Why do most electronic producers have macbook pros?

the new track pad on the mcbook pro is actually easier to use than the mouse. And I hated track pads

  On 5/2/2017 at 7:43 PM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/2/2017 at 7:42 PM, BCM said:

lol i've got a thinkpad as my works laptop. it's fucking terrible.

lol what series is it?

 

er, it's a T440 i5 job...couple years old.  trackpad broke after about 6 weeks, got that annoying shaky mouse pointer thing going on.  whole thing feels cheap and the experience is mostly one of annoyance.

  On 5/2/2017 at 9:16 PM, xox said:

every non mac laptop is ugly compared to mac :)

t. Someone who's never seen a Razer

  On 5/2/2017 at 10:03 PM, BCM said:

 

  On 5/2/2017 at 7:43 PM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/2/2017 at 7:42 PM, BCM said:

lol i've got a thinkpad as my works laptop. it's fucking terrible.

lol what series is it?

 

 

 

er, it's a T440 i5 job...couple years old.  trackpad broke after about 6 weeks, got that annoying shaky mouse pointer thing going on.  whole thing feels cheap and the experience is mostly one of annoyance.

 

Genuinely surprised to hear this. Except for the troubles with the trackpad - ThinkPad trackpads have always been shite.

But their build quality is usually top notch - magnesium chassis, usually. If your experience is the norm, then it may be that Lenovo's quality has dropped sharply. That's disappointing.

  On 5/2/2017 at 10:16 PM, Rotwang said:

 

  On 5/2/2017 at 9:16 PM, xox said:

every non mac laptop is ugly compared to mac :)

t. Someone who's never seen a Razer

i've actually been looking at the razer line as i'd like something that's capable of decent gaming performance but i'm kinda wary of their long term reliability. they did seem really nice (checked them at the microsoft store) except for the enormous bezel. on the 13" the screen is actually way smaller than you'd think because there's like a 3/4" bezel around the entire thing -_-

and the stupid ouroboros light would need to be covered by some kind of sticker

  On 5/3/2017 at 5:41 PM, juiceciuj said:

 

  On 5/2/2017 at 10:16 PM, Rotwang said:

 

  On 5/2/2017 at 9:16 PM, xox said:

every non mac laptop is ugly compared to mac :)

t. Someone who's never seen a Razer

i've actually been looking at the razer line as i'd like something that's capable of decent gaming performance but i'm kinda wary of their long term reliability. they did seem really nice (checked them at the microsoft store) except for the enormous bezel. on the 13" the screen is actually way smaller than you'd think because there's like a 3/4" bezel around the entire thing -_-

 

and the stupid ouroboros light would need to be covered by some kind of sticker

 

And this is, legitimately, the classiest that PC gaming manufacturers get.

I bought a second hand win xp desktop in 2012, which had been built in 2007 based on a soundonsound build-your-own-pc-for-music article (I only bought it because I needed a machine with PCI slots which werent on any new machines by then). It still absolutely kicks the shit out of my gfs macbook pro and my own lenovo yoga pro 2 laptop for making music. How is that possible?

  On 5/3/2017 at 5:41 PM, juiceciuj said:

 

  On 5/2/2017 at 10:16 PM, Rotwang said:

 

  On 5/2/2017 at 9:16 PM, xox said:

every non mac laptop is ugly compared to mac :)

t. Someone who's never seen a Razer

i've actually been looking at the razer line as i'd like something that's capable of decent gaming performance but i'm kinda wary of their long term reliability. they did seem really nice (checked them at the microsoft store) except for the enormous bezel. on the 13" the screen is actually way smaller than you'd think because there's like a 3/4" bezel around the entire thing -_-

 

and the stupid ouroboros light would need to be covered by some kind of sticker

 

I hear it runs Tetris!

lel

PCs are clearly more idm

https://i.imgur.com/CLJmBN9.gifv

was really hoping the surface laptop would end up fitting my needs at a reasonable price (since it's not relying on some stupid 2in1 gimmick). instead they decided to go toe to toe with mac in the grossly underpowered and overpriced "premium" laptop shit. fucking alcantera covered keyboard? i just want a decent looking laptop with a gtx1060 in it. i'd be willing to pay a decent premium too for it to not be some hideous monstrosity but not like, $1500 extra. specs wise this thing destroys every macbook/surface for $1100 but it's fucking enourmous and has "republic of gamers" stamped on the fucking lid: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-17-3-laptop-intel-core-i7-12gb-memory-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1060-1tb-hard-drive-128gb-solid-state-drive-black-anodized-aluminum/5580042.p?ref=8575135&loc=2c87359e30ff11e7a1ac367c4edafe320INT&acampID=2c87359e30ff11e7a1ac367c4edafe320INT&skuId=5580042

  On 5/2/2017 at 4:57 PM, Kidrodi said:

Is there a decent way to make music on Linux btw? I've tried Renoise but trackers aren't my thing

It seems you can run Live on a Linux. Supposedly also the Mac version of Live runs through the Wine compatibility layer thing, so potentially this means you should get the same performance/latency/whatever out of it.

For a time I had an idea to run Live on a Raspberry Pi like this, so you could prepare some project with minimal effects and get a powerful MIDI looping/sequencing system, but since the Pi has different processor architecture, it's probably not possible.

eh. just scooped the late 2016 14" razer blade for $1300 =\

  Quote

Intel Core i7-6700HQ (2.6GHz) Processor
16 GB DDR4 RAM
512 GB Solid State Drive
14" in screen (1920x1080)
NVIDIA GTX 1060 6GB Graphics Card

and it actually has ports too

now time to find a sticker...

  On 5/8/2017 at 3:22 AM, thawkins said:

Supposedly also the Mac version of Live runs through the Wine compatibility layer thing, so potentially this means you should get the same performance/latency/whatever out of it.

This isn't possible, since WINE is to do with the Windows compatibility layer and nothing at all to do with macOS.

Also using WINE for music production (unless there have been major strides recently) introduces latency and performance issues.

  On 5/8/2017 at 5:04 AM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 3:22 AM, thawkins said:

Supposedly also the Mac version of Live runs through the Wine compatibility layer thing, so potentially this means you should get the same performance/latency/whatever out of it.

This isn't possible, since WINE is to do with the Windows compatibility layer and nothing at all to do with macOS.

 

Also using WINE for music production (unless there have been major strides recently) introduces latency and performance issues.

 

There is a WINE version for macOS, which I use to run Windows games like Icewind Dale on my macOS.

Also I am pretty sure that the Ableton Live.app contains some wine executables, unless I remember wrong. In any case I'm sure the process of getting Live to run on Linux will be exactly as messed up and complicated as doing anything pro-audio related on Linux, but I think it's definitely possible.

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:28 AM, thawkins said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 5:04 AM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 3:22 AM, thawkins said:

Supposedly also the Mac version of Live runs through the Wine compatibility layer thing, so potentially this means you should get the same performance/latency/whatever out of it.

This isn't possible, since WINE is to do with the Windows compatibility layer and nothing at all to do with macOS.

 

Also using WINE for music production (unless there have been major strides recently) introduces latency and performance issues.

 

 

There is a WINE version for macOS, which I use to run Windows games like Icewind Dale on my macOS.

Also I am pretty sure that the Ableton Live.app contains some wine executables, unless I remember wrong. In any case I'm sure the process of getting Live to run on Linux will be exactly as messed up and complicated as doing anything pro-audio related on Linux, but I think it's definitely possible.

 

Then your sentence is wrong. you said "Supposedly also the Mac version of Live runs through the Wine compatibility layer thing", implying that the Macintosh version of Live can run via WINE.

I know there is WINE for Macintosh, there is also a commercial package called Crossover that makes it easier to set up and use. 

But neither allow you to run Macintosh binaries via WINE, as WINE doesn't have anything to do with Macintosh binaries, regardless of whether WINE is running under macOS or Linux.

Linux and audio is definitely a ball ache, that's for sure.

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:41 AM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:28 AM, thawkins said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 5:04 AM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 3:22 AM, thawkins said:

Supposedly also the Mac version of Live runs through the Wine compatibility layer thing, so potentially this means you should get the same performance/latency/whatever out of it.

This isn't possible, since WINE is to do with the Windows compatibility layer and nothing at all to do with macOS.

 

Also using WINE for music production (unless there have been major strides recently) introduces latency and performance issues.

 

 

There is a WINE version for macOS, which I use to run Windows games like Icewind Dale on my macOS.

Also I am pretty sure that the Ableton Live.app contains some wine executables, unless I remember wrong. In any case I'm sure the process of getting Live to run on Linux will be exactly as messed up and complicated as doing anything pro-audio related on Linux, but I think it's definitely possible.

 

Then your sentence is wrong. you said "Supposedly also the Mac version of Live runs through the Wine compatibility layer thing", implying that the Macintosh version of Live can run via WINE.

 

I know there is WINE for Macintosh, there is also a commercial package called Crossover that makes it easier to set up and use. 

 

But neither allow you to run Macintosh binaries via WINE, as WINE doesn't have anything to do with Macintosh binaries, regardless of whether WINE is running under macOS or Linux.

 

Linux and audio is definitely a ball ache, that's for sure.

 

Sorry, I was trying to say that the Mac version of Live is actually the Windows version plus a custom installation of WINE. At least this is what I remember from the article about running Live on Linux that I read last year. Can't find it anymore, unfortunately.

  On 5/8/2017 at 7:19 AM, thawkins said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:41 AM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 6:28 AM, thawkins said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 5:04 AM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 3:22 AM, thawkins said:

Supposedly also the Mac version of Live runs through the Wine compatibility layer thing, so potentially this means you should get the same performance/latency/whatever out of it.

This isn't possible, since WINE is to do with the Windows compatibility layer and nothing at all to do with macOS.

 

Also using WINE for music production (unless there have been major strides recently) introduces latency and performance issues.

 

 

There is a WINE version for macOS, which I use to run Windows games like Icewind Dale on my macOS.

Also I am pretty sure that the Ableton Live.app contains some wine executables, unless I remember wrong. In any case I'm sure the process of getting Live to run on Linux will be exactly as messed up and complicated as doing anything pro-audio related on Linux, but I think it's definitely possible.

 

Then your sentence is wrong. you said "Supposedly also the Mac version of Live runs through the Wine compatibility layer thing", implying that the Macintosh version of Live can run via WINE.

 

I know there is WINE for Macintosh, there is also a commercial package called Crossover that makes it easier to set up and use. 

 

But neither allow you to run Macintosh binaries via WINE, as WINE doesn't have anything to do with Macintosh binaries, regardless of whether WINE is running under macOS or Linux.

 

Linux and audio is definitely a ball ache, that's for sure.

 

Sorry, I was trying to say that the Mac version of Live is actually the Windows version plus a custom installation of WINE. At least this is what I remember from the article about running Live on Linux that I read last year. Can't find it anymore, unfortunately.

 

Definitely calling bullshit on this, for the simple fact that applications that are run in WINE cannot directly access CoreAudio, nor can they see AU plugins.

  On 5/8/2017 at 7:25 AM, oscillik said:

Definitely calling bullshit on this, for the simple fact that applications that are run in WINE cannot directly access CoreAudio, nor can they see AU plugins.

 

 

But if it's a custom version of WINE which has those features? It sounds weird but maybe it's less work for Ableton to maintain the code if they only had a Windows version and used the WINE trick to maintain macOS compatibility. But then I don't know jack shit about how difficult it is to target both Windows and Mac if the software is as complex as Live...

  On 5/8/2017 at 7:35 AM, thawkins said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 7:25 AM, oscillik said:

Definitely calling bullshit on this, for the simple fact that applications that are run in WINE cannot directly access CoreAudio, nor can they see AU plugins.

 

 

But if it's a custom version of WINE which has those features? It sounds weird but maybe it's less work for Ableton to maintain the code if they only had a Windows version and used the WINE trick to maintain macOS compatibility. But then I don't know jack shit about how difficult it is to target both Windows and Mac if the software is as complex as Live...

 

I looks like you're confusing WINE with this which says in the title that it's WINE-like, in the sense that it's a compatibility layer for Linux that allows macOS binaries to be run.

It would make absolutely no sense for Ableton to develop the macOS version of Live to rely on WINE, because that would be yet another abstraction layer and would negatively impact performance. The only tricks there could be which would allow a Windows binary, running via WINE in macOS, to see the AU plugins that are only available through macOS natively would be if there was some kind of AU to VST wrapper. And then you've got yet another abstraction layer.

This is a massive clusterfuck of abstraction, and you're adding latency each time.

  On 5/8/2017 at 7:39 AM, oscillik said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 7:35 AM, thawkins said:

 

  On 5/8/2017 at 7:25 AM, oscillik said:

Definitely calling bullshit on this, for the simple fact that applications that are run in WINE cannot directly access CoreAudio, nor can they see AU plugins.

 

 

But if it's a custom version of WINE which has those features? It sounds weird but maybe it's less work for Ableton to maintain the code if they only had a Windows version and used the WINE trick to maintain macOS compatibility. But then I don't know jack shit about how difficult it is to target both Windows and Mac if the software is as complex as Live...

 

I looks like you're confusing WINE with this which says in the title that it's WINE-like, in the sense that it's a compatibility layer for Linux that allows macOS binaries to be run.

 

It would make absolutely no sense for Ableton to develop the macOS version of Live to rely on WINE, because that would be yet another abstraction layer and would negatively impact performance. The only tricks there could be which would allow a Windows binary, running via WINE in macOS, to see the AU plugins that are only available through macOS natively would be if there was some kind of AU to VST wrapper. And then you've got yet another abstraction layer.

 

This is a massive clusterfuck of abstraction, and you're adding latency each time.

 

No, what I want to say is that I think the Windows and macOS binaries of Live are mostly identical and that the macOS version of Live uses an Ableton-maintained custom version of WINE. Thus only one abstraction layer at most.

Of course you're right that it would include yet another abstraction layer, but the alternative is having to maintain and develop two separate Live versions for Windows and macOS. If the abstraction layer only adds 1-2ms to some latencies, then I would certainly choose that over having separate versions of the main Live code. I think it's also very possible that there's some unified layer for plugins in Live anyway, because there's VST, VST3, AU, and at some point Live needs to just think of those separate things as simply Plugins with I/O and parameters. So maybe there will always be an abstraction layer. 

As I said I'm pretty sure that if you look in the Ableton Live.app there are WINE executables in it somewhere. I'm beginning to think I may be full of shit, but I can't check now.. :)

absolutely no references to WINE inside Ableton Live as seen here

The only references to any Windows binaries inside the macOS app bundle is to do with Python, and seems to be standard stuff that is included with the Python libraries

absolutely no other Windows binaries are inside Ableton Live.

Damn, I guess this post is full of shit as well then. Sorry about that.

Yep certainly looks like it! The speed difference would've been phenomenal between the pc and Mac ports if that was the case :)

  On 5/8/2017 at 9:08 AM, thawkins said:

Damn, I guess this post is full of shit as well then. Sorry about that.

Yep, he's definitely full of shit. You can see that people are calling him out on it, and he just can't back up his claims.

While his theory would likely be plausible for some other kind of application (like, a word processor or something else that doesn't require low latency responses), it would just be frustrating for end users of something that requires instant feedback. Not to mention what I've already said about any Windows applications running under WINE on macOS do not directly have access to CoreAudio or AU plugins - any applications running under WINE would talk the Windows audio subsystem only, and audio from this would be sent to CoreAudio as an abstracted layer which the Windows application has no knowledge of or understanding of how to communicate with.

For starters, you'd be able to instantly tell that something was running under a WINE compatibility layer from the way the window elements look as they look unmistakably like Windows 2000. Even when WINE is used in Linux, the window elements look like bog standard Windows apps. Not even Crossover, which is the only 'prettified' way to use WINE on macOS can make the Windows widgets look like macOS widgets.