elseq 1-5

I don't really know if the tracks were edited or not (because the guys said something about them spitting out albums in real-time). If they were edited, it is even more sad to be honest. I personally feel the Sean's statement that (paraphrased) they don't really understand their "Autechre organism" anymore (or something in that sense, feel free to correct me). It seems to me like that. I think they are a bit too much into the process lately rather than the output itself. It is easy to get pumped about sonic output after many weeks of programming when something exciting process-wise happens. I think they might have got a bit over-excited about elseq. I fight over-excitement when making tracks all the time. I think it is important to release stuff when it is tested by time. Frankly, I was quite shocked reading Rob's vision of releasing music "on Monday morning from a session on Friday." I guess I prefer Tool's approach to QA more.

And of course, the [opinion] thing stands for my personal point of view (and that watmm is full of barely legal pussies porn anal oral threesome cumshot facial asians czech russian latina mom teacher sister lesbian hardcore groupsex FFM BBC innocent moaning).

Also, to be clear, I have nothing about epic-length tracks (I am an art-rock/prog rock kid). I just dislike endless, repetitive, never-evolving takes on the same ideas over and over again without anything substantial to support it. I also don't enjoy listening to music as a background noise or under influence of drugs. I also don't rate music after listening while actively driving a car or cooking...

Once again, there definitely are great and fresh moments and parts on elseq (and some excellent tracks) and stunning sound-design (which the rest of their peers can only dream about).

  On 7/22/2016 at 12:40 AM, WNS000 said:

I think they are a bit too much into the process lately rather than the output itself. It is easy to get pumped about sonic output after many weeks of programming when something exciting process-wise happens. I think they might have got a bit over-excited about elseq.

  On 7/22/2016 at 1:32 AM, WNS000 said:

Also, to be clear, I have nothing about epic-length tracks (I am an art-rock/prog rock kid). I just dislike endless, repetitive, never-evolving takes on the same ideas over and over again without anything substantial to support it.

 

Once again, there definitely are great and fresh moments and parts on elseq (and some excellent tracks) and stunning sound-design (which the rest of their peers can only dream about).

i concur

  On 7/22/2016 at 1:32 AM, WNS000 said:

Also, to be clear, I have nothing about epic-length tracks (I am an art-rock/prog rock kid). I just dislike endless, repetitive, never-evolving takes on the same ideas over and over again without anything substantial to support it.

I like both. I'm working on a long-form prog album as well.. but at the same time I'm putting equal amounts of energy into making almost static, sprawling, repetitive "audio sculptures" or whatever wank term I want to use to describe it. I'm not quite at the point I want to be yet, but it's closer to what I want from that project than pandering to an audience and making concise bangerz.. I really don't care if anyone thinks they're too long/repetitive; I may actually look into doing art installations rather than playing live shows.

Anyway, back on subject, I'm really into the idea of super long-form stuff from Autechre. I've always enjoyed their lengthy tracks, and this is really doing it for me, being able to hear subtle changes and evolutions.

  On 7/22/2016 at 1:51 AM, modey said:

 

  On 7/22/2016 at 1:32 AM, WNS000 said:

Also, to be clear, I have nothing about epic-length tracks (I am an art-rock/prog rock kid). I just dislike endless, repetitive, never-evolving takes on the same ideas over and over again without anything substantial to support it.

I like both. I'm working on a long-form prog album as well.. but at the same time I'm putting equal amounts of energy into making almost static, sprawling, repetitive "audio sculptures" or whatever wank term I want to use to describe it. I'm not quite at the point I want to be yet, but it's closer to what I want from that project than pandering to an audience and making concise bangerz.. I really don't care if anyone thinks they're too long/repetitive; I may actually look into doing art installations rather than playing live shows.

 

 

Anyway, back on subject, I'm really into the idea of super long-form stuff from Autechre. I've always enjoyed their lengthy tracks, and this is really doing it for me, being able to hear subtle changes and evolutions.

 

I don't think that in order to be honest in creativity and not be pandering to an audience one has to create rushed or boring or under-produced or not-fleshed-out or whatever-bad stuff. I think the fact that you bring the "bangerz" argument in the context of this Autechre debate is indication of some kind of misunderstanding. I was not advocating purposeful, calculated creation of "concise bangerz" at all. One of my AE's absolutely favourite tracks is "Osla for n". Does it qualify as a "concise banger" in your POV? Many of my favourite tracks from other artists are almost 20 minutes long. Length and wow-effect isn't my point really. I am basically just advocating less over-excitement and rushing of releases. I am more of this mindset:

  Quote

 

Most of it never made the cut. “It takes a strong discipline to erase 80% of the music you record...Few have the discipline to get rid of ‘stuff’.”

So what are your elseq favourites and which tracks you don't care about too much (if any)?

I wish you the best of luck with your efforts (no sarcasm). Props for your "I'm not quite at the point I want to be yet...". I like that.

  On 7/22/2016 at 3:02 AM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/22/2016 at 1:51 AM, modey said:

 

  On 7/22/2016 at 1:32 AM, WNS000 said:

Also, to be clear, I have nothing about epic-length tracks (I am an art-rock/prog rock kid). I just dislike endless, repetitive, never-evolving takes on the same ideas over and over again without anything substantial to support it.

I like both. I'm working on a long-form prog album as well.. but at the same time I'm putting equal amounts of energy into making almost static, sprawling, repetitive "audio sculptures" or whatever wank term I want to use to describe it. I'm not quite at the point I want to be yet, but it's closer to what I want from that project than pandering to an audience and making concise bangerz.. I really don't care if anyone thinks they're too long/repetitive; I may actually look into doing art installations rather than playing live shows.

 

 

Anyway, back on subject, I'm really into the idea of super long-form stuff from Autechre. I've always enjoyed their lengthy tracks, and this is really doing it for me, being able to hear subtle changes and evolutions.

 

 

I don't think that in order to be honest in creativity and not be pandering to an audience one has to create rushed or boring or under-produced or not-fleshed-out or whatever-bad stuff. I think the fact that you bring the "bangerz" argument in the context of this Autechre debate is indication of some kind of misunderstanding. I was not advocating purposeful, calculated creation of "concise bangerz" at all. One of my AE's absolutely favourite tracks is "Osla for n". Does it qualify as a "concise banger" in your POV? Many of my favourite tracks from other artists are almost 20 minutes long. Length and wow-effect isn't my point really. I am basically just advocating less over-excitement and rushing of releases. I am more of this mindset:

 

  Quote

 

Most of it never made the cut. “It takes a strong discipline to erase 80% of the music you record...Few have the discipline to get rid of ‘stuff’.”

 

So what are your elseq favourites and which tracks you don't care about too much (if any)?

 

I wish you the best of luck with your efforts (no sarcasm). Props for your "I'm not quite at the point I want to be yet...". I like that.

 

Oh hey, I definitely agree with regards to quality control, I'm not gonna just release any old shit. But part of this new project is that I'll improvise with a pattern until it starts to sound good, and that's when the track will start. From there, it evolves into something else, and I'll edit out the bad mistakes, but generally keep it to a long, constantly mutating piece. I don't feel like I'm rushing it, but I can understand your point about over-excitement.

Re: concise bangerz.. that wasn't necessarily directed to you or this thread really, just something I've experienced when I've shown my longer tracks to people in the chiptune scene (I'm making most of these tracks on nanoloop 2 on a gba).. a lot of the live chiptune scene is based on making concise dance music.. don't get me wrong, it's awesome, and something I've dabbled in, but not my thing at the moment!

As for my elseq favourites, off the top of my head.. curvcaten, 13x0 step, eastre, c7b2, mesh cinereal, latentcall, foldfree casual, spaces how v, freuleaux.. er actually most of the album tbh :P

  On 7/21/2016 at 10:50 PM, baph said:

 

  On 7/21/2016 at 9:47 PM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/21/2016 at 9:41 PM, hello spiral said:

jesus christ shut the fuck up

 

 

So many immature pussies in this community.

Way to fuck up Joyrex's SEO

 

lol

  On 7/22/2016 at 3:11 AM, modey said:

 

But part of this new project is that I'll improvise with a pattern until it starts to sound good, and that's when the track will start. From there, it evolves into something else, and I'll edit out the bad mistakes, but generally keep it to a long, constantly mutating piece. I don't feel like I'm rushing it, but I can understand your point about over-excitement.

But that is different to "unedited pieces" (as you said) of "never-evolving music" (as I said). The point is, many moments/tracks on elseq aren't really "constantly mutating pieces". TBM2 is obviously a great example but there are many more (mainly parts in tracks which if they were edited out wouldn't really hurt the tracks or even make them much better). For example Eastre starts absolutely gorgeously (breathtakingly really), the mood and sound-design is stunning but after a while all was already presented. No evolution at all, just variations of the same pattern over and over again with very subtle variations of the sounds themselves and it really doesn't go anywhere (and even that would be acceptable was it up to 10 minutes max).

Those moments on elseq reminds me of my PD jams where I would create a surprisingly good pattern or sets of ideas and I would render it in loop for 30 minutes and listen to it and not being bored at all while listening to it all the time. But then I realize that it is a combination of my sense of accomplishment and freshness and curiosity of what I was personally able to create which drives my motivation to keep listening. That whole context. But I realize that a random listener without the experience of the process itself would be very probably bored to death and that is why I don't release something like that.

I also struggle extremely with situations when I realize some stunning ideas were literally wasted on an overall bad track. Sometimes I hear those otherwise bad artists coming up with excellent ideas and I regret that somebody better didn't get the chance to do it more justice. Autechre are of course not one of those bad artists, but they have definitely managed to waste some absolutely incredible ideas on a some very under-produced tracks on elseq in my honest opinion.

Some very good points there. I personally enjoy repetition; I'm on a never-ending quest to find a (non-doom) metal band who plays the same riff over and over for 10–20 minutes, for example (cf. this example I created).. so perhaps we may have to agree to disagree on that :D

But I understand. As much as I'd love to listen to a static repeating loop for 30mins, some change is good. To me, the tracks in elseq generally have enough variation for me to enjoy without getting bored. I'm very much fine with it being a lot more sprawling than regular Autechre releases.

I'm, uhh, glad elseq exists. it seems like a waste of energy to mull over 'what could've been', regarding a release. or series of releases

I think your opinion might change over time. Funnily enough, one of the main stumbling blocks for getting into Autechre to begin with for me was the track lengths and a perceived lack of evolution! There have always been some frustrating Autechre tracks for me for a variety of reasons, and there are a couple on here that get a bit long in the tooth for me (Eastre for example). But, as a release I don't hear this as being "unedited" at all. It did kind of sound that way initially, but now I hear a similar level of attention to detail as other releases.

Their music has always been pretty repetitive though.. their output up to maybe chiastic slide was even more repetitive than this stuff imo. Again, I don't have a problem with it at all, but repetition has kinda been their thing since the beginning..

  On 7/22/2016 at 7:56 AM, modey said:

Their music has always been pretty repetitive though.. their output up to maybe chiastic slide was even more repetitive than this stuff imo. Again, I don't have a problem with it at all, but repetition has kinda been their thing since the beginning..

Yeah, I agree with this absolutely.

I like TBM2. Also, the title makes me think of True (Norwegian) Black Metal. But this is the follow-up, hence the 2.

I am the 8th person to like TMB2.

It feels good.

yeah what's not to like about TBM2?

  On 7/22/2016 at 7:56 AM, modey said:

Their music has always been pretty repetitive though.. their output up to maybe chiastic slide was even more repetitive than this stuff imo. Again, I don't have a problem with it at all, but repetition has kinda been their thing since the beginning..

ex - fucking - actly.

elseq is just ae doing what they do best, exceptional only being the scope (and general accomplishment imo). no idea what the fuzz about their allegedly new found "jamminess" is about (in praise and criticism alike), they pretty much always were heavily influenced by improvisational disciplines like scratching etc., no secret.

(regardless i'd also still bet my left ball the majority of this release is edited as fuck)

IMO all autechre albums would have been 3 hours long if that was the capacity of a CD.

Now free from the constraints of multiples of 80 minutes, they can release tracks at whatever lengths they like.

Quaristice could have easily been a 4 hour long jam album, and kinda was once you add in the quadrangle stuff. I guess that was them testing the water.

  On 7/22/2016 at 4:24 AM, modey said:

Some very good points there. I personally enjoy repetition; I'm on a never-ending quest to find a (non-doom) metal band who plays the same riff over and over for 10–20 minutes, for example (cf. this example I created).. so perhaps we may have to agree to disagree on that :D

 

But I understand. As much as I'd love to listen to a static repeating loop for 30mins, some change is good. To me, the tracks in elseq generally have enough variation for me to enjoy without getting bored. I'm very much fine with it being a lot more sprawling than regular Autechre releases.

Don't get me wrong, I love repetition. But to me there is "repetition" and "repetition". Repetition with changing, evolving timbers, evolving loudness, evolving accents on different notes, or Meshuggah-like tribal-like repetition is what I am really into. But I can't find much of that on elseq tbh.

  On 7/22/2016 at 4:24 AM, modey said:

the same riff over and over for 10–20 minutes, for example (cf. this example I created)...

I can imagine this being very good was it played live (drums and guitars having varying accents and timbers, notes leaking in various lengths to each other due to playing imperfections, various subtle physical noises caused by hitting strings differently etc.) and as I hear, even you introduced some kind of evolving patterns in the background. Btw, not a bad idea at all, I like its potential and energy (the tempo helps a lot) although it still misses something that would make it finished imo. I love these walls of sounds though so I believe we are not that much on different pages.

Enjoying the discussion btw.

  On 7/22/2016 at 1:22 PM, Blank said:

 

  On 7/22/2016 at 4:24 AM, barbara planar said:

I'm, uhh, glad elseq exists. it seems like a waste of energy to mull over 'what could've been', regarding a release. or series of releases

Yeah I agree, like I'm always happy to settle with what the artist has given us, whether it's a song or an experimentation - it's fun watching and listening to people's progression in the creative fields! "Wasted potential" is incredibly subjective (and kinda rude imo)...

 

Out of curiosity Jev, have you listened to any of Brian Eno's generative ambient stuff?

 

I agree it is absolutely subjective, Blank and that it is a quite a statement (that may sound rude) but I take music really seriously (as you all probably know by this time).

I haven't listened to anz of Eno's generative ambient stuff, can you recommend something in the context of this discussion? Thanks, mate.

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A question for people who enjoys TBM2:

Are you basing your opinion on actually sitting down with the music and fully concentrating on every second it has to offer without any other distractions (browsing web, cooking, driving a car, watching some visual stuff, looking around your room impatiently, doing drugs, drinking, talking with friends, playing games etc.)? Please be honest. Very interested.

  On 7/22/2016 at 7:56 AM, modey said:

Their music has always been pretty repetitive though.. their output up to maybe chiastic slide was even more repetitive than this stuff imo. Again, I don't have a problem with it at all, but repetition has kinda been their thing since the beginning..

most of the songs they've released that push the length all change significantly enough to never feel repetitive (sublimit, irlite, cloundline)

And the majority of the long forms on elseq don't come off as too repetitive to me either

I don't expect to change anyone's mind on this though. If you dig eastre in full, then great

  On 7/22/2016 at 4:07 PM, WNS000 said:

 

 

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A question for people who enjoys TBM2:

 

Are you basing your opinion on actually sitting down with the music and fully concentrating on every second it has to offer without any other distractions (browsing web, cooking, driving a car, watching some visual stuff, looking around your room impatiently, doing drugs, drinking, talking with friends, playing games etc.)? Please be honest. Very interested.

 

I'm not sure who's really doing much listening to music under all those conditions unless they're trapped in a closet but I listened to it yesterday on a fairly isolated footbridge over a small river surrounded by fields and trees as my only distraction and it was pretty sweet there

  On 7/22/2016 at 4:42 PM, nyr22 said:

 

  On 7/22/2016 at 4:07 PM, WNS000 said:

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A question for people who enjoys TBM2:

 

Are you basing your opinion on actually sitting down with the music and fully concentrating on every second it has to offer without any other distractions (browsing web, cooking, driving a car, watching some visual stuff, looking around your room impatiently, doing drugs, drinking, talking with friends, playing games etc.)? Please be honest. Very interested.

 

 

I'm not sure who's really doing much listening to music under all those conditions unless they're trapped in a closet but I listened to it yesterday on a fairly isolated footbridge over a small river surrounded by fields and trees as my only distraction and it was pretty sweet there

 

I do. Soundtrack scenarios are not valid in my book when rating music (which is not to say that I don't listen to music in various conditions, I just don't rate it in such conditions).

  On 7/22/2016 at 4:53 PM, WNS000 said:

 

  On 7/22/2016 at 4:42 PM, nyr22 said:

 

  On 7/22/2016 at 4:07 PM, WNS000 said:

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A question for people who enjoys TBM2:

 

Are you basing your opinion on actually sitting down with the music and fully concentrating on every second it has to offer without any other distractions (browsing web, cooking, driving a car, watching some visual stuff, looking around your room impatiently, doing drugs, drinking, talking with friends, playing games etc.)? Please be honest. Very interested.

 

 

I'm not sure who's really doing much listening to music under all those conditions unless they're trapped in a closet but I listened to it yesterday on a fairly isolated footbridge over a small river surrounded by fields and trees as my only distraction and it was pretty sweet there

 

 

I do. Soundtrack scenarios are not valid in my book when rating music (which is not to say that I don't listen to music in various conditions, I just don't rate it in such conditions).

 

So for visual stuff you mean some sort of visual entertainment or you have to close your eyes for rating?

That's a pretty scientific approach but I guess for rating purposes you have to be strict if you're actually going to try rank music against other music

I've never really seriously rated anything, I approach most music from an artistic/medicinal/metaphysical perspective, sometimes something might not grab me but 5 years later it could be my favourite album, but if I concentrate too much on it when I'm first hearing it it's easy for me to overthink it and be disappointed or overly satisfied only to be worn out on it after a month - when ICBYD first came out it sounded terrible but soon became a favorite, and I didn't realize the genius of Notorious B.I.G. until about 8 years after he was dead despite hearing him all the time starting in '93 - also took me years to like reggae/dub or jazz

  On 7/22/2016 at 4:07 PM, WNS000 said:

 

 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

A question for people who enjoys TBM2:

 

Are you basing your opinion on actually sitting down with the music and fully concentrating on every second it has to offer without any other distractions (browsing web, cooking, driving a car, watching some visual stuff, looking around your room impatiently, doing drugs, drinking, talking with friends, playing games etc.)? Please be honest. Very interested.

<- exposed. if i wasn't so superficial i'd hate TBM, too.

It's a cracking little track - Like trying to see how much differing melodic content you can create from just this one 4 second hippetyhoppety loop through comb filtering and other tricks