Massive disappointments from artists you love

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Z687XnigaLs

Man, look how "grunge" he is!

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/images/albums/32940.jpg-thumbl

antigrunge imo

pinkerton blows i think we already had this discussion in this thread actually. It is the classic example of second album syndrome becoming ridiculously over-hyped by bad 00s online music journalism. "PINKERTON IS ACTUALLY BETTER THAN BLUE: BECAUSE ITS DARK AND NOT HAPPY - A REEXAMINATION BY RYAN SCHREIBER"

edit yes:

  On 8/30/2016 at 1:24 AM, dr lopez said:

Whoever said plaid is a dumb idiot.

Weezer i guess but Pinkerton suxks too now that i think about it

  On 9/7/2016 at 7:07 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 9/7/2016 at 8:43 AM, keanu reeves said:

 

  On 9/7/2016 at 12:59 AM, LimpyLoo said:

I thought the first two Weezer albums were as good as music can possibly get...

 

...and then they turned the back on their fans and never made a good album again

they made one decent album, which is honestly not that great. ugly bland grunge guitars and boring riffage. buddy holly is probably the best weezer song. pinkerton stinks, as overrated as it gets plus it spearheaded whiny diluted emo music and the lyrics are creepy as fuck.

Pinkerton stinks?

I mean, my opinion aside, these days it regularly makes 'best of all time' lists...and it's not a conspiracy...it's a masterful album on every level

 

And to call it "grunge"...that makes it pretty easy to not take you seriously...this isn't grunge music lol...it has more to do with the hair metal than it does with grunge

 

And the blue album is perfect (and no it's not grunge either)

 

i said grunge guitars dude. the guitars are ugly and bland and uninteresting. we'll call it "90s guitar sound" then. i find the vocals uninteresting too. the lyrics are socially retarded, almost as bad as pinkerton. there are some fun moments but they're moments. the blue album is not "the best pop album of the 90s" or whatever. it isn't a "perfect record". and i didn't say weezer was a grunge band. also they literally have nothing to do with hair metal. please listen to hair metal. then tell me weezer are taking from hair metal bands. that's a music journalism lie just like putting pinkerton in the top ten albums of the 90s above the orb or aphex or even something like in utero, a ragged guitar album aimed at the mainstream that actually feels subversive. pinkerton fucking sucks.

Nah, I think it has way more to do with expectations...more 'Drukqs' syndrome than whatever you're talking about...

People filter and categorize information based on ideology, expectation and prejudice...this is why many great things are initially hated (ideas, music, art...take your pick)....

Why wasn't Drukqs immediately recognized as a great (or at least decent) record? People couldn't hear through their own initial expectations and prejudices, that's why...

Edit: @ Lopez

  On 9/7/2016 at 7:27 PM, keanu reeves said:

 

  On 9/7/2016 at 7:07 PM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 9/7/2016 at 8:43 AM, keanu reeves said:

 

  On 9/7/2016 at 12:59 AM, LimpyLoo said:

I thought the first two Weezer albums were as good as music can possibly get...

 

...and then they turned the back on their fans and never made a good album again

they made one decent album, which is honestly not that great. ugly bland grunge guitars and boring riffage. buddy holly is probably the best weezer song. pinkerton stinks, as overrated as it gets plus it spearheaded whiny diluted emo music and the lyrics are creepy as fuck.

Pinkerton stinks?

I mean, my opinion aside, these days it regularly makes 'best of all time' lists...and it's not a conspiracy...it's a masterful album on every level

 

And to call it "grunge"...that makes it pretty easy to not take you seriously...this isn't grunge music lol...it has more to do with the hair metal than it does with grunge

 

And the blue album is perfect (and no it's not grunge either)

i said grunge guitars dude. the guitars are ugly and bland and uninteresting. we'll call it "90s guitar sound" then. i find the vocals uninteresting too. the lyrics are socially retarded, almost as bad as pinkerton. there are some fun moments but they're moments. the blue album is not "the best pop album of the 90s" or whatever. it isn't a "perfect record". and i didn't say weezer was a grunge band. also they literally have nothing to do with hair metal. please listen to hair metal. then tell me weezer are taking from hair metal bands. that's a music journalism lie just like putting pinkerton in the top ten albums of the 90s above the orb or aphex or even something like in utero, a ragged guitar album aimed at the mainstream that actually feels subversive. pinkerton fucking sucks.

Dude, where do you think Weezer's guitar solos come from?

Your gambit of "psssh, you don't understand hair metal" is really dumb...read a fucking Rivers Cuomo interview where he talks about copying fucking Yngwie Malmsteen licks for Weezer solos and then come back and tell me they have nothing to do with hair metal

"Also they have literally nothing to do with hair metal"

You are talking out of your ass (to double down on your previous talking out of your ass)

  On 9/7/2016 at 7:18 PM, dr lopez said:

 

pinkerton blows i think we already had this discussion in this thread actually. It is the classic example of second album syndrome becoming ridiculously over-hyped by bad 00s online music journalism. "PINKERTON IS ACTUALLY BETTER THAN BLUE: BECAUSE ITS DARK AND NOT HAPPY - A REEXAMINATION BY RYAN SCHREIBER"

lol, true

also I misread that as "bad boy 00s online music journalism"

like I said emo and entry level indie kids said they liked Pinkerton in the early/mid-00s

I was disappointed by most of Beck's output after Mutations. He'll always be one of my very favorites, but really, The Information is the only one of his albums I've truly loved since then. Guero and Modern Guilt are pretty good, but they're missing something..... I don't like Midnite Vultures, Sea Change, or Morning Phase......

...Quite honestly, I was disappointed with Radiohead's A Moon Shaped Pool. It's too "ballad-y" .... Again, a good album that's missing something.

i always felt the information and modern guilt should have switched producers lol. information had complete shit songs but great production and modern guilt had great songs but danger mouse really fucked the pooch on that one wow. 

  On 9/7/2016 at 7:36 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Nah, I think it has way more to do with expectations...more 'Drukqs' syndrome than whatever you're talking about...

 

People filter and categorize information based on ideology, expectation and prejudice...this is why many great things are initially hated (ideas, music, art...take your pick)....

 

Why wasn't Drukqs immediately recognized as a great (or at least decent) record? People couldn't hear through their own initial expectations and prejudices, that's why...

 

Edit: @ Lopez

does this also work the other way round? like if at the time of its release critics praised drukqs as great would it be bc they are blinded by expectation and prejudice?

That happens a lot...you look back and go "what the fuck was I thinking?"

That's why shit makes sense at the time, but might look ridiculous later

I know you're mocking me as usual, alco, but this is what the psychology literature seems to suggest about perception...we don't just passively absorb sensations and take them for what they objectively are...we merciless filter sense information based on goals, ideology, expectation...I'm not just randomly theorizing...I mean, maybe I'm wrong that this applies to Pinkerton or Drukqs, but I'm not just making shit up...

  On 9/7/2016 at 8:18 PM, LimpyLoo said:

That happens a lot...you look back and go "what the fuck was I thinking?"

That's why shit makes sense at the time, but might look ridiculous later

 

I know you're mocking me as usual, alco, but this is what the psychology literature seems to suggest about perception...we don't just passively absorb sensations and take them for what they objectively are...we merciless filter sense information based on goals, ideology, expectation...I'm not just randomly theorizing...I mean, maybe I'm wrong that this applies to Pinkerton or Drukqs, but I'm not just making shit up...

Psychology and neurological facts tend to be often ignored on WATMM grounds...

the musulmen were very good until they went mainstream in europe, kinda killed it for me tbh

The song "Cleopatra" was amazing and heartbreaking, I thought

https://youtube.com/watch?v=FHD9NV9Ohac

I just don't understand how the dude who wrote this also wrote "I'm Your Daddy (ft. Kenny G)" or "Snuggies" and blamed the fans for being too closed-minded

  On 9/7/2016 at 8:18 PM, LimpyLoo said:

That happens a lot...you look back and go "what the fuck was I thinking?"

That's why shit makes sense at the time, but might look ridiculous later

 

I know you're mocking me as usual, alco, but this is what the psychology literature seems to suggest about perception...we don't just passively absorb sensations and take them for what they objectively are...we merciless filter sense information based on goals, ideology, expectation...I'm not just randomly theorizing...I mean, maybe I'm wrong that this applies to Pinkerton or Drukqs, but I'm not just making shit up...

FYI I was not mocking you by any means. I think you're a little paranoid about me or something. We certainly clash in political threads from time to time and I'll definitely never forgive you for the anal poop episode but my present intention was just to have you flesh out your argument a bit more. I see nothing objectionable about your notion that people's expectations, ideological underpinnings, etc determine their perceptions of a record. however, I do think we should be careful to avoid merely condemning other people's positions by reducing them to mere contingencies while simultaneously holding our own views to be the correct ones, free of nefarious unconscious influence. That's all I was getting at.

No mockery intended my dude.

  On 9/7/2016 at 8:49 PM, keanu reeves said:

the musulmen were very good until they went mainstream in europe, kinda killed it for me tbh

haha

  On 9/7/2016 at 8:03 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 9/7/2016 at 7:36 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Nah, I think it has way more to do with expectations...more 'Drukqs' syndrome than whatever you're talking about...

 

People filter and categorize information based on ideology, expectation and prejudice...this is why many great things are initially hated (ideas, music, art...take your pick)....

 

Why wasn't Drukqs immediately recognized as a great (or at least decent) record? People couldn't hear through their own initial expectations and prejudices, that's why...

 

Edit: @ Lopez

does this also work the other way round? like if at the time of its release critics praised drukqs as great would it be bc they are blinded by expectation and prejudice?

IMHO this is exactly what happened with Syro.  Everyone was so blueballed for new afx that it was going to be adored no matter what, and nobody seemed to mind or care that it was completely paint-by-numbers afx.

/HO

  On 9/7/2016 at 9:12 PM, Bob Dobalina said:

 

  On 9/7/2016 at 8:03 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 9/7/2016 at 7:36 PM, LimpyLoo said:

Nah, I think it has way more to do with expectations...more 'Drukqs' syndrome than whatever you're talking about...

 

People filter and categorize information based on ideology, expectation and prejudice...this is why many great things are initially hated (ideas, music, art...take your pick)....

 

Why wasn't Drukqs immediately recognized as a great (or at least decent) record? People couldn't hear through their own initial expectations and prejudices, that's why...

 

Edit: @ Lopez

does this also work the other way round? like if at the time of its release critics praised drukqs as great would it be bc they are blinded by expectation and prejudice?

IMHO this is exactly what happened with Syro. Everyone was so blueballed for new afx that it was going to be adored no matter what, and nobody seemed to mind or care that it was completely paint-by-numbers afx.

 

/HO

I don't go quite as far as that but I see what you mean. For me Syro was a solid, beautiful release. Vintage afx tunage, a couple of really excellent, top shelf tracks. But absolutely not a work of pure genius or a masterpiece. And some people really were saying that it was, and I agree with you that such people seemed to be prejudiced toward wanting it to be that from the get go.

It's almost like when your mate gets a new girlfriend and he thinks everything she does is just so fucking awesome and he's in love and she's perfect but you can calmly observe she's nothing special lol.

  On 9/7/2016 at 9:15 PM, Alcofribas said:

It's almost like when your mate gets a new girlfriend and he thinks everything she does is just so fucking awesome and he's in love and she's perfect but you can calmly observe she's nothing special lol.

this made me think of something Zizek said, not sure where it was exactly, that true love is not based on someone being perfect, it's more like you see all of who someone is, and you still love them even though you see their flaws and ugly points - like, you know they are just an ordinary person, but at the same time they are the absolute for you. 

maybe it's something like that with music sometimes - you see everything that it is and isn't but you love it anyway. just because you aren't in love with something doesn't mean that other people are fooling themselves

Alco, I think it's the expression of your avatar that makes me think you're always mocking me

(My avatar seems to have a similar effect)

And just to be clear, I wasn't saying that all y'all's perceptions are muddied by prejudice, but my perceptions are crystal clear

I was just offering an alternate explanation for the "initial disappointment, later vindication" arc that some things tend to have....another finding in psychology is that knowing your cognitive biases doesn't get rid of them (and, in fact, knowing about them makes you more prone to them, as you get convinced that you're immune)

And tangentially, this is why drugs like weed and LSD actually open your mind....they inhibit the neocortex from this kinda goal-related filtering (this is partly why stoned people literally will stare at their hand for the first time since they were 3 months old)...this also relates to "apophenia" and schizophrenia and why creative people actually do seem to notice details that others don't...

Anyways...

ryan schreiber to zizek in 10 posts

  On 9/7/2016 at 9:32 PM, hoggy said:

 

  On 9/7/2016 at 9:15 PM, Alcofribas said:

It's almost like when your mate gets a new girlfriend and he thinks everything she does is just so fucking awesome and he's in love and she's perfect but you can calmly observe she's nothing special lol.

this made me think of something Zizek said, not sure where it was exactly, that true love is not based on someone being perfect, it's more like you see all of who someone is, and you still love them even though you see their flaws and ugly points - like, you know they are just an ordinary person, but at the same time they are the absolute for you.

 

maybe it's something like that with music sometimes - you see everything that it is and isn't but you love it anyway. just because you aren't in love with something doesn't mean that other people are fooling themselves

I think that's a different sentiment though. It's one thing to love something flaws and all. It's something else to proclaim it is without flaws.

There's a great deal of superlative in critical praise. Things are "perfect," "genius," "the best," "10/10" even upon first listen. I think that kind of stuff is more indicative of what people want something to be rather than accepting it for what it truly is.

But I'm a big zizek fan so isn't it precisely that I give you a high five and so on.

I'm a massive Erykah Badu fan, but I think she 'took a wrong turn back there somewhere'

Getting into bling and trap and thug shit

Like, dude, you were one of the world's true shamanic healers

Now you're dabbling with the truly shallow and worthless aspects of hip-hop

  On 9/7/2016 at 11:04 PM, LimpyLoo said:

I'm a massive Erykah Badu fan, but I think she 'took a wrong turn back there somewhere'

Getting into bling and trap and thug shit

Like, dude, you were one of the world's true shamanic healers

Now you're dabbling with the truly shallow and worthless aspects of hip-hop

I hear she's working on the soundtrack to the new Flintstones movie. She's changed her name to uh...the new name is...um, she's now called..Erykah...um...Yabadabadu

. lol wrong gif

  On 9/7/2016 at 11:10 PM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 9/7/2016 at 11:04 PM, LimpyLoo said:

I'm a massive Erykah Badu fan, but I think she 'took a wrong turn back there somewhere'

Getting into bling and trap and thug shit

Like, dude, you were one of the world's true shamanic healers

Now you're dabbling with the truly shallow and worthless aspects of hip-hop

I hear she's working on the soundtrack to the new Flintstones movie. She's changed her name to uh...the new name is...um, she's now called..Erykah...um...Yabadabadu

https://youtube.com/watch?v=bULmuDafMYM