2020 US Election

First politician barred from holding public office for Jan. 6 involvement:

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2022-09-06/new-mexico-bars-commissioner-from-office-for-insurrection?_amp=true

back in the day, my crowd and those cultural figures i admired were anti-establishment, and skeptical at best of state powers. these days, it looks like two halves of the people are both wrestling so they can get hold of the cudgel to clobber the other side with.

 

  On 9/8/2022 at 3:21 AM, ignatius said:

 

  

  On 9/7/2022 at 5:55 PM, rek said:

back in the day, my crowd and those cultural figures i admired were anti-establishment, and skeptical at best of state powers. these days, it looks like two halves of the people are both wrestling so they can get hold of the cudgel to clobber the other side with.

the state is after all an instrument of class oppression.  to me it's quite clear that if the state was seized and transformed from an instrument of oppression of the working class, into an instrument of oppression of the owning class, that's the first required step to achieving a better society, because the working class makes up the vast majority of people.  When put in these terms it's almost trivially obvious.

when does the state oppress the owning class?  Can anyone even scrounge up some example?
when does the state oppress the working class?  I don't even think I need to provide any examples, it should be quite clear that that's basically its main function.

Edited September 8, 2022 by ilqx hermolia xpli

  On 9/8/2022 at 3:21 AM, ignatius said:

 

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this is what riled them up

 

if anyone needs a soup to nuts recap of donald trump leading up to jan 6th and beyond here ya go.. . it's a well marked road map and put together pretty well w/sources wide and blame to go around etc. 

there's some funny shit in the beginning w/trump whining about anything he's ever lost and calling it rigged and stolen even when it's an emmy award. america. wtf. shit show. 

 

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2022/09/11/police-oakland-county-man-killed-after-fatally-shooting-wife-family-dog-and-injuring-daughter/

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by ignatius

i have to agree with@ignatius on the frontline doc. watched it yesterday and it's an amazing record of how we got here

  On 9/13/2022 at 7:38 PM, Nebraska said:

i have to agree with@ignatius on the frontline doc. watched it yesterday and it's an amazing record of how we got here

the recap of him whining about shit he lost is hilarious. at first i was thinking "oh another one of these about how shitty trump is" but they do summarize all the things really well and make good points about "yes, well, of course this happened. it was going to happen."

and showing pretty clearly the jan 6th event as another dot on a line. especially w/the new details coming out about he told various staff "we're just not going to leave. we're never going to leave" after he lost the election. 

  On 9/13/2022 at 8:57 PM, ignatius said:

and showing pretty clearly the jan 6th event as another dot on a line. especially w/the new details coming out about he told various staff "we're just not going to leave. we're never going to leave" after he lost the election. 

yes. this and the "secret meeting" with his closest allies before throwing the ball to pence's court was also amazing to (hear?) laid out in context. speaking of, loved that clip of ted cruz the day after he cannot endorse trump, with pence, in front of trump's plane, about to fly to DC to work on trump's campaign. 

almost as funny as this moment, if not for the confused journalists who couldn't even think of what to ask after he regretfully admitted what he had done.

lol

  On 9/14/2022 at 12:32 PM, Rubin Farr said:

lol

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No way, that's too on-the-nose.

^^^ according to the warrant, looks like the FEDs have reason to believe he tried to "fix" things for trump. one of the peeps mentioned in that warrant is this lady who shipped some shit to this guy who had something to do with arizona's vote. there's also boebert's ex manager accused of leaking shit to QAnon forums.

so it seems, whilst attempting to steal the election, they were also making Qdrops hinting at their progress to the base to galvanize support (?) whilst also trying to obfuscate their activities- which, seem to be trying to find dirt on killary (original plan for T's presidency which seems to have changed focus into making the presidency more about business)

 

lyin' lion ted getting pressed in the field

not sure if greasy gavin can handle that smoke but i'd watch if this happens

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Out here on the edge of Western Europe, I seem to be the only one of my friends, family, colleagues following the slow legal downfall of Trump and co. I find it absolutely fascinating - the level of the clownshow, the depths of his egregiousness ... its better than any series and the most schadenfreude thing. But nobody seems interested.. everyones jaded and doesn't want to think about the orange idiot and thinks he'll just get away with it... or i just get "why do you care?". Eh hello - its basic human drama on a MASSIVE scale... the lies, the schemes, the grift... a President being so criminal. 

 

 The DOJ is slow and being super meticulous..trying to make it airtight. They're playing a blinder with their tactics on the special master front too. Ive seen every Jan 6th hearing too... just to hear sense been spoken is amazing.  I think he'll go down..... the maga/Qanon folks will fizzle away. surely this kind of stupidity can't survive. Am I naïve AF?

  On 9/20/2022 at 3:13 PM, phudoshin said:

Out here on the edge of Western Europe, I seem to be the only one of my friends, family, colleagues following the slow legal downfall of Trump and co. I find it absolutely fascinating - the level of the clownshow, the depths of his egregiousness ... its better than any series and the most schadenfreude thing. But nobody seems interested.. everyones jaded and doesn't want to think about the orange idiot and thinks he'll just get away with it... or i just get "why do you care?". Eh hello - its basic human drama on a MASSIVE scale... the lies, the schemes, the grift... a President being so criminal. 

 

 The DOJ is slow and being super meticulous..trying to make it airtight. They're playing a blinder with their tactics on the special master front too. Ive seen every Jan 6th hearing too... just to hear sense been spoken is amazing.  I think he'll go down..... the maga/Qanon folks will fizzle away. surely this kind of stupidity can't survive. Am I naïve AF?

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Well, I’m assuming that observing the whole clownshow as any European is probably very much like having the perspective of an informed, educated and progressive-leaning American with a more developed world view than the majority of the American public. As the latter, I was shocked that the country could elect DT in the first place, knowing what and who he was and what he represented. Still, it happened. Ever since, it been a constant, sad reveal not only of the ignorance of the American public but of the shortcomings of the American legal system, etc. I mean, it maybe wasn’t as big of a surprise because we lived through GWB and his whole shitstorm but still, Americans are straight up dum dums bro. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by J3FF3R00

  On 9/20/2022 at 3:13 PM, phudoshin said:

The DOJ is slow and being super meticulous..trying to make it airtight. They're playing a blinder with their tactics on the special master front too. Ive seen every Jan 6th hearing too... just to hear sense been spoken is amazing.  I think he'll go down..... the maga/Qanon folks will fizzle away. surely this kind of stupidity can't survive. Am I naïve AF?

I'm not so sure the DOJ will attempt to prosecute him.  They're supposed to be completely impartial when it comes to politics and a lot of people are afraid of the precedent that it sets if they go after him, even though there is clear evidence that he broke at least a few laws.  If they don't go after him, what precedent does that set also?  That this kind of behavior will be tolerated?  They are kind of screwed either way.

Personally, I think it's worth the risk to prosecute him, but I don't get to make that call.

  On 9/20/2022 at 4:29 PM, randomsummer said:

Personally, I think it's worth the risk to prosecute him, but I don't get to make that call.

i think they absolutely have to prosecute him. any other person would've been in jail already. 

not prosecuting him would basically throw the country out the window and entire generation of americans would have no doubt that the system is complete broken and they'd have no faith in the government, the courts, congress etc.. and they'd essentially stop participating. the country would essentially be handed over to the fascists.

I've lost faith in so much of it tbh. the whole trump show has been a massive eye opener, to say the least. seems at this point the trump hangover is in full swing, like waking up after a massive bender...

like you guys have indicated - will anything happen to him? I honestly don't think so. the American people are ultimately at fault, for letting themselves believe in all his lies, resulting in him getting elected in the first place. don't want to hear dems or whatever other side are at fault as well, because end of the day, there is right and there is wrong. so much of the trump show falls in the "wrong" category, it is simply mind boggling. if any other person in this position acted the way he did, then they would be fired, or possibly killed, depending on what country you're in.

I really try to not even think about it as much as I once did, because it is all out of my control. yeah I can vote dem and show up for local elections, but end of the day - this whole mess is not going to go away easily, nor end well I'm afraid. more people will end up getting massively fucked over due to the rigging that has gone on by the republican party, all in support of this con man. 

if trump gets indicted, charged, and serves some BS house arrest at mar-a-lago, he'll still come back around. team R will continue to rally around him, and it will reinforce all the nut jobs belief he is some sort of savior. the only way this potentially fizzles out is with him completely gone (wink wink), and then the minions below him tear each other apart vying for power. maybe then the R party has a come to jesus moment, and makes some half assed attempt in moving back toward the "right" category.

will be interesting to see what becomes of Adam Kizinger, and any momentum he can build in battling back the R crazy train. if we are going to be stuck with this 2 party system, then it has to balance out at some point...can't keep going on the R vs. D gridlocks and expect any real progress. as much as we can dream up some other system of governance here, it will take a massive sea change to ever implement this. hey, who the hell knows, maybe something like this does come about naturally, out of necessity due to the fact what we have now is clearly not working as intended.

  On 9/20/2022 at 7:20 PM, zero said:

if trump gets indicted, charged, and serves some BS house arrest at mar-a-lago, he'll still come back around. team R will continue to rally around him, and it will reinforce all the nut jobs belief he is some sort of savior.

or THE savior

finally, politics is getting a lil' spicy

 

  On 9/20/2022 at 11:55 PM, Nebraska said:

finally, politics is getting a lil' spicy

 

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straight outta the trump playbook. take a simple question and twist it toward a totally juvenile direction. note the youngun right behind her. total class right there. morality? ethics? those died a long time ago. USA! USA!

  On 9/20/2022 at 5:50 PM, ignatius said:

 

not prosecuting him would basically throw the country out the window and entire generation of americans would have no doubt that the system is complete broken and they'd have no faith in the government, the courts, congress etc.. and they'd essentially stop participating. the country would essentially be handed over to the fascists.

But you know that prosecuting him isn't just going to make everyone on his side fall in line. Trumpers would be calling on the DOJ to prosecute any and all high-ranking Ds for any number of things real and fake from now until forever. Not saying that's a reason to not do it, just something the DOJ has to consider.

I mean if we're talking precedent, the Rs already burned that bridge with the last two SCOTUS nominations, so maybe it's time for the Ds to grow their precedent-breaking balls.

  On 9/21/2022 at 1:36 AM, randomsummer said:

But you know that prosecuting him isn't just going to make everyone on his side fall in line. Trumpers would be calling on the DOJ to prosecute any and all high-ranking Ds for any number of things real and fake from now until forever. Not saying that's a reason to not do it, just something the DOJ has to consider.

I mean if we're talking precedent, the Rs already burned that bridge with the last two SCOTUS nominations, so maybe it's time for the Ds to grow their precedent-breaking balls.

if the republicans do take the house in november all bets are off. i mean.. they're going to do the same shit they did for so long voting to defund obamacare every day or whatever. 

as for what the DoJ will do.. who knows.. i think it will take a while for sure. and the dems do need to grow some balls for fuck sake.. i mean.. they've been getting smacked around politically for so long because they just aren't playing the same game the republicans are playing. 

DoJ does def need to prosecute though.. make an example.. regardless of what it means for all the trump cultists out there.