happens no matter what.

And Pacifism is a great philosophy right up until there is someone attacking you. And then what?

i am parapolitical.

spread pacifism to those who would attack you.

it solves everything.

orange juice

  On 7/24/2014 at 10:03 PM, sheatheman said:

i am parapolitical.

 

spread pacifism to those who would attack you.

 

it solves everything.

So if someone breaks into your home with the intention of killing you...?

  On 7/24/2014 at 9:46 PM, sheatheman said:

Here is a good one:

 

true knowledge about this cannot be had. maybe you can sort of know the truth if you are able to live in the region and maintain the integrity of an omnidirectionally compassionate mind.

 

but for 95% of people here, to be vehement in any direction (most of you have picked the uber trendy pro-palestine/abolish israel camp [though I know how annoying hyper zionists are as well]) is to be controlled by vastly powerful groups that you cannot begin to fathom or understand. you are a drone either way.

 

live your own life and spread pacifism. all you can know is what is before you. reject politics. turn off the news. seek a connection that is unmediated by greed.

I'm not going to get into the israel/palestine discussion but I do feel inclined to point out this monstrosity. you "true knowledge about this cannot be had" and yet your next paragraph makes various claims to knowledge. good job dude.

  On 7/24/2014 at 9:28 PM, beerwolf said:

I traveled round India for six months, and the Israelis all go there after national service and also many go there into their twenties/thirties. The continent is crawling with them. Because it's dirt cheap and they can get stoned out of their brain for pennies.

 

I know none of you have met me so you'd have to take this on face value, without going into some boring diatribe about my good nature, I'll just say you should never generalize human beings (as in what colour or creed they are). I don't give a fuck if you're purple skinned and from Lake Chad.

 

There is one exception though, I can quite cooly say I hate Israelis (yes I know hate is a strong word but I'm sticking with it), they're the most horrible people you could ever meet, in fact it would blow your mind how arrogant and pig-headed they are. So even though I know Hamas aren't angels I just presume they are a necessity living next door to them.

an entire nationality that are the most horrible ppl anyone could ever meet... so horrible that it's a necessity to have a terror group living next store?

crawling with em, eh? like theyre animals/insects?

much more intense/passionate than fashionably hating americans or thinking french are arrogant, or not being a fan of pakistani immigrants eh?

and nothing to do with the fact that the one's you met were dumb kids getting stoned out of their mind as you say?

i think i caught your cool drift (:

i'm boycotting waves plug-ins. today i wanted to use the api2500 compressor but i used the glue instead with great results. feel that israel!

  On 7/24/2014 at 1:50 PM, eugene said:

murder is implying intentionality, are you saying that israel seeks out civilians with it's high tech equipment and bombs them ?

maybe not 'seeks out' civilians, but doesn't give a flying fuck hence : they intentionally murder civilians.

  On 7/24/2014 at 10:38 PM, xox said:

i'm boycotting waves plug-ins. today i wanted to use the api2500 compressor but i used the glue instead with great results. feel that israel!

lol, cmon you know you cant live without rbass or ren-eq (;

off topic, the glue is the shit!

  On 7/24/2014 at 10:38 PM, John Ehrlichman said:

 

  On 7/24/2014 at 1:50 PM, eugene said:

murder is implying intentionality, are you saying that israel seeks out civilians with it's high tech equipment and bombs them ?

maybe not 'seeks out' civilians, but doesn't give a flying fuck hence : they intentionally murder civilians.

 

if they didn't give a fuck they wouldn't go out of their way with warning fliers, phone calls, those small rockets that are meant to scare people away from the target, that's not something required by international law. but i'll give it to you in (some sense) - of course the idf gives much more of a fuck about own soldiers and civilians than enemies', so if it comes to whether shoot at some target that might be close to civilians or endangering own safety, they'll shoot, as any army in the world would.

  On 7/24/2014 at 10:15 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 7/24/2014 at 9:46 PM, sheatheman said:

Here is a good one:

 

true knowledge about this cannot be had. maybe you can sort of know the truth if you are able to live in the region and maintain the integrity of an omnidirectionally compassionate mind.

 

but for 95% of people here, to be vehement in any direction (most of you have picked the uber trendy pro-palestine/abolish israel camp [though I know how annoying hyper zionists are as well]) is to be controlled by vastly powerful groups that you cannot begin to fathom or understand. you are a drone either way.

 

live your own life and spread pacifism. all you can know is what is before you. reject politics. turn off the news. seek a connection that is unmediated by greed.

I'm not going to get into the israel/palestine discussion but I do feel inclined to point out this monstrosity. you "true knowledge about this cannot be had" and yet your next paragraph makes various claims to knowledge. good job dude.

 

true knowledge that informs one side or the other re: Israel v Palestine.

  On 7/24/2014 at 10:15 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 7/24/2014 at 9:46 PM, sheatheman said:

Here is a good one:

 

true knowledge about this cannot be had. maybe you can sort of know the truth if you are able to live in the region and maintain the integrity of an omnidirectionally compassionate mind.

 

but for 95% of people here, to be vehement in any direction (most of you have picked the uber trendy pro-palestine/abolish israel camp [though I know how annoying hyper zionists are as well]) is to be controlled by vastly powerful groups that you cannot begin to fathom or understand. you are a drone either way.

 

live your own life and spread pacifism. all you can know is what is before you. reject politics. turn off the news. seek a connection that is unmediated by greed.

I'm not going to get into the israel/palestine discussion but I do feel inclined to point out this monstrosity. you "true knowledge about this cannot be had" and yet your next paragraph makes various claims to knowledge. good job dude.

he's not pretending to present true knowledge™ though, i guess, just his opinion. should have put an "imo" at the end though.

Their who-has-a-bigger-penis contest got pretty much out of hand

obviously, the imo is universally implied. but mo is right.