On 4/15/2021 at 4:54 AM, cyanobacteria said:

youre right what the fuck am i doing here i should be reading marx think its time for a break

i recommend:

Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/28881.Lamb

it's quite a hilarious page turner. not nearly as dense as marx and quite endearing to our lord and savior. apparently jebus makes a wicked latte. 

@cyanobacteria seriously man, what is your end game in all of this? you obviously are well read and passionate toward the cause...but by spouting all this shit time and time again, what are you hoping to achieve here? bring awareness to what, fucking communism? are we like a test audience for you? 

alot of your points are valid, but I guess I just don't understand why you feel the need to jam this shit down our throats in practically every thread you enter. if you are serious about trying to sway people's viewpoints here, then brother, you are going about it entirely the wrong way.

and if you ask me, as noble as it's intention, true communism will never be attainable as envisioned due to human desire. it will always become some distorted version of itself because of human nature. we could nature vs. nurture this crap, sure, but I am strongly of the opinion that if we erased our brains and reverted back to cavemen, some motherfucker would end up trying to club some other motherfucker to death, and they wouldn't all be trying to work together to get the game fairly played for all...

welcome to the internet. 

  On 4/15/2021 at 4:56 AM, auxien said:

wow... i really think you need to reevaluate your assumptions about ...*checks notes*... literally the entirety of humanity's existence.

the only time I've ever wished to do harm to others is when I've been harmed by them.  and the reason they harmed me is because of pathologies likely instilled into them through the greater system.  I get it, you think humanity is all evil and hates each other and we need rulers at the top to keep us in line, but I don't think so.  people lived for millions of years without capitalism, even lesser species manage it, I think humanity can too.  bees achieved communism, ants did, it's called eusociality, be more positive

  On 4/15/2021 at 5:02 AM, zero said:

@cyanobacteria seriously man, what is your end game in all of this? you obviously are well read and passionate toward the cause...but by spouting all this shit time and time again, what are you hoping to achieve here? bring awareness to what, fucking communism? are we like a test audience for you? 

alot of your points are valid, but I guess I just don't understand why you feel the need to jam this shit down our throats in practically every thread you enter. if you are serious about trying to sway people's viewpoints here, then brother, you are going about it entirely the wrong way.

and if you ask me, as noble as it's intention, true communism will never be attainable as envisioned due to human desire. it will always become some distorted version of itself because of human nature. we could nature vs. nurture this crap, sure, but I am strongly of the opinion that if we erased our brains and reverted back to cavemen, some motherfucker would end up trying to club some other motherfucker to death, and they wouldn't all be trying to work together to get the game fairly played for all...

 

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I am just me, why aren't you asking yourself why you don't act how I do?  i like thinking about stuff, writing is how i think, and replying to people is how i write.  if you don't like it, don't read it.  furthermore, why aren't you asking the others in this thread why they post the way they do with their liberalism and capitalist apologism?  my posts may stand out since i am in the small handful of communists on watmm, it doesnt mean im doing anything more abnormal than those who i reply to or who reply to me.  i consider myself the normal well adjusted one who just wants to end all systems of exploitation and achieve communism.  it's literally obvious and clear to me., maybe you guys are set in your ways or privileged

its also unfair to say my posts are worthless just because theyre against the status quo.  imagine wasting time on worthless pro capitalism posts when we already have capitalism and can see how much it sucks fucking ass

  On 4/15/2021 at 5:02 AM, zero said:

@cyanobacteriawhat, fucking communism?

its the eternal question until it's decided which.  fascism and destruction or communism.  unfortunately many side with fascism presently

  On 4/15/2021 at 5:21 AM, cyanobacteria said:

the only time I've ever wished to do harm to others is when I've been harmed by them.

good for you, seriously.

  On 4/15/2021 at 5:21 AM, cyanobacteria said:

and the reason they harmed me is because of pathologies likely instilled into them through the greater system.

doubtful. and even if somehow this is true, you are only one example... who lives in a capitalist society. to assume that all evils done unto you are based solely on the societal bounds and therefor that's the entirety of all humanity's evils is pure narcissism. humans' darker tendencies would show themselves in literally any other situation too.

  On 4/15/2021 at 5:21 AM, cyanobacteria said:

I get it, you think humanity is all evil and hates each other and we need rulers at the top to keep us in line

i don't think that at all. don't put words in other's mouths.

  On 4/15/2021 at 5:21 AM, cyanobacteria said:

people lived for millions of years without capitalism, even lesser species manage it, I think humanity can too.  bees achieved communism, ants did, it's called eusociality, be more positive

so your idea of a utopia starts here: 

  On 4/15/2021 at 5:21 AM, cyanobacteria said:

I am just me, why aren't you asking yourself why you don't act how I do?  i like thinking about stuff, writing is how i think, and replying to people is how i write.  if you don't like it, don't read it.  furthermore, why aren't you asking the others in this thread why they post the way they do with their liberalism and capitalist apologism?  my posts may stand out since i am in the small handful of communists on watmm, it doesnt mean im doing anything more abnormal than those who i reply to or who reply to me.  i consider myself the normal well adjusted one who just wants to end all systems of exploitation and achieve communism.  it's literally obvious and clear to me., maybe you guys are set in your ways or privileged

its also unfair to say my posts are worthless just because theyre against the status quo.  imagine wasting time on worthless pro capitalism posts when we already have capitalism and can see how much it sucks fucking ass

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quite a bit of whataboutism here dude. classic technique of the communist master, Vlad Putin.

fair enough. you think communism is great, and most of us don't agree. as long as you get that you are not going to be viewed favorably by acting like your opinion is always correct, and all of us are always wrong, then keep on keepin on...

  On 4/15/2021 at 5:51 AM, zero said:

quite a bit of whataboutism here dude. classic technique of the communist master, Vlad Putin.

fair enough. you think communism is great, and most of us don't agree. as long as you get that you are not going to be viewed favorably by acting like your opinion is always correct, and all of us are always wrong, then keep on keepin on...

please be joking on that bolded part, and whataboutism is a nonsense word.  you literally asked "why do you type things" and I said "why do you type things? you guys are typing stuff too and there's way more of you" and you said whataboutism

if you don't think the abolition of private property, classes, and money, is a great thing, why do you want to uphold it? give a justification please.  I suspect your critiques are with the implementations you perceive to have been tried so far, or ideas you hold that make you think it will inevitably fail unless we remove private ownership of the means of production, wage labor, landlordism etc.  please justify these things lmao because they're absurd to me, beyond comprehension

  On 4/14/2021 at 8:50 PM, auxien said:

that's the thing...all comers here think they're bringing a 'natural balance' to things....they just see the 'natural' in differing ways

Exactly! We're all wired that way. Our view on things and our ideals tend to be the best, or else we wouldn't have them. Putting those ideals and beliefs in the proper perspective however... Well, I've hit my head against that wall quite regularly. You learn as you go, so to speak. And the learning never stops. I suffer my own limited perspective. But in a good way...hopefully 

I'm amenable to the idea that Capitalism represents a distinct mutation in human social relations which has set off a chain reaction of explosive (and yes, often harmful) side effects. I'd probably side with Ellul or Lewis Mumford & place this process further back than the emergence of Capitalism as a named thing, back either to the emergence of a particular linear/historical/progressivist worldview, or to the emergence of technological development itself. My understanding (perhaps flawed) is that for the vast majority of the time that biologically-modern humans have been around, we basically still lived like animals: some tool-usage & a few ritualistic innovations, but nothing terribly far removed from what has been observed with certain other species. And change came about extremely slowly, still more on the level of biological evolution rather than intellectual.

So, in my current understanding, something happened in the relatively recent past that disrupted a more cyclic relation to existence & replaced it with this rapid/linear process of technological & cultural development. And yes, I do think with the advent of that process there would have emerged all sorts of new forms of oppressive social structure, negative forms of human interaction, internal neurosis, depression, anxiety, existential ennui etc (all this along with the great artistic achievements, anything you might like about complex society etc). But I don't think that what it replaced was some kind of idyllic form of existence which would have been more communal & more in tune with the rhythm of the earth (imo maybe it was "better" in some ways but they still would have known pain, suffering, violence. And in any case they ended up turning into us so it's a bit of a moot point). And it's my suspicion that whatever model of social organization eventually comes to replace capitalism will alleviate some forms of social antagonism, inherit others (perhaps in mutated form), and invent entirely new ones which we in our current position can't even begin to conceptualize. Nothing in my life so far has given me the impression that human beings (individually or in groups) are pure good, or pure evil, or pure anything else - and (perhaps more importantly) there's limits to how far you can actually re-educate someone or radically alter their current worldview

https://frankspeech.com

  On 4/15/2021 at 6:50 AM, cyanobacteria said:

please be joking on that bolded part, and whataboutism is a nonsense word.

da, was sarcasm. everyone knows Vlad is a gazillionaire mafia kingpin, currently ruling over the bandit capitalist state called Russia. sure "whataboutism" is a silly word, but the behavior it describes is not far fetched. aversion to answering a question, diverting the discussion to something loosely related in order to lend support toward your argument...this is my understanding of it - and exactly what you were doing. the reference to Vlad was a slight jab at you, to show how you are following the playbook of a known capitalist. and one I might add that Vlad's notorious disciple, Dr. Dronald S. Trumpf, followed to a T... and those Q fucks do the same shit all the time.

  On 4/15/2021 at 6:50 AM, cyanobacteria said:

if you don't think the abolition of private property, classes, and money, is a great thing, why do you want to uphold it? give a justification please.  I suspect your critiques are with the implementations you perceive to have been tried so far, or ideas you hold that make you think it will inevitably fail unless we remove private ownership of the means of production, wage labor, landlordism etc.  please justify these things lmao because they're absurd to me, beyond comprehension

this ain't about me dude and what I believe. I was asking you to justify why you keep on going at this tired discussion time and time again. once again, you flipped it around to point the finger in my direction. case in point - whataboutism part deaux.

for the record, I don't think any of these "isms" are all that great, and subscribe to much more of a "go with the flow of the universe" mindset. I believe in much more hippy dippy bullshit than anything else. peace, nature, living in the woods far removed from others without government interference...this is the way to go, if you ask me. but it's only a fantasy. that will never happen for the vast majority of us, the same way communism is not going to ever be implemented in America.

  On 4/15/2021 at 1:23 PM, Cryptowen said:

Nothing in my life so far has given me the impression that human beings (individually or in groups) are pure good, or pure evil, or pure anything else - and (perhaps more importantly) there's limits to how far you can actually re-educate someone or radically alter their current worldview

  Quote

“If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn,

zeffpost starter pack:                    "achieve socialism"                  "achieve socialism by 2050"          "seize the means of production"              "crapitalism"        "cybersocialism"           "communism"               "communist"           "cumrade"                "cum"          "cybercum"              "marxist"             "marxism"               "marx"              "karl marx"           "uncle karl"            "karlito"            "karladdin"           

shit, i forgot to add fascism and bourgeoisie. and probably a bunch of other stuff 

  On 4/15/2021 at 4:02 PM, brian trageskin said:

shit, i forgot to mention fascism and bourgeoisie. and probably a bunch of other stuff 

Also, the “hot Karl”

  On 4/15/2021 at 4:13 PM, diatoms said:

                                                                                       

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perhaps the real solution is to more vigorously resume the late-00s indie scene's failed attempt to make all of life feel like the art to a boards of canada album

  On 4/15/2021 at 3:45 PM, brian trageskin said:

cybercum

cybercum is like that one issue of swamp thing where swamp thing wants to find a good substitute for the sex he is physically incapable of having with his new wife, so he grows a magical psychedelic fruit out of his own back & when she eats it she goes on a lengthy hallucinagenic journey through a realm of pure organic pleasure. cybercum is like that but it mostly just contains a code to download the newest U2 album to one's orifice of choice

  On 4/12/2021 at 10:03 PM, Nebraska said:

now that's what i call "moving on up"

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An email that the BLM organization put out this morning.

  Quote

[Name],

You may have seen the recent, misleading stories about property owned by our executive director, Patrisse Cullors. The news coverage and social media posts contain falsehoods and disinformation generated and hyped up by right-wing zealots at the National Legal and Policy Center. Our attorneys have sent Cease & Desist letters to NLPC to demand they correct the record and stop their destructive crusade.

To set the record straight, as volunteer Executive Director, Patrisse Cullors does not receive a salary or benefits from Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation.

She has received a total of $120,000 since the organization's inception in 2013, for duties such as serving as spokesperson and engaging in political education work. Patrisse did not receive any compensation from the organization after 2019.

As a registered 501c3 non-profit organization, Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation cannot and did not commit any organizational resources toward the purchase of personal property by any employee or volunteer. Any insinuation or assertion to the contrary is categorically false.

To be clear, this is an orchestrated campaign by NLPC and is a direct attack on our movement. They feel threatened by our work to end police violence and white supremacy and will do anything to create division and undermine us as an organization and the larger movement.

[Name], we want to make sure our supporters are aware of this and correct any lies or misconceptions you may have read.

We will keep you updated and appreciate your continued support.

In love and solidarity,

Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation

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^yeah the originally-linked article did its best to hide the fact that she'd just signed a deal with Warner Media for who knows how much money. 

this was unexpected:

  On 4/15/2021 at 1:23 PM, Cryptowen said:

I'm amenable to the idea that Capitalism represents a distinct mutation in human social relations which has set off a chain reaction of explosive (and yes, often harmful) side effects. I'd probably side with Ellul or Lewis Mumford & place this process further back than the emergence of Capitalism as a named thing, back either to the emergence of a particular linear/historical/progressivist worldview, or to the emergence of technological development itself. My understanding (perhaps flawed) is that for the vast majority of the time that biologically-modern humans have been around, we basically still lived like animals: some tool-usage & a few ritualistic innovations, but nothing terribly far removed from what has been observed with certain other species. And change came about extremely slowly, still more on the level of biological evolution rather than intellectual.

So, in my current understanding, something happened in the relatively recent past that disrupted a more cyclic relation to existence & replaced it with this rapid/linear process of technological & cultural development. And yes, I do think with the advent of that process there would have emerged all sorts of new forms of oppressive social structure, negative forms of human interaction, internal neurosis, depression, anxiety, existential ennui etc (all this along with the great artistic achievements, anything you might like about complex society etc). But I don't think that what it replaced was some kind of idyllic form of existence which would have been more communal & more in tune with the rhythm of the earth (imo maybe it was "better" in some ways but they still would have known pain, suffering, violence. And in any case they ended up turning into us so it's a bit of a moot point). And it's my suspicion that whatever model of social organization eventually comes to replace capitalism will alleviate some forms of social antagonism, inherit others (perhaps in mutated form), and invent entirely new ones which we in our current position can't even begin to conceptualize. Nothing in my life so far has given me the impression that human beings (individually or in groups) are pure good, or pure evil, or pure anything else - and (perhaps more importantly) there's limits to how far you can actually re-educate someone or radically alter their current worldview

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i agree with this and have anti-civ and neo-luddite sympathies.  indeed as the mode of production is advanced beyond new contradictions come into play.  i personally think the next contradiction upon achieving communism will be a literal humans vs machines scenario but nothing as cheesy as the matrix, potentially also a space oriented contradiction regarding class issues that arise in space colonies and people living on space ships because of their lack of control over the ships as opposed to remote control centers.  even on planets, a contradiction more similar to multi-generational knowledge of the machines issues where people forget how they work and construct myths, and we become even more enslaved.  i think we need to really decentralize things so that if humanity split in half it would all work fine

communocryptism pls