Brexit :(

  On 12/4/2018 at 10:31 PM, Tricone RC said:

What outcome would be best for IDM?

lol

For us mainland EU-fruitcakes, a Brexit might still be the preferred option though. As all the populist morons around need to see the awful consequences of their bullshit fear and anger inducing nonsense. Brexit could set a nice example for the rest of us! So please, get on with your journey into the abyss. We'll thank you greatly for your, eh, courage and ...euh... determinism. The economic hit we'll take, will be quite manageable.

Plus, personally, the EMA moving to Amsterdam from London will be a very good thing. So please, don't stall this damned process.

Most of the people who wanted to leave the EU with half a brain would vote stay in another referendum 

I think if there was another vote it would be 70/30 and the whole thing would be binned

we will see about all of this but its certainly exciting

  On 12/5/2018 at 1:14 AM, goDel said:

For us mainland EU-fruitcakes, a Brexit might still be the preferred option though. As all the populist morons around need to see the awful consequences of their bullshit fear and anger inducing nonsense. Brexit could set a nice example for the rest of us! So please, get on with your journey into the abyss. We'll thank you greatly for your, eh, courage and ...euh... determinism. The economic hit we'll take, will be quite manageable.

 

Plus, personally, the EMA moving to Amsterdam from London will be a very good thing. So please, don't stall this damned process.

O you brits...

How about all that British bullshit with respect to the EU for the last decades? Do you really expect us to not notice and be our utmost friendly about it? Of course not. Just jump into that abyss already.

It's not like you would have stopped other countries if they decided to jump ship even though it was against their own self interest. Would you - Britain - have even cared? In the sense of protecting the European union from a historic perspective, or something?

;D

Seriously though: would you expect your fellow brits to even care one second? I'd be honestly surprised if theyd even notice or have a vague sense of interest.

I lost faith in our MPs following the expenses scandal in 2009 (and probably before that actually).

I do not fully align with any of the political parties and this whole brexit shitstorm has been handled so poorly by everyone involved. 

From the badly fought referendum to the way the whole past 2 years has played out, lies and deceit from all parties and views.

Even now the government is trying (and failing) to withhold critical legal advice that would give all MPs the information they need to make an informed decision in the vote next week.

Whatever deal was crafted by Theresa May would be attacked by all sides, so she was doomed to fail from the start.  Nobody else wants to launch a leadership battle until all of this is over as nobody else wants to take the reigns and steer us elsewhere.  Spineless and job preserving!  The recent resignations we have seen must surely just be the start.

Agree that second referendum is off the cards. 

tl;dr

Interesting times if you like politics, tedious if you don't

  On 12/5/2018 at 12:53 PM, fletcher said:

Even now the government is trying (and failing) to withhold critical legal advice that would give all MPs the information they need to make an informed decision in the vote next week.

Turns out there was nothing in the legal advice that we didn't already know, so that was all a fuss about nothing tbqh.

  On 12/5/2018 at 2:07 PM, caze said:

 

  On 12/5/2018 at 12:53 PM, fletcher said:

Even now the government is trying (and failing) to withhold critical legal advice that would give all MPs the information they need to make an informed decision in the vote next week.

 

Turns out there was nothing in the legal advice that we didn't already know, so that was all a fuss about nothing tbqh.

 

Yeah just read that.

Could be political kicking around of the ball from the Tories, helped distract pressure away from something else.

Also just heard a summary of PMQs, and Corbyn decided not to pile on the pressure and even mention Brexit once. He is an odd man.

#1 priority should be the homeless, tories make me sick

If someone has a spine during all this, it's May. She's doing a hell of a job, seeing the circumstances she has to operate in. imo.

Also, just read an interesting article where they argued that the irony about the whole Brexit thing is that the decades before Brexit, Britain already had its ideal Brexit scenario. Being part, but not really. They already had the best of both worlds. And the past decades  from the perspective of the EU always had been a long Brexit negotiation with respect to every bit of legislation. So yeah, Britain will loose its perfect position. Whatever happens now, I'm hearing about 3 scenarios (May deal, hard brexit, or Britain remains), I hope the 'remain' scenario will be just a tiny bit different. More like a "you either really join the EU, or you're out". Because this nonsense in the past is just tiring. 

i'm certainly hoping for a remain. as i mentioned itt i'm getting my british passport basically for the sole reason of working and living in the EU. I need to move back to Finland.

  On 12/5/2018 at 2:44 PM, goDel said:

I hope the 'remain' scenario will be just a tiny bit different. More like a "you either really join the EU, or you're out". Because this nonsense in the past is just tiring. 

It won't be. If the UK does remain they will remain on exactly the same terms they were on before, i.e. they'll retain the rebate and they won't have to take the Euro, they won't be under any pressure to move towards 'ever closer union' (which is either a bogeyman spread by eurosceptics or a fantasy spread by the Germans, it can't happen without unanimity, which isn't going to happen).

What was the deal with the UK keeping the Sterling and not going to the Euro? Were there any other exceptions or nuances with the UK membership in the EU? 

  On 12/5/2018 at 4:16 PM, joshuatx said:

What was the deal with the UK keeping the Sterling and not going to the Euro? Were there any other exceptions or nuances with the UK membership in the EU? 

it's not just the UK.

19 of the EU 27 use the Euro, the following don't... then there are 6 non-EU countries / states that do use the Euro

    Quote

 

Bulgaria – Lev

Croatia – Croatian Kuna

Czech – Republic Koruna

Denmark – Kroner

Hungary – Forint

Poland – Zloty

Romania – Leu

Sweden – Krona

UK – Pound

  On 12/5/2018 at 4:49 PM, darreichungsform said:

The EU would be better off with the UK in it (if they aren't dicks and veto all the things)

 

I'd be glad if they came back

Giving them a hard time coming back and punishing them for it like it's a bad person and not an abstract apparatus that a nation is makes no sense and would only help those isolationist right-wing pricks

I agree with Phil

Needs more Phil Collins.

  On 12/5/2018 at 4:20 PM, fletcher said:

 

  On 12/5/2018 at 4:16 PM, joshuatx said:

What was the deal with the UK keeping the Sterling and not going to the Euro? Were there any other exceptions or nuances with the UK membership in the EU? 

it's not just the UK.

 

19 of the EU 27 use the Euro, the following don't... then there are 6 non-EU countries / states that do use the Euro

 

    Quote

 

Bulgaria – Lev

Croatia – Croatian Kuna

Czech – Republic Koruna

Denmark – Kroner

Hungary – Forint

Poland – Zloty

Romania – Leu

Sweden – Krona

UK – Pound

 

Those Eastern bloc countries only joined after the euro was introduced. Like Sweden, they are in the ERM so are supposed to join when certain conditions are met. But Sweden has been kicking the can down the road for a couple of decades now, so who knows what will happen. The Danes and UK opted out of it entirely.

The concept of the euro currency is fundamentally flawed. Sweden is better off kicking that can way down the road.

There are problems with euro but I have to say for me personally having it as my "home currency" has been so much more convenient and practical than the old Finnish markka.

Yeah. Its kinda like saying the concept of the dollar is fundamentally flawed.

As far as I'm concerned the flaws come from difficulties of having vastly different economies under a single coin. It's certainly not perfect. But to say it's fundamentally flawed is overselling it, imo. Sometimes things can be fixed. But I don't consider myself a specialist. It's just that theres a bunch of pros and cons. And coming from a pretty big crisis, its real easy to focus on the flaws. And rightly so, i guess. But fundamentally flawed? You could make an argument that without the euro, things could have been way worse.

  On 12/6/2018 at 6:29 AM, goDel said:

Its kinda like saying the concept of the dollar is fundamentally flawed.

The concept of oil-backed currency IS flawed.

The weaker euro economies are forced into austerity measures whilst the stronger euro economies bale them out.

That to me seems fundamentally flawed.