Your pointless thoughts & observations

  On 9/25/2021 at 8:02 PM, drillkicker said:

Psychotherapy is a practice of turning people into tools that serve the current social hierarchy.  Schizophrenia is unwieldy in this setting because it constantly finds a way to escape from the prescribed treatments.

As said above, psychotherapy is repressive and schizophrenia is adaptive and uncontainable.

is this your opinion or nick land's? cause i'm not sold. in what way is psychotherapy repressive and "a practice of turning people into tools that serve the current social hierarchy"?

  On 9/25/2021 at 8:02 PM, drillkicker said:

Schizophrenia is a microcosm of human advancement, but on a much faster timeline.  Schizophrenics aren't broken, there just ahead of the rest of humanity, if we consider that human progress is characterized by the formation of different assemblages and the simultaneous dissolution of former ones.  Psychotherapy is a fascist police force over the minds of advanced individuals who have progressed too far beyond the socius.  Instead of trying to shackle and drug schizophrenics we should be learning from them; they're the prophets of cyberspace.

i'm sorry but this sounds like a load of bull. 

also, 

  On 9/25/2021 at 8:02 PM, drillkicker said:

This part is just a quote from an Artaud poem.  The connotation here is that it's best to accelerate the processes that are bringing us to a certain end instead of trying to resist them.

oh ok. cool. i've read some artaud in my youth, fucking loved it. 

plasma penis

  On 9/25/2021 at 8:02 PM, drillkicker said:

 

psychotherapy is repressive and schizophrenia is adaptive

Psychotherapy is a fascist police force over the minds of advanced individuals who have progressed too far beyond the socius.  Instead of trying to shackle and drug schizophrenics we should be learning from them; they're the prophets of cyberspace.

Drill, have you ever done any psychotherapy? 

Also, weren't you the one who was afraid you were having a stress/anxiety-enduced psychotic break? Or that you had schizophrenia? (You posted that in first world problems )

pointless thought: it is great to see you back limpy

i'm pretty strongly anti psychiatry personally but at the same time i recognize that for a lot of people it's probably exactly what they're looking for

also speaking of artaud i'm reading him rn to try to improve my francais again

btw i forgot to comment this. here's what land says:

  Quote

Schizophrenia is the pattern to Freud’s repressions, it is that which does not qualify to pass the screen of Oedipal censorship.

and here's what you said about it:

  On 9/25/2021 at 8:02 PM, drillkicker said:

As said above, psychotherapy is repressive and schizophrenia is adaptive and uncontainable.

that doesn't answer my question. what are freud's repressions, what is oedipal censorship and what's schizophrenia got to do with it? 

  On 9/26/2021 at 9:23 AM, brian trageskin said:

btw i forgot to comment this. here's what land says:

and here's what you said about it:

that doesn't answer my question. what are freud's repressions, what is oedipal censorship and what's schizophrenia got to do with it? 

this is a weird ask imo - why do you want someone on watmm to explain Freud’s theory of repression to you? just look it up dude

  On 9/26/2021 at 12:56 AM, Cryptowen said:

i'm pretty strongly anti psychiatry personally but at the same time i recognize that for a lot of people it's probably exactly what they're looking for

go off on this king

  On 9/26/2021 at 7:08 PM, Alcofribas said:

this is a weird ask imo - why do you want someone on watmm to explain Freud’s theory of repression to you? just look it up dude

no. i just wanna check if drillkicker actually understands the stuff he posts. i don't give a shit about freudian theory.

iirc oedipus complex is an unconscious urge to fuck one's mom, resulting in dad envy + every mental illness.  so oedipus censorship would be suppressing the unconscious incest urge... and apparently the author's saying ppl with schizophrenia don't do that.  He's calling them all mom fuckers.  That's what I got from it, anyway.  (As if mental illness didn't already have enough stigma attached to it...)

  On 9/26/2021 at 7:28 PM, Zephyr_Nova said:

iirc oedipus complex is an unconscious urge to fuck one's mom, resulting in dad envy

Freud's description is actually more generic, it's the child's sexual desire towards the opposite-sex parent and hatred of the same-sex parent. The thing is that the theory is based on Sophocles' Oedipus Rex, where Oedipus' parents are foretold at his birth that he will kill his father and marry his mother, and he is sent away to avoid the prophecy - but of course the prophecy will be fulfilled, although Oedipus doesn't know that until the end; when he investigates who killed his father, and when he and his mother find out, the mother hangs herself and Oedipus pokes out his eyes. For Freud to jump from a Greek play to incest murder porn is probably due to the copious amounts of cocaine he medicated himself (and his patients with neurasthenia) with.

  On 9/26/2021 at 7:25 PM, brian trageskin said:

no. i just wanna check if drillkicker actually understands the stuff he posts. i don't give a shit about freudian theory.

that’s so cool

  On 9/26/2021 at 7:28 PM, Zephyr_Nova said:

iirc oedipus complex is an unconscious urge to fuck one's mom, resulting in dad envy + every mental illness.  so oedipus censorship would be suppressing the unconscious incest urge... and apparently the author's saying ppl with schizophrenia don't do that.  He's calling them all mom fuckers.  That's what I got from it, anyway.  (As if mental illness didn't already have enough stigma attached to it...)

 After Freud, the Object Relations folks de-literalized the Oedipal stuff:

"Father" = superstructure of norms, laws, punishments, traditions, expectations, etc

"Mother" - Nourishment, intimacy, acceptance/validation, boobies, non-neglect, etc

  On 9/26/2021 at 7:20 PM, Alcofribas said:

go off on this king

i'll acknowledge at the outset that my perspective may well just be a product of my particular worldview (ie, as someone who's been irrationally wary of any sort of authority figure since early childhood, and tends to gravitate to emotionally intense experiences as if their intensity alone gave them authenticity), but...I basically view the psychiatric apparatus as largely being used to enforce social normativity. There's this idea of the "well-adjusted" individual who fits comfortably into the existing social structure, and with that comes the implication that any negative reaction to the existing structure is a defect to be treated. The individual is made to see his negative feelings in terms of his isolated experience, his personal history, his egoic desires etc. The content of the negative feeling is to be deconstructed, or expressed within the "safe" confines of mainstream discourse. The possibility of a large number of individuals recognizing that they share these negative feelings, and could in fact fight in the name of these feelings (rather than simply making vague allusion to them in socially-permitted conversation) is stymied.

I typically see people online responding to eccentric or angry outbursts with "seek help!"...the question is, seek help doing what? seek help becoming comfortable with a world that makes you uncomfortable? seek help learning to watch the news without gagging? seek help learning how to be "chill"? imo the implication in all this is that the primary purpose of life is to just be comfortable, to fit in, to accept the hand that's been dealt to you. for me this is not the purpose of life at all. for me the purpose of life is to work to uphold an ideal - be that ideal aesthetic, moral, political, social, etc. (i'm not saying it should be the same ideal for everyone). for me there's a sense of wanting to be true to an inner feeling - whether or not that means my life is comfortable, or accepted by others, or financially viable. in fact i'm pretty sure that most things i've accomplished that i'm actually proud of, most things that i look back on fondly many years later, were the product of tremendous inner tension & emotional malaise. Periods of my life where i've just been "chill" felt like a year, two years, five years going by as a blur, until i reached a point where i just got frustrated with the artificiality of it all

But! I also recognize that simply wanting to stare unblinking at the sickness of lfie isn't going to bring about massive social change (or even meaningful artistic output). i recognize that there's a certain kind of individual (myself) for whom these states hold quite an appeal. You're always going to have your dissidents, your would-be revolutionaries, your hermits, your malcontents etc who will naturally gravitate to these outlier positions, whether or not their efforts succeed in bringing about any kind of social or personal transformation. You're also going to have a certain kind of individual who really does just want to be normal, to fit in, to have a good time - and there's nothing shameful about that. I think for that kind of individual something like psychiatry probably makes a lot of sense (heck, maybe they even make better art when they feel more "stable" and not bogged down by their emotions). Then you also have a great number of individuals who are somewhere in the middle - they recognize that their might be some deeper truth to their discontent, but at the same time they recognize that there's something to be said for making an effort to fit in, and to get over yourself. For them, it's a process of determining to what degree they indulge their eccentricities, and to what degree they attempt to conform to an imperfect social machine. imo this is what most people are doing most of the time, and it's only on rare ocassions that things tip over, and a large number suddenly feel compelled to FIGHT DA POWAH

also i more or less agree with most of what Deleuze & Guattari have to say on the matter. Nick Land as well, but he's also a case study in how trying to rise up & strike the lightning can have some unintended ripple effects on a person's life

Wow, a lot of responses.  Obviously I'm not very good at summarizing philosophy, because this passage makes a lot more sense in the context of Deleuze and Guattari's ideas.  I'm not scared of schizophrenia because of what it is but because people who have it are incompatible with "normal" society and become victims because of it.

Edit:  I'm going to try not to attempt any more summaries of philosophical concepts anymore.

  On 9/26/2021 at 7:28 PM, Zephyr_Nova said:

iirc oedipus complex is an unconscious urge to fuck one's mom, resulting in dad envy + every mental illness.  so oedipus censorship would be suppressing the unconscious incest urge... and apparently the author's saying ppl with schizophrenia don't do that.  He's calling them all mom fuckers.  That's what I got from it, anyway.  (As if mental illness didn't already have enough stigma attached to it...)

See, this is an example of how the passage makes more sense with prior knowledge of D+G.  Their claim is that the Oedipus complex isn't a natural part of human development, but that it's actually something that happens as a response to socially enforced repression.  That's why the word Oedipus is used the way it is in poststructural philosophy.

Edit:  oops I already broke my rule

yeah i guess i'm just prejudiced against anything related to freud and psychoanalysis, because his concepts are unfalsifiable. maybe these french philosophers were logically consistent in their reasoning and came up with interesting solutions to philosophical problems or whatever, i don't know. i'd need to read their stuff to find that out (which i'm not gonna do). but at the end of the day, are deleuze and guattari's concepts falsifiable? that's what i'm interested in. 

  On 9/27/2021 at 9:41 AM, brian trageskin said:

yeah i guess i'm just prejudiced against anything related to freud and psychoanalysis, because his concepts are unfalsifiable. maybe these french philosophers were logically consistent in their reasoning and came up with interesting solutions to philosophical problems or whatever, i don't know. i'd need to read their stuff to find that out (which i'm not gonna do). but at the end of the day, are deleuze and guattari's concepts falsifiable? that's what i'm interested in. 

Well at least he tried. Biology before Darwin/Evolution was also a bit weird.

No offers/buyers on discogs for almost 2 months. Almost all the stuff I have is set to allow offers but in my experience it’s more common for people to just pay the asking price. Today within a 60 minute timespan I get 2 offers on 2 totally unrelated releases. Both offerers are from Portugal, I’m in NL  

  On 9/27/2021 at 11:54 AM, user said:

No offers/buyers on discogs for almost 2 months.

What do you have for sale? Link?

  On 9/27/2021 at 9:41 AM, brian trageskin said:

yeah i guess i'm just prejudiced against anything related to freud and psychoanalysis, because his concepts are unfalsifiable. maybe these french philosophers were logically consistent in their reasoning and came up with interesting solutions to philosophical problems or whatever, i don't know. i'd need to read their stuff to find that out (which i'm not gonna do). but at the end of the day, are deleuze and guattari's concepts falsifiable? that's what i'm interested in. 

Deleuze and Guattari aren't logical philosophers.  Poststructuralism isn't concerned with the truth, it's about finding ideas that produce interesting results.  Logic can always be used to support completely disparate and conflicting beliefs about reality, but what's more fruitful is analyzing these beliefs themselves, and how they act against human society and against each other.  They call this kind of thinking schizoanalysis.  Logical systems always break apart at the seams, but schizoanalysis transcends logic, it adapts and repeats eternally.

yeah i guess i'm really not interested in philosophies that aren't concerned with the truth, lol.

have you heard of the sokal affair btw? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

  On 9/27/2021 at 9:40 PM, brian trageskin said:

yeah i guess i'm really not interested in philosophies that aren't concerned with the truth, lol.

have you heard of the sokal affair btw? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

Why do you insist on bringing me into your conversations?  Find someone else to talk with about the sokal affair.  Message @Cryptowenor something.

  On 9/27/2021 at 10:15 PM, drillkicker said:

Why do you insist on bringing me into your conversations? 

the reason is simple: you're the author of flamboyant postmodern-infused posts and i'm just checking if you truly understand the meaning of what you post or if you just parrot what others say. the sokal affair is an interesting case in this regard. my goal isn't to own you or anything btw. 

  On 9/27/2021 at 10:31 PM, brian trageskin said:

the reason is simple: you're the author of flamboyant postmodern-infused posts and i'm just checking if you truly understand the meaning of what you post or if you just parrot what others say. the sokal affair is an interesting case in this regard. my goal isn't to own you or anything btw. 

OK but what does the sokal affair have to do with me or anything I've said

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