Earth Entering New Extinction Phase

If you don't care about the future of the planet, why would you be respectful of it now?

Must be the remnants of that probably still flammable vindaloo I had last week finally hitting the oceans. Foul? Yes, new extinction phase? Probably not. I can't help but feel a little flattered though the real credit goes to the glorious

Bengal Brasserie on Springbank Road.

You all think and do whatever you want. Just leave the kids out of it. You have no right to put new beings into this because they have no choice. They are never asked. They are always forced into it. Do you really consider telling kids (living beings actually manipulated and transformed by their surroundings) how to live and how to behave and what to do to be a right thing? Do you consider to be a right thing that you force somebody into something? I don't. A non-existing being is a being without problems, without fears, without suffering. There is absolutely no risk for a non-existent, yet there is many risks and guaranteed suffering for the existing ones. Non-existence is the ultimate state of peace. If you breed, you do suffering to others without asking them for their opinions. You maintain the circle of non-sense just for your fun and comfort while the side-product suffers. Fucked up, if you ask me.

There is no need to breed. At all. You won't see the results of your decisions for too long anyway. So is it worth suffering of others? I say no.

And it is not about general happiness/unhappiness of someone's life because each single living human being experiences some kind of suffering sometimes. The life is not worth even the tiniest amount of suffering it brings because it can be completely prevented without any loss at all. If death devalue everything a living being lives for (the state of mind), it will zero your "achievements" too. Yes, it will zero the suffering too but why need to die anyway in order not to suffer? Just don't get born in the first place.

I am so tired of explaining this.

Peace all.

  On 6/25/2015 at 12:20 AM, Jev said:

You all think and do whatever you want. Just leave the kids out of it. You have no right to put new beings into this because they have no choice. They are never asked. They are always forced into it. Do you really consider telling kids (living beings actually manipulated and transformed by their surroundings) how to live and how to behave and what to do to be a right thing? Do you consider to be a right thing that you force somebody into something? I don't. A non-existing being is a being without problems, without fears, without suffering. There is absolutely no risk for a non-existent, yet there is many risks and guaranteed suffering for the existing ones. Non-existence is the ultimate state of peace. If you breed, you do suffering to others without asking them for their opinions. You maintain the circle of non-sense just for your fun and comfort while the side-product suffers. Fucked up, if you ask me.

 

There is no need to breed. At all. You won't see the results of your decisions for too long anyway. So is it worth suffering of others? I say no.

 

And it is not about general happiness/unhappiness of someone's life because each single living human being experiences some kind of suffering sometimes. The life is not worth even the tiniest amount of suffering it brings because it can be completely prevented without any loss at all. If death devalue everything a living being lives for (the state of mind), it will zero your "achievements" too. Yes, it will zero the suffering too but why need to die anyway in order not to suffer? Just don't get born in the first place.

 

I am so tired of explaining this.

 

Peace all.

There is always Life; physicality or not. Consciousness is infinite, and suffering is merely a tiny slice of the full-gamut of human emotions. It is a misunderstanding of Buddhism that suffering is an emotional-definite and ever-existing consequence of this projection of physical reality. Nirvana has no suffering, Zen has no suffering-- even in the most simplistic sense, sleep generally is pleasant and an escape from all that we can consider suffering.

Suffering is merely the other side of the coin in this primarily dualistic projected reality, and if its existence in concept is required for functioning of this projection, that does not mean that emotionally attaching to the concept is required.

We can all be happy, and we can all spread happiness and human strength; the strength to follow the paths that one truly has in their hearts, disregarding the illusion of future and finding peace in following one's path in the ever-present.

If anything, the concept of suffering is an indication that one has a sense of direction in how one chooses to lead and perceive their lives. If you so believe in the truth of suffering, realize that it only exists in dualistic perception of this projected reality. If you are feeling a deep and harsh suffering within you, it is only because you have the capacity to perceive the other end of the gamut.

May you find strength and happiness in your life, and may you follow your highest intentions. But please, don't be mistaken and assume that suffering in its emotional-attachment form is a requirement of physical life-- it is conceptually required and in most cases required for path direction, but in its most harmonious usage, it is merely a tool meant for personal growth through self-observation, which can be used to refine and reveal true happiness.

Every single one of us has the greatest of happiness within us. But it is only through forgiving and loving the self, that this happiness can be allowed to run free. Perceive, don't judge. Act, don't complain. Smile, and realize that every smile is not merely an experience of fleeting happiness-- every sincere and heartfelt smile is the uncovering of doubt and fear, becoming one with acceptance of the moment, and revelation of the human quality of happiness that- behind our weaknesses- is ever-present and shines eternally.

  On 6/25/2015 at 12:20 AM, Jev said:

You all think and do whatever you want. Just leave the kids out of it. You have no right to put new beings into this because they have no choice. They are never asked. They are always forced into it. Do you really consider telling kids (living beings actually manipulated and transformed by their surroundings) how to live and how to behave and what to do to be a right thing? Do you consider to be a right thing that you force somebody into something? I don't. A non-existing being is a being without problems, without fears, without suffering. There is absolutely no risk for a non-existent, yet there is many risks and guaranteed suffering for the existing ones. Non-existence is the ultimate state of peace. If you breed, you do suffering to others without asking them for their opinions. You maintain the circle of non-sense just for your fun and comfort while the side-product suffers. Fucked up, if you ask me.

 

There is no need to breed. At all. You won't see the results of your decisions for too long anyway. So is it worth suffering of others? I say no.

 

And it is not about general happiness/unhappiness of someone's life because each single living human being experiences some kind of suffering sometimes. The life is not worth even the tiniest amount of suffering it brings because it can be completely prevented without any loss at all. If death devalue everything a living being lives for (the state of mind), it will zero your "achievements" too. Yes, it will zero the suffering too but why need to die anyway in order not to suffer? Just don't get born in the first place.

 

I am so tired of explaining this.

 

Peace all.

While I agree that existence is pain and suffering cannot end until the universe ceases to be, and I'm surely never going to have children of my own ever in my life, it doesn't really matter that life continues to exist, because regardless of how long it persists, it will inevitably end at some point and when that happens time will be no more and it will be as if nothing ever happened. In the end, everything that happens here was all meaningless. Thus, paraphrasing Crowley and Ivan Karamazov, everything is lawful.

this place gets more autistic by the day.

.

  On 6/20/2015 at 5:16 AM, messiaen said:

honeslty dont care. humans as an entire species have proven themselves mostly incapable of fitting into the food chain on a polite, sustainable level like every other animal does, and therefore if we wipe ourselves out it will be entirely justified.

... and along with the rest of living organisms on this planet. Funny how killing humans is extremely sinful but everything else is trivial. What does it mean for an entire species to have self-awareness? Religion only argue about how individuals should act, but should an entire species be condemned for killing an entire planet?

  On 6/25/2015 at 12:20 AM, Jev said:

You all think and do whatever you want. Just leave the kids out of it. You have no right to put new beings into this because they have no choice. They are never asked. They are always forced into it. Do you really consider telling kids (living beings actually manipulated and transformed by their surroundings) how to live and how to behave and what to do to be a right thing? Do you consider to be a right thing that you force somebody into something? I don't. A non-existing being is a being without problems, without fears, without suffering. There is absolutely no risk for a non-existent, yet there is many risks and guaranteed suffering for the existing ones. Non-existence is the ultimate state of peace. If you breed, you do suffering to others without asking them for their opinions. You maintain the circle of non-sense just for your fun and comfort while the side-product suffers. Fucked up, if you ask me.

 

There is no need to breed. At all. You won't see the results of your decisions for too long anyway. So is it worth suffering of others? I say no.

 

And it is not about general happiness/unhappiness of someone's life because each single living human being experiences some kind of suffering sometimes. The life is not worth even the tiniest amount of suffering it brings because it can be completely prevented without any loss at all. If death devalue everything a living being lives for (the state of mind), it will zero your "achievements" too. Yes, it will zero the suffering too but why need to die anyway in order not to suffer? Just don't get born in the first place.

 

I am so tired of explaining this.

 

Peace all.

Earlier in this thread you ask us to leave religion out of it, and now you bring in on of the core tenets of one of the major religions on earth, that all life is suffering. You can't have your cake and eat it too. And anyhow, what's wrong with suffering? You have to think about the marginal utility of experience. You state that life is not worth the tiniest bit of suffering - I argue that the joy of listening to Amber on a dark night, or SAW 85-92 as the sun comes over the horizon, or that first kiss with someone you know you have a deep connection with, or drinking a beer as the warm ocean waves tickle your feet, or finally passing Gauntlet on one quarter, or learning a new language are all worth suffering. And obviously that is just an example list - life is full of wonderful experiences that counterbalance and actually outweigh the costs of suffering.

Furthermore - non-existence cannot be a state of anything.

For the record, i have two daughters - one adopted, and one biological. Raising them is a joy. After a certain level of development of their understanding of the world, you stop telling them what to do (and generally you only do that so they don't end up dead, otherwise you try and teach by example about what it is to be a good humon). When they reach that level of understanding, you make suggestions and prod them - make them query their own actions.

There are two reasons to breed.

1. The biological imperative to propagate the species. And self-control is subject to manipulation, read about ego depletion.

2. The more beautiful answer is this - all the atoms in the universe get recycled. Inside of you is an atom from a dwarf star that died long ago in a galaxy far away, an atom from Einstein's hair, an atom from a wormhole to the Horsehead Nebula. Or to quote someone much more eloquent than myself: “The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of star stuff.” -Carl Sagan

  On 6/25/2015 at 12:44 AM, peace 7 said:

 

  On 6/25/2015 at 12:20 AM, Jev said:

You all think and do whatever you want. Just leave the kids out of it. You have no right to put new beings into this because they have no choice. They are never asked. They are always forced into it. Do you really consider telling kids (living beings actually manipulated and transformed by their surroundings) how to live and how to behave and what to do to be a right thing? Do you consider to be a right thing that you force somebody into something? I don't. A non-existing being is a being without problems, without fears, without suffering. There is absolutely no risk for a non-existent, yet there is many risks and guaranteed suffering for the existing ones. Non-existence is the ultimate state of peace. If you breed, you do suffering to others without asking them for their opinions. You maintain the circle of non-sense just for your fun and comfort while the side-product suffers. Fucked up, if you ask me.

 

There is no need to breed. At all. You won't see the results of your decisions for too long anyway. So is it worth suffering of others? I say no.

 

And it is not about general happiness/unhappiness of someone's life because each single living human being experiences some kind of suffering sometimes. The life is not worth even the tiniest amount of suffering it brings because it can be completely prevented without any loss at all. If death devalue everything a living being lives for (the state of mind), it will zero your "achievements" too. Yes, it will zero the suffering too but why need to die anyway in order not to suffer? Just don't get born in the first place.

 

I am so tired of explaining this.

 

Peace all.

 

There is always Life; physicality or not. Consciousness is infinite, and suffering is merely a tiny slice of the full-gamut of human emotions. It is a misunderstanding of Buddhism that suffering is an emotional-definite and ever-existing consequence of this projection of physical reality. Nirvana has no suffering, Zen has no suffering-- even in the most simplistic sense, sleep generally is pleasant and an escape from all that we can consider suffering.

 

 

We can all be happy, and we can all spread happiness and human strength; the strength to follow the paths that one truly has in their hearts, disregarding the illusion of future and finding peace in following one's path in the ever-present.

Um the first of the four noble truths from the first sermon the Buddha ever gave is that life is characterized by suffering (dukha). And Zen Buddhism is seen as a return to the more original form of Buddhism after Tendai and Shingon transformed Buddhism in Japan to a more syncretic religion that was highly usurped by the state.

Edit:

  On 6/25/2015 at 12:20 AM, Jev said:

You all think and do whatever you want. Just leave the kids out of it. You have no right to put new beings into this because they have no choice. They are never asked. They are always forced into it. Do you really consider telling kids (living beings actually manipulated and transformed by their surroundings) how to live and how to behave and what to do to be a right thing? Do you consider to be a right thing that you force somebody into something? I don't. A non-existing being is a being without problems, without fears, without suffering. There is absolutely no risk for a non-existent, yet there is many risks and guaranteed suffering for the existing ones. Non-existence is the ultimate state of peace. If you breed, you do suffering to others without asking them for their opinions. You maintain the circle of non-sense just for your fun and comfort while the side-product suffers. Fucked up, if you ask me.

 

There is no need to breed. At all. You won't see the results of your decisions for too long anyway. So is it worth suffering of others? I say no.

 

And it is not about general happiness/unhappiness of someone's life because each single living human being experiences some kind of suffering sometimes. The life is not worth even the tiniest amount of suffering it brings because it can be completely prevented without any loss at all. If death devalue everything a living being lives for (the state of mind), it will zero your "achievements" too. Yes, it will zero the suffering too but why need to die anyway in order not to suffer? Just don't get born in the first place.

 

I am so tired of explaining this.

 

Peace all.

  On 6/25/2015 at 12:20 AM, Jev said:

life is not worth even the tiniest amount of suffering it brings

  Quote

 

  On 8/24/2014 at 12:18 AM, Jev said:

Well, looking forward to the Poland gig. My first-time AE live.

  On 8/28/2014 at 10:34 PM, Jev said:

I am really worried about sound quality. If it sucks as 99% of gigs (recently Prefuse 73) I would be very disappointed.

  On 9/19/2014 at 7:33 PM, Jev said:

But I will definitely be considerably less fresh for Ae at 2 AM nevertheless and that is not really ideal state of things for me as I take listening to them quite seriously.

  On 9/22/2014 at 6:30 PM, Jev said:

Unfortunately, I have to be honest. I was (and still am) very disappointed by the AE gig in Krakow.

  On 9/22/2014 at 6:45 PM, Jev said:

I was even changing places in the room in order to find a sweet spot but without much success. I started right in the middle face-to-face to Ae's position on the stage and then moved to the side where the room was more open. It was a bit better then, but the bass is a non-directional sound so it wasn't helping much.

 

living must be very difficult for you

UK population is up 500k in the past year.

Roughly 50% from net births/deaths, and 50% from migration.

We are definitely living longer and resisting more diseases.... I kinda remember doing predator/prey cycle models at school.

Basically, we will run out of resources when our population reaches an upper limit and we will then be fucked.

Many other animals / insects will be extinct before us though as we destroy all their habitats.

Happy Thursday y'all

nah, we'll probably expand innit. go live on titan and shit.

Antinatalism has some perfectly valid points

Jev is alright

  On 6/25/2015 at 2:13 PM, AJW said:

Antinatalism has some perfectly valid points

 

Jev is alright

Yeah I'm pretty sure jev has been watching the youtube user inmendham, or maybe read Benatar's book. I also think they are valid points. It's hard to analyze in a realistic way though and can lead to some dark places mentally that are not sustainable if one is to live in the world, which one already does obviously. But life itself also has a "genie out of the bottle" quality, which may mean only a global catastrophe of epic proportions could relieve it, and in that case, we could make an argument for making life as pleasant and empathic as possible and we can only do that by sustaining our existence and use technology and analytics to find the best possible route for all animals and humans. Life in nature is no more pleasant if humans aren't around, and it will go on without us until the planet kicks.

There's a sense of life-affirming experiences in this thread. Wait, this isn't the GoT thread, right? ;D

Also

, before I forget: this Wednesday a Dutch court forced the Dutch parliament to take steps to reduce Co2 output by 25% by 2020:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/06/24/world/europe/ap-eu-netherlands-climate-case.html?_r=0

  Quote

 

A Dutch court ordered the government Wednesday to slash greenhouse gas emissions to help fight global warming, a landmark ruling in a case brought by hundreds of concerned citizens that could pave the way for similar legal battles around the world.

  On 6/25/2015 at 9:21 AM, triachus said:

 

  On 6/25/2015 at 12:20 AM, Jev said:

life is not worth even the tiniest amount of suffering it brings

 

  Quote

 

  On 8/24/2014 at 12:18 AM, Jev said:

Well, looking forward to the Poland gig. My first-time AE live.

  On 8/28/2014 at 10:34 PM, Jev said:

I am really worried about sound quality. If it sucks as 99% of gigs (recently Prefuse 73) I would be very disappointed.

  On 9/19/2014 at 7:33 PM, Jev said:

But I will definitely be considerably less fresh for Ae at 2 AM nevertheless and that is not really ideal state of things for me as I take listening to them quite seriously.

  On 9/22/2014 at 6:30 PM, Jev said:

Unfortunately, I have to be honest. I was (and still am) very disappointed by the AE gig in Krakow.

  On 9/22/2014 at 6:45 PM, Jev said:

I was even changing places in the room in order to find a sweet spot but without much success. I started right in the middle face-to-face to Ae's position on the stage and then moved to the side where the room was more open. It was a bit better then, but the bass is a non-directional sound so it wasn't helping much.

 

 

living must be very difficult for you

 

FLOL

oh the suffering, the suffering.

There is no suffering in Nirvana.

...and I have surfed the cosmos, lived for hundreds of years over thousands of years, been nothing and everything, but really, I thought Gauntlet was programmed to not be beatable with one quarter, so to those who did it when it was still in arcades, kudos.

  On 6/25/2015 at 3:10 PM, coax said:

 

  On 6/25/2015 at 2:13 PM, AJW said:

Antinatalism has some perfectly valid points

 

Jev is alright

 

Yeah I'm pretty sure jev has been watching the youtube user inmendham, or maybe read Benatar's book. I also think they are valid points. It's hard to analyze in a realistic way though and can lead to some dark places mentally that are not sustainable if one is to live in the world, which one already does obviously. But life itself also has a "genie out of the bottle" quality, which may mean only a global catastrophe of epic proportions could relieve it, and in that case, we could make an argument for making life as pleasant and empathic as possible and we can only do that by sustaining our existence and use technology and analytics to find the best possible route for all animals and humans. Life in nature is no more pleasant if humans aren't around, and it will go on without us until the planet kicks.

 

I haven't read a single book about philosophy in my life. I am not really interested in philosophy in general. This is just what I have came up with during my life - naturally, based on experience. I have found a Wikipedia article about the Antinatalism thing and to my astonishment they say almost the exact stuff I have been thinking about which is funny. I had no idea it was a "branch" of philosophy and that it had a name so I am glad I am not alone in this.

Most of the philosophy I have encountered in my life was (to me) pointless thoughts about things that does not matter to me at all. I particularly dislike when the relativity bullshit comes into a debate (like words' meaning-dissections etc.) and how most of the philosophic stuff is written in such an incomprehensible language.

To me, this is more like:

1) I have a problem.

2) What can I do in order to make the problem go away, to solve it?

3) The solution: Non-existence.

So it does not matter to me that "purpose" is "whatever". What matters to me is that every single human (and most animals) are capable of suffering and that every single of them will experience the suffering in some amount in their life. And relativity of purpose (or logic or whatever) will not make the suffering to go away. Non-existence, on the other hand, will. The solution - non-existence.

I am not trying to please myself with philosophy and "win" debates. I just try to solve a problem I have and I have found a solution that is quicker than waiting for the universe to disappear.

Also, I am not really depressed, guys. I just don't see any point in making new life and maintaining the circle of non-sense. It is simply that irrational stuff irritates me a lot and I don't want to be part of irrational stuff wherever/whenever possible.

And to those who say "I am happy in life". Cool, my parents are probably happy too, blissfully ignorant to the fact what I am experiencing because of their decisions (no hate against my parents though - they simply did not know).

The point is, the whole debate, that it is not about you at all.

  On 6/25/2015 at 9:21 AM, triachus said:

 

  On 6/25/2015 at 12:20 AM, Jev said:

life is not worth even the tiniest amount of suffering it brings

 

  Quote

 

  On 8/24/2014 at 12:18 AM, Jev said:

Well, looking forward to the Poland gig. My first-time AE live.

  On 8/28/2014 at 10:34 PM, Jev said:

I am really worried about sound quality. If it sucks as 99% of gigs (recently Prefuse 73) I would be very disappointed.

  On 9/19/2014 at 7:33 PM, Jev said:

But I will definitely be considerably less fresh for Ae at 2 AM nevertheless and that is not really ideal state of things for me as I take listening to them quite seriously.

  On 9/22/2014 at 6:30 PM, Jev said:

Unfortunately, I have to be honest. I was (and still am) very disappointed by the AE gig in Krakow.

  On 9/22/2014 at 6:45 PM, Jev said:

I was even changing places in the room in order to find a sweet spot but without much success. I started right in the middle face-to-face to Ae's position on the stage and then moved to the side where the room was more open. It was a bit better then, but the bass is a non-directional sound so it wasn't helping much.

 

 

living must be very difficult for you

 

Yeah, a funny post :-) Good job.

  On 6/25/2015 at 5:41 PM, peace 7 said:

There is no suffering in Nirvana.

 

...and I have surfed the cosmos, lived for hundreds of years over thousands of years, been nothing and everything, but really, I thought Gauntlet was programmed to not be beatable with one quarter, so to those who did it when it was still in arcades, kudos.

It took a lot of quarters to get to that state.

  On 6/25/2015 at 6:47 PM, Jev said:

 

 

The point is, the whole debate, that it is not about you at all.

 

So it's all about you? Talk about selfishness...

Welp, this thread developed nicely.

  On 6/25/2015 at 6:47 PM, Jev said:

 

 

 

I haven't read a single book about philosophy in my life. I am not really interested in philosophy in general. This is just what I have came up with during my life - naturally, based on experience. I have found a Wikipedia article about the Antinatalism thing and to my astonishment they say almost the exact stuff I have been thinking about which is funny. I had no idea it was a "branch" of philosophy and that it had a name so I am glad I am not alone in this.

 

Most of the philosophy I have encountered in my life was (to me) pointless thoughts about things that does not matter to me at all. I particularly dislike when the relativity bullshit comes into a debate (like words' meaning-dissections etc.) and how most of the philosophic stuff is written in such an incomprehensible language.

 

To me, this is more like:

 

1) I have a problem.

2) What can I do in order to make the problem go away, to solve it?

3) The solution: Non-existence.

 

So it does not matter to me that "purpose" is "whatever". What matters to me is that every single human (and most animals) are capable of suffering and that every single of them will experience the suffering in some amount in their life. And relativity of purpose (or logic or whatever) will not make the suffering to go away. Non-existence, on the other hand, will. The solution - non-existence.

 

I am not trying to please myself with philosophy and "win" debates. I just try to solve a problem I have and I have found a solution that is quicker than waiting for the universe to disappear.

 

Also, I am not really depressed, guys. I just don't see any point in making new life and maintaining the circle of non-sense. It is simply that irrational stuff irritates me a lot and I don't want to be part of irrational stuff wherever/whenever possible.

 

And to those who say "I am happy in life". Cool, my parents are probably happy too, blissfully ignorant to the fact what I am experiencing because of their decisions (no hate against my parents though - they simply did not know).

 

The point is, the whole debate, that it is not about you at all.

 

I think we need to be able to have the debate without accusing people of being depressed. Even if they were depressed, it would be dishonest, since I'm pretty sure most arguments come from some sort of emotional reaction to the world. Maybe depressed people are able to see more clearly and will have access to a point of view that is just as real as any other argument.

It's pretty clear to me that humans ignore vast amounts of reality in order to focus on their own lives, and suffering is one of those things. You could say the same thing about not going vegan or ignoring knowledge of sweat shops still buying the products etc. I'm open to discussing the idea of the life enterprise as a whole, but the problem has always been what to do about it practically. And from an antinatalist perspective, we still haven't solved the problem of animals in the wild who also experience suffering. I personally think a good start would be to have much higher standards for having kids, and much more care needs to be taken with having kids. There's a lot one can do practically but even then, you're taking a big risk cause you have no idea what kind of suffering the kid will go through out of your control

  On 6/25/2015 at 8:01 PM, mokz said:

Welp, this thread developed nicely.

Oops, I totally forgot this thread was about earth extinction