How does the World view Israel these days?

get ragnar up in this thread, NOW

The final battleground.

  On 5/16/2018 at 12:34 PM, MIXL2 said:

get ragnar up in this thread, NOW

I generally like Jewish people

awaits delet

literally every Jewish person I've met irl has been awesome. sorry guys

It parallels America a lot, this overwrought right-wing government and loud fanatical sentiment derailing so much progress. I can sympathize with the Israeli who has to carry the burden of their country's actions on the shoulders, much like an American abroad. As a nation itself it's still an admirable county. I think it was a much more acceptable sentiment to support Israel by default in the past but we've been way past that point since the early 00s. It's unacceptable for the West to continue blindly supporting them as they do now. It's criminal that 60+ civilians were killed in protests and talking heads in the US not just brushed it aside but even excused it. 

While I am not a Israeli apologist these days, and I feel like I have been in the past, I do support their existence and still struggle with the fact that it's a lovely and resilient county with great people and a diverse population. The later fact is something of an elephant in the room for many of the more extreme and/or casual supporters of the country - people who are so anti-Palestinian and pro-Israel or ignorant of the complicated and nuanced aspects of Israeli history including the fact that they've had secular leaders, socialist governments, and many leaders who were strong believers in a two-state solution. I can assure the average American has no idea that Israel Arab citizens exist. Most have no idea how restricted the populations of Gaza and the West Bank are via sanctions, curfews, policing, etc. The days before settlements run amok and an obscene right-wing evangelical lobby in the US seem like ages ago: you literally cannot criticize Israel in any way without becoming a political pariah. 

I'm not really sure when it all turned around but I suppose the Lebanon Invasion is when Israel shifted from being an underdog to a increasingly oppressive entity. I am a big military history buff, and the IDF is an incredibly fascinating army historically, but that includes less glamorous incidents. Seeing Waltz_with_Bashir was a turning point for me in that regard. 

the question is only asked cause we know the answer already

1948 was a turning point for me

  On 5/16/2018 at 4:15 PM, joshuatx said:

It parallels America a lot, this overwrought right-wing government and loud fanatical sentiment derailing so much progress. I can sympathize with the Israeli who has to carry the burden of their country's actions on the shoulders, much like an American abroad. As a nation itself it's still an admirable county. I think it was a much more acceptable sentiment to support Israel by default in the past but we've been way past that point since the early 00s. It's unacceptable for the West to continue blindly supporting them as they do now. It's criminal that 60+ civilians were killed in protests and talking heads in the US not just brushed it aside but even excused it. 

 

While I am not a Israeli apologist these days, and I feel like I have been in the past, I do support their existence and still struggle with the fact that it's a lovely and resilient county with great people and a diverse population. The later fact is something of an elephant in the room for many of the more extreme and/or casual supporters of the country - people who are so anti-Palestinian and pro-Israel or ignorant of the complicated and nuanced aspects of Israeli history including the fact that they've had secular leaders, socialist governments, and many leaders who were strong believers in a two-state solution. I can assure the average American has no idea that Israel Arab citizens exist. Most have no idea how restricted the populations of Gaza and the West Bank are via sanctions, curfews, policing, etc. The days before settlements run amok and an obscene right-wing evangelical lobby in the US seem like ages ago: you literally cannot criticize Israel in any way without becoming a political pariah. 

 

I'm not really sure when it all turned around but I suppose the Lebanon Invasion is when Israel shifted from being an underdog to a increasingly oppressive entity. I am a big military history buff, and the IDF is an incredibly fascinating army historically, but that includes less glamorous incidents. Seeing Waltz_with_Bashir was a turning point for me in that regard. 

see now this is a nuanced post, it's so conflated with the gay frogs and everything tho it turns into an instant clusterfuck, and I don't even want to talk about it anymore. Just pick another random country out of a hat plz

I'm not a big fan of Zionism.

https://www.randomlists.com/random-country

south korea came up, let's talk about the weird psuedo-shaman politican there and nepotism in corporate world

I love Israel and it should be a matter of course that this country exists but I would gladly grant every Israelite a government that at least remotely enables them to live in peace with their neighbours. Their current right-wing militarist ultraconservative government is bad for the peace of the country. By the way Israel is not a state of the Jews. The majority of the country's population is Jewish, that doesn't mean that the country itself is Jewish. It's a secular nation just like the USA is a secular nation and not a christian country. Those ignorant people who think that criticizing Israel is antisemitism are completely wrong. The way the clash between the Muslim minority and the Jewish majority is approached by Israeli government is a desaster

  On 5/16/2018 at 4:59 PM, darreichungsform said:

I love Israel and it should be a matter of course that this country exists but I would gladly grant every Israelite a government that at least remotely enables them to live in peace with their neighbours. Their current right-wing militarist ultraconservative government is bad for the peace of the country. By the way Israel is not a state of the Jews. The majority of the country's population is Jewish, that doesn't mean that the country itself is Jewish. It's a secular nation just like the USA is a secular nation and not a christian country. Those ignorant people who think that criticizing Israel is antisemitism are completely wrong. The way the clash between the Muslim minority and the Jewish majority is approached by Israeli government is a desaster

This. I think it's important to note too how the Israel-Arab conflict was nationalism-charged for many decades, lot of people conflate the current conflict to simplified Jewish versus Muslim lines. 

It's an apartheid state. Where the Palestinians are basically subhuman slaves that should be locked away when not used. It's pathetic.

The morning after the US presidential election an older (I'd say early 60s) Israeli couple came in to where I work.  It was their first trip to the USA ever and they'd arrived an hour earlier.  We'd hardly even finished saying hello to each other when the husband put his hand on my shoulder and said "we understand what it's like to have a government that doesn't represent you."

I'm largely ignorant on modern geopolitics, but I know enough that the Netanyahu regime and the GOP here in the US have an unbreakable bond halfway across the globe. Basically I have nothing against Israeli citizens, but I abhor how the government treats Palestinians and the fact that our government keeps supplying arms to them. It's much like how MNU treat the Poleepkwa ("Prawns") in District 9.

  On 5/16/2018 at 4:40 PM, clarktrent said:

This is a pretty good primer on the state of things. She's dead on about how much is done to prevent people from having any idea how bad it is for the Palestinians day-to-day and how warped, misleading, and even flat out fictional a lot of struggles are for Israelis in general. 

  On 5/16/2018 at 5:11 PM, goDel said:

It's an apartheid state.

I can only hope there's a breaking point. I'm sure many are ignorant of South African policies got worse and worse after WW2 in it's oppression and segregation. Literally ramped up as the Civil Rights Movement in the US began to achieve success. Yet the late 80s / early 90s are decades past and many probably have no idea it was strongest in the same era as the Berlin Wall falling. 

All the Israelis I've known have had awful breath, other than that they're alright. One of them had this party trick where he'd chew right through a champagne glass, it was pretty impressive.

To the victor belong the spoils of the enemy.

suddenly theres a bunch of woke israeli supprters seeing the light...we've gone too far now

https://twitter.com/PhilipEliasoph

cool dude-o

Israel AKA the middle eastern disruption wing of the west

From the view of an American with a limited knowledge of its history, Israel comes off as a high school kid that got his ass kicked in high school and you felt really sorry for him, but his insecurities grew over time, so he became a cop and is getting away with some pretty heinous shit.

  On 5/16/2018 at 6:27 PM, AJW said:

All the Israelis I've known have had awful breath, other than that they're alright. One of them had this party trick where he'd chew right through a champagne glass, it was pretty impressive.

The last meeting I had with an Israeli coworker had me leaning away so I wouldn't get the full brunt of his breath. I'm guessing too much coffee/not enough water. He's also a subtle misogynist, which seems to be par the course for the men I've met from there.

"Hamas says most of protesters killed by Israel in Gaza were members

9 hours ago"

How will the average Israel bashing watmmer respond:

A. "but but that's actually Mossad posing as Hamas saying that"

B. "Hamas isnt a terrorist group though..."

C. "Yeah but still... 62 dead on one side vs 0 dead on the other"