EU

  On 6/18/2016 at 12:07 PM, messiaen said:

 

  On 6/15/2016 at 7:33 PM, fletcher said:

Yep, too much shit slinging going on.

There are far too many issues that will get affected that we havent even thought about yet - but as it goes I'm still voting Leave as I believe the EU is going down the pan and is a non-sustainable model that is beyond reform.

well, you're in good company.

 

Seen this posted all over facebook. It's as biased as you could get

howso? who is it missing from the leave side?

what brexit people don't realise is that they won't get what they think they're voting for, Britain out of the EU will still negotiate to be part of the EEA and the EU Customs Union, but in order to do that will have to agree to pretty much all the same shit that they have to agree to inside of the EU (including free movement of people), with the downside being that they won't end up with any influence inside Europe, so all of the supposed cons and none of the benefits. there's no chance of britain not entering into the EEA (or some similar trade agreement), to not do so would be economic suicide, and given that the majority of UK politicians are in favour of remaining in the EU, it's no surprise that they'll also be in favour of joining the EEA as well, brexit won't change that.

  On 6/18/2016 at 12:10 PM, messiaen said:

the idea of being governed by a conservative goverment unbridled by even the regulation of the EU fills me with a cold, intense sense of dread.

This x10,000

I like the way the Brexit campaign keeps talking about how, if we leave, we get more money for the NHS etc. Like the Tories aren't just going to take all of that fucking money and keep cutting the NHS the way they've done for years. Naive to the point of stupidity to think ordinary folks will ever see any of that cash dolla.

disappointed Corbyn hasnt stepped it up into the breach of Tory infighting

perfect opportunity for Jeremy to wack cunts like Boris & Gove (the Ted Cruz of the Tory party), but has he done it? has he fuck

reckon Corbyn is gearing up for post-Brexit Tory bashing with bs rhetoric, when a chance to truly influence the debate would have passed = gimp move

Putin must be sitting fairly smugly currently even with the Olympics ban, watch the prick step it up again somewhere like the Baltic or Ukraine again, while we sit round twiddling our collective ejaculate over fuck knows what

Corbyn has explicitly stated he wont be pursuing a negative, Slating the other party campaign i think

  On 6/18/2016 at 7:32 PM, cwmbrancity said:

disappointed Corbyn hasnt stepped it up into the breach of Tory infighting

 

perfect opportunity for Jeremy to wack cunts like Boris & Gove (the Ted Cruz of the Tory party), but has he done it? has he fuck

 

reckon Corbyn is gearing up for post-Brexit Tory bashing with bs rhetoric, when a chance to truly influence the debate would have passed = gimp move

 

Putin must be sitting fairly smugly currently even with the Olympics ban, watch the prick step it up again somewhere like the Baltic or Ukraine again, while we sit round twiddling our collective ejaculate over fuck knows what

Corbyn would be secretly delighted with a No vote, he's happy to keep his trap shut.

http://news.sky.com/story/1713684/imf-brexit-may-not-mean-a-british-recession

Which is a kick in the face for the Remain gang who were hoping for a doom laden IMF report to back up Osborne's outlandish claims - a slight dip in GDP is to be expected if we leave, and now that the Remain's scaremongering is being shown for what it is, I hope more people now have the confidence to vote Leave if they feel it is the better choice.

Also from the BBC today:

    Quote

 

Former defence chief Lord Guthrie has switched sides to the Leave campaign in the EU referendum, saying he is worried by the prospect of "a European army".

That's some nice misrepresenting of what the report says, it backs up what I was saying above actually, Britain needs to remain in the EEA in order to avoid a recession, but if you're going to remain in the EEA, what's the point of leaving the EU?

  On 6/18/2016 at 12:23 PM, messiaen said:

howso? who is it missing from the leave side?

OK. Tried to source wherever possible, rather than just listing claims that i've made up in my head.

Putin has not announced which side he favours.

The ISIS "claim" comes from something David Cameron said in a speech and not from ISIS themselves (source)

If Trump becomes the next American PM then his opinion vastly outweighs whatever Obama thinks (doesn't mean I support Trump btw)

The IMF do appear to indicate a Remain leaning in their latest report, however its not as damning as Osborne and Cameron had hoped.

A report just published by the National Farmers Union shows that Brexit could be beneficial to Farmers - althouth they seem to stick with their remain stance and the conclusions on the NFU site are fairly biased without highlighting the possible Brexit positives.

Goldman Sachs want us to Remain as they are currently investing millions of dollars by building a new EU headquarters in London.

The "minority of business leaders" would be Lord Bamford (boss of JCB), The boss of Wetherspoons, Timpsons, from The International Business Times:-

    Quote

John Mills, millionaire Labour donor and founder of John Mills Limited (JML), is among the supporters of the Vote Leave campaign, while Joe Foster and John Caudwell, the founders of Reebok and Phone 4U respectively have also backed the Brexit movement. Luke Johnson, the chairman of cafe chain Patisserie Valerie, and Nigel Wilson, the CEO of Legal & General, have all expressed themselves in favour of Britain leaving the EU. Oliver Hemsley, CEO of Numis Securities, and Crispin Odey, boss of leading hedge fund Odey Asset Management, have also backed the leave campaign,

 

and also Sir James Dyson (a great interview here and I want to "borrow" his graph on EU / rest of world trading trends with the UK.

On the university side of things, YES lots of lecturers etc. have announced they wish for an EU remain, but I like this quote from The Times which helps to put the science funding thing into perspective:

    Quote

 

With relief from the bureaucratic process of EU grant applications, there should be time enough to pursue other possibilities. In general, if we leave the EU, British universities will lose only a tiny 2.6 per cent of total income, and 16 per cent of total research income. Perhaps this is better put in a different way: if we leave the EU, our universities will still have 97.4 per cent of their total income, and 84 per cent of their research income.

Urghhh and now my brain hurts, I might do some more later

  On 6/18/2016 at 8:37 PM, caze said:

That's some nice misrepresenting of what the report says, it backs up what I was saying above actually, Britain needs to remain in the EEA in order to avoid a recession, but if you're going to remain in the EEA, what's the point of leaving the EU?

Who is to say we would not be heading for another recession even if we stay in the EU. Greece seem to be heading that way again, and keeping our ties with the EU will only increase or chances imo. The IMF are shitting themselves over the fact that we might Brexit - the UK is just behind Germany in terms of GDP and its seriously going to rock the boat if we left.

  On 6/18/2016 at 12:10 PM, messiaen said:

you know what would be hilarious? if we voted leave, then all european union countries immediately kicked out all the british immigrants scattered all over it and we suddenly had to house 1.5 million extra people or whatever.

That wouldn't be hilarious at all, it would be grim. Especially if we returned the favour and then ended up with a net population of -6 million.

  On 6/18/2016 at 12:16 PM, messiaen said:

also, i have no idea how you can actually have the same opinion on something as the sun without just wanting to get in your car, pop the exhaust through the window, and then stab yourself in the heart with a broken glass bottle.

You seem pretty full of hatred. Just chill man, everyone is allowed an opinion. Unless you are a bigot in which case sorry I spoke.

you cant really compare the Greek & British economies

  On 6/18/2016 at 9:33 PM, fletcher said:

 

  On 6/18/2016 at 12:10 PM, messiaen said:

you know what would be hilarious? if we voted leave, then all european union countries immediately kicked out all the british immigrants scattered all over it and we suddenly had to house 1.5 million extra people or whatever.

 

That wouldn't be hilarious at all, it would be grim. Especially if we returned the favour and then ended up with a net population of -6 million.

 

 

  On 6/18/2016 at 12:16 PM, messiaen said:

also, i have no idea how you can actually have the same opinion on something as the sun without just wanting to get in your car, pop the exhaust through the window, and then stab yourself in the heart with a broken glass bottle.

 

You seem pretty full of hatred. Just chill man, everyone is allowed an opinion. Unless you are a bigot in which case sorry I spoke.

 

i will admit to despising the tories and what they stand for, unashamedly.

  On 6/18/2016 at 9:24 PM, fletcher said:

 

  On 6/18/2016 at 8:37 PM, caze said:

That's some nice misrepresenting of what the report says, it backs up what I was saying above actually, Britain needs to remain in the EEA in order to avoid a recession, but if you're going to remain in the EEA, what's the point of leaving the EU?

Who is to say we would not be heading for another recession even if we stay in the EU. Greece seem to be heading that way again, and keeping our ties with the EU will only increase or chances imo. The IMF are shitting themselves over the fact that we might Brexit - the UK is just behind Germany in terms of GDP and its seriously going to rock the boat if we left.

The UK can print its own money, unlike the Greeks. Comparing those two economies is ridiculous on a number of levels.

A leave vote is stupid for pretty much all the reasons caze has pointed out.

Additionally, the UK might be just behind Germany, but England isn't. The effect of a leave vote on sovereignty referendums in Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales shouldn't be underestimated; the effect of those three leaving the UK and rejoining the EU would mean England would be in a sorry state.

Also that Sky article on the IMF report really understates how bad even the smallest drop they predict would be on the UK economy.

Putin funds anti EU parties across the EU- I think his position is clear.

-nonsensical statement - redacted -

well I was gonna vote Remain but then someone commented "BRITAIN OUT" in a local news website comment section, so I guess that's my decision clinched now, eh?

More or Less has done a good series on various aspects of the referendum (only around 10 mins each):

The Referendum by Numbers: Trade

The Referendum by Numbers: Regulation

The Referendum by Numbers: Law

The Referendum by Numbers: Immigration

The Referendum by Numbers: The Cost of EU Membership

the British public isnt ready for actual facts, C

rhetoric & bluster shall carry Britannia onward into the breach and god knows where

  On 6/18/2016 at 10:43 PM, cwmbrancity said:

you cant really compare the Greek & British economies

even Yanis thinks the Brexit is a dick move https://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2016/03/04/brexit-will-hasten-collapse-of-european-union/

  On 6/19/2016 at 5:45 AM, nexxxus666 said:

Putin funds anti EU parties across the EU- I think his position is clear.

Yep regardless of what he's said, it's pretty obvious that Putin would stand to gain from any kind of weakening of the EU, so he's probably lovin' the latest polls

  On 6/18/2016 at 7:39 PM, caze said:

 

Corbyn would be secretly delighted with a No vote, he's happy to keep his trap shut.

 

Yeah, interesting to watch Corbyn sit on the sidelines. I'm sure deep down he'd rather an exit vote, but what the hell is he actually playing at? It'd be pretty damn irresponsible if he's just sitting it out and waiting for a post-Brexit Tory civil war. Gambling with the future of the country in order to advance Labour. I get the feeling that's what he's doing, which is pretty scummy.

  On 6/20/2016 at 1:36 PM, MDM Chaos said:

 

  On 6/18/2016 at 10:43 PM, cwmbrancity said:

you cant really compare the Greek & British economies

 

even Yanis thinks the Brexit is a dick move https://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2016/03/04/brexit-will-hasten-collapse-of-european-union/

 

Well thats not quite what he says:-

    Quote

 

While Mr Varoufakis said that he would be tempted to vote to leave the European Union, were he to have a vote, in order to give Brussels and Cameron “a bloody nose”, he said that a vote to leave would turn Europe into “that kind of divided continent that would become a black hole that would consume Britain as well”.

 

“So it is not in the interest of Britain to get out of this terrible Europe,”

He thinks Europe is shit and us leaving will make it worse for everyone else - especially Greece. Can't blame him for wanting us to stay in though for personal (national) pride issues.

  On 6/20/2016 at 2:08 PM, Tricone RC said:

 

  On 6/19/2016 at 5:45 AM, nexxxus666 said:

Putin funds anti EU parties across the EU- I think his position is clear.

Yep regardless of what he's said, it's pretty obvious that Putin would stand to gain from any kind of weakening of the EU, so he's probably lovin' the latest polls

 

  On 6/18/2016 at 7:39 PM, caze said:

 

Corbyn would be secretly delighted with a No vote, he's happy to keep his trap shut.

 

Yeah, interesting to watch Corbyn sit on the sidelines. I'm sure deep down he'd rather an exit vote, but what the hell is he actually playing at? It'd be pretty damn irresponsible if he's just sitting it out and waiting for a post-Brexit Tory civil war. Gambling with the future of the country in order to advance Labour. I get the feeling that's what he's doing, which is pretty scummy.

 

He's on Sky News tonight at 9pm, doing his first televised Referendum debate. Expect him in the headlines tomorrow.

Leaving a bit late in the day as you say, but I'm planning on tuning in as I am interested to hear what he has to say.

It is interesting that he has pretty much sat this one out and let the Tories combust over it without having to do much at all - but I am sure a lot of people would have used his opinion as a reference / trigger for voting one way or another but its very late in the debate IMO.

I'm kind of peeved because I won't actually be able to vote- I'm working Thursday daytime and gigging Thursday night. Can't pop in before work because I'm registered in the town my parents live in rather than where I live now. Really meant to get back and vote in this. Oh well.