Brexit :(

Damn, those Rees-Mogg curves...

im glad us americans have someone else to laugh at from time to time. it's depressing being self-reflexively disgusted 24/7

Brexit has become a meme, similar to waiting for Half Life 3 or a new BOC album.

Except its not funny

Don't think calling this test of British democracy/government a meme is fair. Although I understand the implied frustration. But while you are "waiting" for the nonsense to end, some serious stuff is taking place in UK government. THe no-deal thing coming through the lords (i'm not an expert on UK politics!!!) seems like a sign of a functioning government, at least. You know, having debates and working out sensible compromises to achieve mutually agreed goals. So that looks good to me. And it should, because Johnson & Co are doing their best to drive the UK into a hole. The others are supposed to do their best to keep it out. It looks like it might actually be happening this time around. This time it's less about taking different political positions in order to look good for the coming elections. The political agenda has gotten fairly straightforward: don't drive the UK into the black hole of a no deal brexit. Even Corbyn seems to get off his election horse. Seems like a first to me.

Could be wishful thinking from my side, of course.

^
yeah, agree things are looking more hopeful...

  On 9/5/2019 at 11:12 AM, goDel said:

Even Corbyn seems to get off his election horse

Corbyn was still giving speeches saying the opposite of what everyone else in the party is saying, who then had to come out and correct him afterwards. They seem to have got him muzzled now, though their stance on when they want an election still isn't fully nailed down.

 

I was surprised they managed to get the anti no deal bill passed, the only odd thing about it was that the government managed to get a weird amendment tacked on to it (because they sent no tellers to count the Nos for the vote, the amendment passed by default, maybe they thought it would prevent the bill from passing at all, but MPs didn't seem bothered with it). That amendment means if Boris doesn't manage to come up with a deal with the EU, or it's not voted in by parliament, and if then a no-deal is voted against, an article 50 extension is granted, but only to resubmit a slightly amended version of May's withdrawal agreement to the EU (as agreed by the cross party talks after it was last voted down). Not sure if I'm reading it correctly, but it seems to rule out other forms of extension, e.g. to hold a new referendum. Though I suppose if that failed (either the EU or parliament rejected the amended May deal), then there could be a vote on a new bill for another extension.

It does seem like what was increasingly looking like a no deal exit is a lot less likely now, but the bill still needs to be brought into law, and Johnson has to be prevented from calling an election before it can be implemented.

 

lulz

tory solutions for tory problems

Richard Newby, an opposition member in the upper chamber, said the Conservative Party dropped its opposition after realizing it was “looking stupid.”

“There was a realization by those on the other side that this was more than usually stupid, and they were looking stupid, and we needed to find a way forward,” he told BBC Radio.

Scottish court positions prorogued parliament as disingenuous.

Instead of reforming mental health funding and ring fencing it, attacking river & environmental pollution & education etc, we’re mired into this post colonialist asset stripping prolapse.

Britain has had this coming for generations, for global crimes so vast to be borderline uncountable, for general complacency & for the weakest batch of infighting parliamentarians this human has ever witnessed.

The treatment & disregard of Eire, the Good Friday equipment, planning around EU nationals entering the north of Eire over the next few years....happy days

 

 ^ Agreed.

The vast majority of the politicians have failed us, for various reasons.

Left just as bad as the right.

Rabid pro-labour folks on here will be spitting feathers at that, but take a step back and look at the party you support from a neutral point of view.  Absolute shambles, same as the Tory's.

 

 

if this thing had a personified form, it'd be summat like

the whole thing is a benchmark reason for staying away from the news for as much as is practically possible, but, it, draws, you, in, like, grotesque, dolls

 

  On 9/11/2019 at 3:07 PM, Soloman Tump said:

 ^ Agreed.
The vast majority of the politicians have failed us, for various reasons.
Left just as bad as the right.
Rabid pro-labour folks on here will be spitting feathers at that, but take a step back and look at the party you support from a neutral point of view.  Absolute shambles, same as the Tory's.
 
 

Enlightened centrism aside, maybe take a step back yourself and ask one question... Do you think the UK would be in a similar mess if Labour had been in power the last few years?

I'm not 'rabidly pro-Labour' as such but I do despair of the 'everyone's the same' mentality, it's also part of what led to Trump over in the States.

  On 9/13/2019 at 4:59 PM, danshoebridge said:

Enlightened centrism aside, maybe take a step back yourself and ask one question... Do you think the UK would be in a similar mess if Labour had been in power the last few years?

I'm not 'rabidly pro-Labour' as such but I do despair of the 'everyone's the same' mentality, it's also part of what led to Trump over in the States.

I'd suggest starting with getting rid of the first-past-the-post voting and start forming coalition governments. Now the UK politics is just a constant war between two big parties instead of multiple political parties trying to find some sort of compromise or consensus.

  On 9/13/2019 at 4:59 PM, danshoebridge said:

Do you think the UK would be in a similar mess if Labour had been in power the last few years?

quite possibly, Labour's ideas about a brexit agreement are as silly as the Conservative's. They both want to be outside of the single market and customs union (Labour say they want a customs union, not the customs union, but that would still require border checks), and you can't have that without tearing up the GF agreement (unless there's some backup plan like the backstop to provide legal certainty). So it's either no deal, or a very soft brexit nobody wants because it gives none of the benefits of leaving the EU, and doesn't give the UK any say on how the EU operates.

  On 9/13/2019 at 5:40 PM, caze said:

quite possibly, Labour's ideas about a brexit agreement are as silly as the Conservative's. They both want to be outside of the single market and customs union (Labour say they want a customs union, not the customs union, but that would still require border checks), and you can't have that without tearing up the GF agreement (unless there's some backup plan like the backstop to provide legal certainty). So it's either no deal, or a very soft brexit nobody wants because it gives none of the benefits of leaving the EU, and doesn't give the UK any say on how the EU operates.

A soft Brrr-hex-it would surely be better than a no deal exit, if you're looking at how these "policies" might impact on people, social care & the NHS, the economy/supply chains, Eire, the Irish border & the more intransigent strains of politics in the 6-counties, surely.

That aside, Labour have been appalling every step of this path. No strategy, Tories imploded multiple times & they still couldn't get ahead, none of their top brass has had the ruthlessness or (let's face it) foresight to et tu Brute Corbyn. Corbyn = public school Marxist = ultimate hypocrite worth a few million with his own door-step in London = 1%. Starmer seemed a possible option, but a credible policy brain doesn't infer leadership skills.

Labour aren't fit for govt currently & unless Corby goes it'll stay that way. Public don't trust him, nor should they. Bloke is a melt.

 

tories mad lol corbyn is a G

  On 9/13/2019 at 6:24 PM, cwmbrancity said:

A soft Brrr-hex-it would surely be better than a no deal exit, if you're looking at how these "policies" might impact on people, social care & the NHS, the economy/supply chains, Eire, the Irish border & the more intransigent strains of politics in the 6-counties, surely.

oh, sure. but it's still dumb, you retain most of the benefits of being in the EU, without having any democratic say on how it's run, might as well just stay in the EU instead. you don't really gain much with a soft brexit, it's pointless.

Labour are likely to lose loads of seats in the next election. I think it would be a bit of a stretch for the Lib Dems to overtake them into 2nd place, but given recent polling and the last local and european elections, plus winning that Tory by-election, it's not impossible. either way, Labour will do poorly, hopefully so poorly Labour finally see sense and bin Corbyn. Labour membership peaked a couple of years ago and has gone into decline, it looks like even the Momentum types are losing faith in Corbyn at this stage.

The crash in the Labour vote has been predicted ever since Corbyn got in. Maybe it will occur at the next GE but who would make any firm predictions in the current climate.

I've no time for the current Lib Dem leader, she's played everything 100% strategically wrong since taking over IMO. Am I going to vote Lib Dem? Abso-fucking-lutely because they've got the best chance of beating the Tories in my constituency. If it was Labour I'd vote for them, if it was the Monster Raving Looney party, same.

Everyone sitting on their hands during the GE after watching this shit show unfold might be feeling a bit awkward 1 year into a Johnson-led CON-BXP government. Convincing yourself all politicians are the same may start to ring a bit hollow at that point.

brexit party have more chance of splitting the conservative vote than winning seats, they might get a couple, but with FPTP they're not going to win many.

I think Swinson has done well, she just won a poll of Labour voters (ppl who voted for them in 2017) who said they prefer her to Corbyn.

What is the problem with Corbyn? He seems like a good lad, compared to the ghouls on the other side.

  On 9/14/2019 at 1:22 AM, azatoth said:

What is the problem with Corbyn? He seems like a good lad, compared to the ghouls on the other side.

He is rather good at saying what he thinks people want to hear, rather than what he actually believes. I honestly have no idea what his Brexit policy is right now.

And he is great at shooting down Tory policies without enlightening us clearly on his own. I don't trust him.