Earth Entering New Extinction Phase

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:20 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:15 AM, Bechuga said:

 

  On 6/26/2015 at 10:45 PM, Jev said:

 

  On 6/26/2015 at 1:48 AM, Bechuga said:

Paradox: Jev's girlfriend loves his approach to non-existence so much, she demands to have his babies

Fun, but luckily, she is on the same page as me.

 

Dinner dates must be fun

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

yes you probably don't actually don't do dinner dates, please don't be literal to a dumb joke

 

 

 

What is dinner dates, mate?

 

We are together for 9th year now, if that is interesting for you.

 

Do you not find any joy in your experiences with your girlfriend?

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:22 AM, sweepstakes said:

wtf happen to my favorite idm Webbed Site?

 

:(

Existence happened, and your parents rudely gave birth to you without asking non-you if you would like to have been born or not, and now you are suffering because of that.

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:20 AM, Jev said:

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:15 AM, Bechuga said:

 

  On 6/26/2015 at 10:45 PM, Jev said:

 

  On 6/26/2015 at 1:48 AM, Bechuga said:

Paradox: Jev's girlfriend loves his approach to non-existence so much, she demands to have his babies

Fun, but luckily, she is on the same page as me.

 

Dinner dates must be fun

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

yes you probably don't actually don't do dinner dates, please don't be literal to a dumb joke

 

 

 

What is dinner dates, mate?

 

We are together for 9th year now, if that is interesting for you.

 

[youtubehd]BabsgCQhpu4[/youtubehd]

(note: I don't know who this character is but the meal is similar to real life)

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:03 AM, chenGOD said:

Your assumption that rape and murder is waiting around every corner does not match with reality, as I have pointed out.

 

Yes it exists, and yes it is a terrible tragedy when it happens. Does that mean that life is over and no joy can ever be found again?

I begin to wonder if maybe you are suffering from clinical depression - and this is not meant as an insult, but it seems you can find no positive things in life whatsoever. So if you are, I hope you can overcome it.

 

Do you honestly not know who Malala is? Why is someone who is deeply religious not relevant?

 

I'm not going to bother with the absurdity of non-existence being blissful.

NO. You don't understand at all. This is fucking frustrating. I thought you actually did.

See, this is not about quantity of suffering vs quantity of joy. This is all about no purpose in life and together with this there is no purpose in taking the risk by making new being because non-existence is completely safe - so there is no need to breed at all, nothing to gain, nothing to lose - nothing.

That is why I keep saying all the time that we have to keep the religion out of this discussion. Religion (or belief in anything supernatural before/after life) is truly a believe/don't believe thing. I can't argue about religious purposes at all. So if somebody have kids because he believes that he rescues poor souls from hell, then I can't say absolutely nothing against it. I can just say that I don't believe in that and that is it. Such people would be on the different page than me but that would not make them immoral or selfish in my eyes at all because they have a moral purpose that can't be denied in any logical way. Period.

But if you fucking say that there is no purpose in life, and that you recognize there is a risk of suffering in life THEN WHAT IS FUCKING POINT OF EXISTING IN THE FIRST PLACE? It is a pure waste of souls so to speak. You create something for NOTHING. You bring kids to this world while giving them chance to suffer FOR NOTHING. Because you don't have afterlife or salvation or anything in your life philosophy, you don't have ANY reason to create new life apart from SELFISH REASONS to breed for the family joy and other bullshit that does not matter at all because... a non-existing being is a "satisfied" being in a philosophy that denies purpose of life or religion.

Summary:

- If you are religious and believe you do good by breeding for souls in a different world then you have a well-intended purpose that cannot be considered immoral.

- If you recognize there is no purpose in life and understand that non-existence is neutral then you can only have selfish needs to breed and therefore you are immoral.

It is just pure logic and that is why we have to disregard everything religious/belief-based in this discussion. That is also why I completely disregard Malala and her goals in her life in this philosophy. She is naturally doing it for her god (she does moral, well-intended stuff on the planet and receives a reward in afterlife - pure and simple, nothing to argue about, nothing immoral, ok maybe a bit selfish, because she expects the reward but you know...).

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:25 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:20 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:15 AM, Bechuga said:

 

  On 6/26/2015 at 10:45 PM, Jev said:

 

  On 6/26/2015 at 1:48 AM, Bechuga said:

Paradox: Jev's girlfriend loves his approach to non-existence so much, she demands to have his babies

Fun, but luckily, she is on the same page as me.

 

Dinner dates must be fun

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

yes you probably don't actually don't do dinner dates, please don't be literal to a dumb joke

 

 

 

What is dinner dates, mate?

 

We are together for 9th year now, if that is interesting for you.

 

 

Do you not find any joy in your experiences with your girlfriend?

I do find a lot of joy from time to time in my life and my girlfriend is one of them. But even if my life was FANTASTIC with only a bit of suffering, it would still be NOT WORTH LIVING AT ALL because logic:

(1) The presence of pain is bad.

(2) The presence of pleasure is good.

(3) The absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone.

(4) The absence of pleasure is not bad unless there is somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation.

Again, this only applies if you have no religious/belief purpose in life.

"Jev"

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:00 AM, Timothy Forward said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 1:42 AM, Jev said:

 

 

At least it's an ethos dude

 

If not sarcastic then here is my answer:

Non-existence does not care about ethoses.

shut the fuck up Jev

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:54 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:25 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:20 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:15 AM, Bechuga said:

 

  On 6/26/2015 at 10:45 PM, Jev said:

 

  On 6/26/2015 at 1:48 AM, Bechuga said:

Paradox: Jev's girlfriend loves his approach to non-existence so much, she demands to have his babies

Fun, but luckily, she is on the same page as me.

 

Dinner dates must be fun

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

yes you probably don't actually don't do dinner dates, please don't be literal to a dumb joke

 

 

 

What is dinner dates, mate?

 

We are together for 9th year now, if that is interesting for you.

 

 

Do you not find any joy in your experiences with your girlfriend?

 

I do find a lot of joy from time to time in my life and my girlfriend is one of them. But even if my life was FANTASTIC with only a bit of suffering, it would still be NOT WORTH LIVING AT ALL because logic:

 

(1) The presence of pain is bad.

(2) The presence of pleasure is good.

(3) The absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone.

(4) The absence of pleasure is not bad unless there is somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation.

 

Again, this only applies if you have no religious/belief purpose in life.

 

Life is not a zero-sum game.

That isn't logic, it's a series of statements that are loosely connected. When taken as a whole the author is begging the question.

If we look at it from constructed perspective, it also fails to work as a logical series. The author is ascribing socially constructed qualities (good and bad) to neurological responses to stimuli (pain and pleasure). Further, definitions of all four criteria (good, bad, pain, and pleasure) are subjective and not universally constant.

Your last sentence is a fallacy of exclusion.

As to purpose - let me clarify what I meant. There is no purpose as in there is no directed goal to which individual agents must conform. We do have free will, although this is constrained by biological imperatives, and can also be manipulated (see ego depletion). The purpose of life is to continue the species. We can best continue the species by making the world a more enjoyable place to live in.

This forum attracts the weirdest people.

.

I tell ya hwat would persuade me to get my tubes cut: if I was told my kid would turn out like Jev.

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:25 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:22 AM, sweepstakes said:

wtf happen to my favorite idm Webbed Site?

 

:(

 

Existence happened, and your parents rudely gave birth to you without asking non-you if you would like to have been born or not, and now you are suffering because of that.

 

What the hell's that supposed to mean Chen?

  On 6/27/2015 at 9:03 AM, ambermonk said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:25 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:22 AM, sweepstakes said:

wtf happen to my favorite idm Webbed Site?

 

:(

Existence happened, and your parents rudely gave birth to you without asking non-you if you would like to have been born or not, and now you are suffering because of that.

What the hell's that supposed to mean Chen?

  On 6/27/2015 at 9:05 AM, sweepstakes said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 9:03 AM, ambermonk said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:25 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:22 AM, sweepstakes said:

wtf happen to my favorite idm Webbed Site?

 

:(

Existence happened, and your parents rudely gave birth to you without asking non-you if you would like to have been born or not, and now you are suffering because of that.

What the hell's that supposed to mean Chen?

Only Jev knows. Jev knows all. Jev is the great Zardoz. THE PENIS IS EVIL.

 

Now go forth... and KILL.

  On 6/27/2015 at 3:22 AM, BCM said:

shut the fuck up Jev

Fuck off.

  On 6/27/2015 at 7:41 AM, Hoodie said:

ok, so what if everyone stopped having babies and the human species died out... then what? i would assume that another species on this planet would eventually evolve higher cognition, just like we did. they'll all go through the same suffering that countless humans have throughout history while we were getting our shit together as a global society (and still are). so, there will be an inevitable repeat of everything humans experience (in a different package, but probably quite similar nonetheless). maybe not even on planet earth, but somewhere in the universe intelligence will spawn again.

 

my question is, why do you, "jev," find it immoral to procreate and continue the legacy of the human species and find it moral for the human species to terminate and abandon the future intelligent life that will develop in our universe? would it not be better for an advanced intelligent species to stick around and act as a benevolent guide rather than bailing when they have achieved the ability to logically discuss concepts such as suffering, the meaning of life, and antinatalism? going down this path of reasoning reveals your viewpoint as quite narrow, because you fail to consider the net suffering present in the universe. so, really, the most moral path would be to attempt to further develop technology and guide other intelligent life to prosperity.

 

listen: a meteor or gamma radiation might kill us anyway, but i think we should at least try since we're all here on earth anyway and, i mean, i don't know about you, but i don't really have any other plans.

Nice, constructive post with some well-intended thinking but no. If the universe vanish eventually, every single event between its creation and its vanishing would be worthless. The journey is not important here - the final result is. And the final result is, again, non-existence (again, if we keep the religion out of this).

  On 6/27/2015 at 6:44 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:54 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:25 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:20 AM, Jev said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:15 AM, Bechuga said:

 

  On 6/26/2015 at 10:45 PM, Jev said:

 

  On 6/26/2015 at 1:48 AM, Bechuga said:

Paradox: Jev's girlfriend loves his approach to non-existence so much, she demands to have his babies

Fun, but luckily, she is on the same page as me.

 

Dinner dates must be fun

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

yes you probably don't actually don't do dinner dates, please don't be literal to a dumb joke

 

 

 

What is dinner dates, mate?

 

We are together for 9th year now, if that is interesting for you.

 

 

Do you not find any joy in your experiences with your girlfriend?

 

I do find a lot of joy from time to time in my life and my girlfriend is one of them. But even if my life was FANTASTIC with only a bit of suffering, it would still be NOT WORTH LIVING AT ALL because logic:

 

(1) The presence of pain is bad.

(2) The presence of pleasure is good.

(3) The absence of pain is good, even if that good is not enjoyed by anyone.

(4) The absence of pleasure is not bad unless there is somebody for whom this absence is a deprivation.

 

Again, this only applies if you have no religious/belief purpose in life.

 

 

Life is not a zero-sum game.

 

That isn't logic, it's a series of statements that are loosely connected. When taken as a whole the author is begging the question.

 

If we look at it from constructed perspective, it also fails to work as a logical series. The author is ascribing socially constructed qualities (good and bad) to neurological responses to stimuli (pain and pleasure). Further, definitions of all four criteria (good, bad, pain, and pleasure) are subjective and not universally constant.

 

Your last sentence is a fallacy of exclusion.

 

 

As to purpose - let me clarify what I meant. There is no purpose as in there is no directed goal to which individual agents must conform. We do have free will, although this is constrained by biological imperatives, and can also be manipulated (see ego depletion). The purpose of life is to continue the species. We can best continue the species by making the world a more enjoyable place to live in.

 

You are wrong. Every single human being experiences stimuli that it considers subjectively good or bad. Pain in that logic is everything that you don't like to experience, while pleasure is everything you like to experience. It is not social construct at all. It is a biological function of human beings. If there was no "good" or "bad", the brain would be unable to make any statement about anything and therefore would be completely stuck in indecision, completely neutral. A completely neutral brain leads, logically (if you realize how the brain functions), to death and non-existence of the brain as it would be unable to survive.

There is no decision making without priorities and "good" and "bad" are only subjective priorities. What you say is basically not possible at all.

And no, the purpose of life is not to continue the species because the species will vanish anyway eventually. Again, a non-sense circle.

  On 6/27/2015 at 10:24 AM, Blank said:

lol I don't think I was being entirely irrelevent btw Jev - I mean I was just trying to cheer you up a little. Bloomin' ey.

 

Would it cheer you up if we all sacrificed our genitals to the boner god?

Oh, thank you then for your well-intended try to cheer me up, Blank. I appreciate that.

Yes, that would cheer me up a bit if it was in a South Park episode.

  On 6/27/2015 at 9:05 AM, sweepstakes said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 9:03 AM, ambermonk said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:25 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:22 AM, sweepstakes said:

wtf happen to my favorite idm Webbed Site?

 

:(

Existence happened, and your parents rudely gave birth to you without asking non-you if you would like to have been born or not, and now you are suffering because of that.

What the hell's that supposed to mean Chen?

Only Jev knows. Jev knows all. Jev is the great Zardoz. THE PENIS IS EVIL.

 

The penis is not evil as it brings pleasure. You can try it again later, when you start using logic in your statements.

EDIT: Sorry for the mess guys, I will try my best to use the multiquote function from now.

It's a relief that you admitted something gives you pleasure. I was worried for a second that you were a bit of a Debbie downer with a case of the Mondays

  On 6/27/2015 at 2:33 PM, Candiru said:

It's a relief that you admitted something gives you pleasure. I was worried for a second that you were a bit of a Debbie downer with a case of the Mondays

There is actually many things that brings me pleasure. Not a crazy, nihilistic psycho that many people here might seem to think I am.

how DARE you suggest that Zardoz is a crazy, nihilistic psycho

Release the Tabernacle! NRA Party muthafuckaaaaaz

If you really wanna play the anti-natalism game, then...

Yes it's true that one can't consent to their being conceived. But people can commit suicide whenever they want. Anti-natalism seems to presuppose that people are somehow required to live out their life in its entirety. (Paradoxically, it's mostly white middle-class men who commit suicide, rather than much worse-off people...definitely a bit of info worth adding to the equation)

But most of all, anti-natalism is just garden-variety pessimism elevated to the level of a philosophical system. I've never heard of a happy anti-natalist. People just take their personal neuroses and explode them into some grandiose pseudo-insight. There's that old psychoanalysis chestnut: when people talk about human nature, what they're really talking about is themselves...

Anyway, on balance I think life is clearly worth living.

seriously fuck this fucking thread

and jev your cioran-isms are so "intellectual wannabe from the european periphery in the 70's who becomes a right-wing politician/tv personality in the 90's" it's not even eligible for hipster appeal

the rest of you please carry on thinking about corbusian flats, red flags, androids, drugs, rock and roll, or whatever tickles your utopian fancy