my first drum machine

Just got my first drum machine. Had been aiming for a sampling drum machine like the electribe es-1, but lucked out and found a tr606 on Craigslist for $200, and jumped on it. Everything on it seems to work just fine, I find it very easy to get started with, and I plan to mod it down the road. But until then, complete noob question (as is everything I've been asking these days because I'm a rookie in music creation!), what's the best way to actually record from it if I don't own a computer (only have an iPhone and an old iPad that's basically a paperweight)? Is there a mixer that it'll best connect to? What should I do to be able to sync it to my korg electribe ea-1 and play them together and maybe record some of what I'm playing? Ideally there's a way to do this without spending much more $, but I'm open to hearing any creative ideas. Thanks for the patience with these rookie questions!

Edited March 21, 2016 by frankbooth

TR-606 does not have midi, instead it uses DIN sync, so to sync it with other gear (such as your EA-1) you will need a midi to DIN sync converter of some sort...there are a number of options available from dedicated converters, to gear that has both connections and can also be used as a converter (e.g. novation drum station). google midi to DIN sync converter for more info.

 

in terms of recording, you could certainly use your iPad and there are quite a few accessories available that allow direct audio recording and multitracking into an iPad (e.g. alesis IOMIX)...

 

you could also get a second hand 4 track cassette recorder for very little and record and multitrack into that...with the addition of some cheap FX pedals, you would be well on the way to lots of fun.

Edited March 21, 2016 by BCM

4 tracks are great fun. They overdrive nicely, often have varispeed controls (so you can mess with pitch and speed) and you can flip the tape over for reverse playback/recording.

I think recording into the iPad is the way I'll go, just because I have it already. So if i use a midi to din sync converter to connect the 606 to the ea-1, theoretically I can then get a midi to iPhone/iPad adaptor and go straight from the 606-synced ea1 into a daw app like GarageBand for recording/light mixing/sequencing. And audiobus from there for greater flexibility. Does that sound right, and a good idea? Or will this just not work? Any other app suggestions for recording and sequencing? Thanks all.

You can just manually sync them too if you want.

For recording you can get a cheap Boss multitrack or just stick with an old school 4-track machine.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Entorwellian

My first drum machine was volca beats by korg. It's very simple and affordable, has nice and powerful sounds for such a small thing. I also play guitar and have couple of HQ pedals, so I could route it through delay, ring modulator and distortion, I'd say it can be pretty damn good. Problem I found is, sounds are very limited, not much you can do after draining all creative power from it. So some people say sampler is a nice thing, I could agree with it, but it also depends which genre you want to play with it, drum machine is awesome for focused beat making, electronic-acid-live-overdoses, techno etc.

 

Just go check out video of most popular drum machine and imagine the possibilities, I think I found myself happy with samples, since you can get mostly everything, but you never know where live jam with the actual analogue beast will lead you.

My first drum machine was a Korg Electribe SX, which is a sampler actually, but works great as a drum machine.

4-tracks are awesome for making electronic music.

Great way to avoid the anti-septic sound of digital.

  On 3/22/2016 at 12:55 AM, frankbooth said:

I think recording into the iPad is the way I'll go, just because I have it already. So if i use a midi to din sync converter to connect the 606 to the ea-1, theoretically I can then get a midi to iPhone/iPad adaptor and go straight from the 606-synced ea1 into a daw app like GarageBand for recording/light mixing/sequencing. And audiobus from there for greater flexibility. Does that sound right, and a good idea? Or will this just not work? Any other app suggestions for recording and sequencing? Thanks all.

yeah this should work i reckon.. you'd need an ipad audio interface that also has midi (tascam iU2 seems to fit the bill) then you could use the ipad (with suitable software) as the master and send midi from that to your EA-1, which would then go into a midi/DIN sync converter and send sync messages to the 606. resulting in you pressing play on a suitable DAW on your ipad and the EA-1 and 606 starting and playing together, with everything tempo synced. then you'd need to route the actual audio out from the EA-1 and 606 back into the ipad audio interface for recording and multi tracking (tascam iU2 has 2 audio inputs, buy anything else though and you'll need a mixer).

 

all the above sounds reasonably expensive and a lot of ball-ache though... i reckon a cheap 4 track, some FX pedals and some way of converting midi/DIN sync (arturia beatstep?) would be cheaper and more fun. or if you're really against cassette 4 tracks, you can pick up digital multitrack recorders (which usually have midi so are easily syncable to everything else) pretty cheaply. look into the fostex DMT-8, or fostex MR8 perhaps...or there are some good Zoom multitrack recorders for not much money.

Edited March 23, 2016 by BCM

BCM and Sweepstakes, you're the men. Incredibly helpful. Guess I was just leaning on the iPad/iPhone route because that's what I have and I thought it might give me more flexibility. On the other hand going to cassette or even a digi multitrack could be easier, on top of teaching me more about composition through a more hands-on approach. Know this is slightly off topic but considering I'm so psyched to have the 606, just wondering a couple more things, and thought I'd ask them here before getting lost in forums in gearslutz or whatnot.

 

1) seems like I'm going to have to get a midi to din sync connector no matter what. Have my eye on the Kenton d-sync now. Assuming this'll take me into either the ea1, or if I prefer a mixer or 4 track recorder? Just wanted to make sure that was the right connection for any/all.

 

2) if I go cassette 4 track will it be easy to digitize?

 

3) at what point do I actually need a mixer?

 

Overall much love to this 606. Obviously I'm not technically inclined but I've been playing for it for 2 days only and find it to have a very small learning curve, and such great sound. There was some marker writing on the bottom and I covered it up with this for fun:

 

with regards to syncing a 4 track cassette recorder there are a couple of ways. you obviously want to get to a point where you can record say, a drum pattern into one track, then record a bassline (or whatever) on another track - but still keeping both in time and tempo synced. obviously you can simply set both the drum machine and (in your case) EA1 to the exact same tempo and attempt to hit record at the right time for the devices to stay in sequence with each other, but this is nigh on impossible and, even if it were (or you got lucky) then tiny fluctuations in the tempo on each machine will push things out of sync. this is in an example of when you are recording things one track at a time. Your options would be:

 

use something called Tape Sync which uses one of the 4 track's tracks to record an inaudible sync signal, and promts the 4 track to keep all tracks in sync with each other. Usually found on older hardware (e.g. Roland TR-626 drum machine has a tape sync output and a midi input alllwoing you to sync your 4 track to midi clock).

 

use MMC (midi machine control). this requires a a 4 track with a midi input and sends control messages such as stop, start and locate to the 4 track. most DAWs can send MMC messages.

 

puropsely don't sync anything and use this for wonky effects and continuously evolving tracks...

 

instead of a 4 track cassette recorder, use a digital multitrack which has midi in/out and can act as either master or slave device (probably the easiest option if you don't want to invest in a computer and DAW tbh). for example you would be able to use a fostex DMT-8 to send a master midi clock to the EA1, and then onto the 606 via a DIN sync converter. the DMT-8 has 8 seperate tracks and incorporates a mixer too (so gives you expandability when you get more gear). you would be able to route the audio out from each device back into the DMT-8 on seperate channels, plus EQ and mix on the DMT-8 (i think it might also have basic built in FX). when you hit play/record on the DMT-8 the EA1 and 606 would also start playing, in sync and you can then live mix the audio, tweak knobs and fade tracks in and out etc on the fly. you then easily export the audio out of the DMT-8 as a mixdown WAV file. you could then further process or edit this WAV fle on a computer if desired.

Edited March 23, 2016 by BCM

Mc303, but that is more multi purpose. First dedicated drum machine was a boss dr 202.

Been reading about techniques for the last couple days and actually found something that may be interesting if I go back the route of the iPhone/iPad. Have you seen the Apogee Jam? Saw a video on YouTube where a guy took his tr606 audio output straight to the apogee box which then went into the iPad. The apogee is like $100. In this scenario I could potentially record the 606 into GarageBand, audiobus it into whatever fx apps I'd like. Can also do whatever mixing and sequencing iOS apps offer - some of which I already have. Unless I'm greatly missing something here, it seems like a good option for being inexpensive and not having to buy more gear like the din sync converter, fx pedals, a mixer and a recorder (until I save more $, that is). The Apogee could also work for the EA-1 obviously in the same way too. I like the idea of mixing the old - I was born the year the 606 arrived and I'm old - with the new in iOS apps. Any support for that technique?

i've just looked into that and it doesn't offer any kind of sync capabilities - it's just an audio interface for the ipad and you will still end up with the timing issues when multitracking and using your 606 and EA1 together...what you could do i guess is either record small loops from the 606 into your ipad and timestretch them (with suitable software) to fit the overall tempo of your project, or just sample individual hits from the 606 and use it like that. really though you want to get to a proper setup with either a computer and DAW running the show and acting as master sending midi to your devices (converted to DIN sync for the 606) or a digital multitrack doing the same. this is maybe something to aim towards though and you could certainly have fun sampling phrases or hits from the 606 and EA1 and arranging them in suitable software on your ipad.

 

unfortunately, the hardware route can get quite expensive quite quickly and you really need to think about how your gear is going to actually work together. it's often the boring stuff that doesn't make any noises that's most important. i am of the opinion that starting a hardware setup is a bit like preparing a car for racing - you get the boring stuff right first - breaks, shocks, tyres etc before you go anywhere near the exciting engine. if people ever ask me, i recommend the first thing to get when starting a studio is a mixer, then proper monitors, then some way of multitracking audio, and only then something that actually makes any noise. it's also often easier when starting to only get gear that will easily sync together and has onboard midi, older gear which uses DIN sync or CV/gate etc can end up causing headaches when you try and use it with more modern equipment...just my thinking but these elements (i.e. recording, mixing, multitracking and keeping everything in sync) will become the core of everything you do and need to be in place before you can really start to make proper use of hardware imo.

 

i've just checked and you should definitely look into the arturia beatstep - this allows sync between midi and DIN sync and would be a way to control your EA1 and 606 and keep both in time...you could also sequence the EA1 directly from the beatstep. they're not very expensive and i imagine even more reasonable second hand.

Edited March 24, 2016 by BCM

I didn't see this suggested, but why do you need to sync it to your daw/4 track when you can sync the 606 directly to the ea1? Does it need to be locked to a grid if it is locked to itself?

 

I like working that way myself, off map/no net, etc.

you can't sync the 606 directly to the EA1...606 doesn't have midi

 

you could just try manually setting the tempos to match but this will be tricky seeing as the 606 has no display to indicate the exact tempo and even if they are both set to the same tempo the machines will not stay in sync. i said earlier that you could just go with this and not bother with sync at all, but i reckon that will get old pretty quickly and isn't a long term solution.

Edited March 24, 2016 by BCM

Assuming the din<--->midi issue is resolved

also, he needs some way of recording the results, hence DAW or multitrack requirement, hence wanting to sync the DAW/multitrack

I get it, I just don't think recording is synonymous with hardsync, for me anyway.

 

If he is midi/din synced and recording 4 simultaneous tracks, isn't that enough, especially for someone starting?

yeah sure that's an option, i don't know if cassette 4 tracks allow all tracks to be recorded simultaneously to be honest...you could do that with the right audio interface and/or mixer into the ipad though (or a DAW, digital mutitrack etc). also might just be an idea to get a standard cassette deck and record the stereo output from a mixer.

Not sure which direction I'm headed yet but this dialogue has expanded my knowledge base of music production tenfold. As someone who works in the film business, I actually think the analogy applies greatly here too. It's like I bought a vintage film camera but am looking for ways to shoot without a lighting package. So, need lots of natural light. And after developing and transferring the film to edit digitally, I'm considering ways to bring it to life through an iPhone as opposed to having a full Avid suite, throwing in visual fx, doing a sound mix on a stage, etc. There are filmmakers who successfully make feature films on their iPhone that play the festival circuit and get them the right attention, and the limitations of the device reveal what it's all about to begin with: telling a good story. If you tell a good story, the audience doesn't care if it's a huge Hollywood production, versus some local indie shot on black and white with unknown actors.

 

For me recording phrases through the apogee jam may just be a way to start getting ideas out and seeing what I aspire to musically. I did dig myself into this hole by starting with a 606 as opposed to something like a volca sample to begin with, but I just love that sound so much and want to have a little fun with it before I move on. But in all fairness on the 606, the sync issue is heard, and I can foresee that being a problem, which is why I'm sure I'll end up with the beatstep or d-sync or doepfer soon.

Edited March 24, 2016 by frankbooth

good analogy with the film thing :) yeah fuck it, you can have loads of fun with it on it's own and with a bit of creativity probably do a whole track using just the 606...record different phrases, whack loads mental effects on them (distortion on 606 toms is always fun) and arrange in a DAW...

Edited March 24, 2016 by BCM

  On 3/23/2016 at 5:30 PM, Kcinsu said:

Mc303, but that is more multi purpose. First dedicated drum machine was a boss dr 202.

 

 

I believe that Dr. Sample was my second.

Dr Sample!