2020 US Election

He's the creepiest candidate.

  On 1/17/2020 at 8:34 PM, chenGOD said:

If Biden gets the nomination, would you:

1. Vote for him,
2. Write-in a vote,
3. Not vote,
4. Vote for the Republican candidate (possibly Trump)

i pick #3

also: check eric trump's wife trying to get into some political drama vis a vis sleep joe

  On 1/17/2020 at 10:43 PM, Nebraska said:

 

  On 1/17/2020 at 8:34 PM, chenGOD said:

If Biden gets the nomination, would you:

1. Vote for him,
2. Write-in a vote,
3. Not vote,
4. Vote for the Republican candidate (possibly Trump)

i pick #3

 

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Isn’t that effectively handing a vote over to the republicans?

  On 1/17/2020 at 5:02 PM, darreichungsform said:

But Warren's Republican past isn't exactly speaking for her. I wouldn't make anyone president who has been in a far right party now claiming they're socialists.

this is a really childish argument and statement so you're either shitposting or trolling or just being ignorant so wtfever dude

  On 1/17/2020 at 4:52 PM, dr lopez said:

there is a large group of Sanders supporters who consistently say something to the effect of "I'm supporting Bernie because the costs of my health coverage and the byzantine healthcare system in this country are making me seriously consider suicide to save my loved ones from financial burden. I see Sanders as an attempt at changing that." 

there is a large group of Warren supporters who consistently say something to effect of "slay queen-- she's living her TRUTH!! warren is such a Ravenclaw!! I love her plans!! She's so smart, she's a professor at Harvard you know!!"

 

Former group are typically financially and educationally disenfranchised working class rust belt americans.

Latter group are typically upper middle class to rich white people who live in coastal cities, who have always had fairly robust health insurance from their media jobs, and therefore have the luxury of picking a candidate that fulfills a personality checklist and has the best typing for their class interests. Presidential pokemon collecting.

 

I personally don't find Sanders that charismatic or "likeable" or great with all the invented spin of "electability" based on a candidate's personality and perceived wokeness. I do however see him as a candidate that isn't concerned with that horseshit and instead is running a grassroots campaign that is funded by small donations from people all over the country. Far more exciting, convincing, and necessary. And by the way.. it seems to be working pretty well!

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i see a lot more Sanders shitposters online than i see Warren ones, in fact i rarely see Warren supporters on Twitter/elsewhere at all, much less being shitty like you're describing, but i'm sure it's out there. anyway, i'm seeing this narrative being pushed a lot and it's because i've never seen it an hence it makes me wonder if i'm just oblivious (possible) or it's just a disinfo campaign by pseudo-Bernibros/actual-Berniebros (more likely imo). both Warren and Sanders are trying to do essentially the same thing with health care, which will not matter because the chances either of them gets there AND gets health care through Congress? lolololololol right okay. but i hope i'm wrong and one of them does, truly.

Sanders could be replaced with a bullhorn taped to a tape recorder that spewed his same 20 phrases set on random and no one would know a fucking difference.

Warren and Sanders are both running nearly identical 'small donations' campaigns (each had plenty of money from big donors in previous years tho) so the 'grassroots' thing is half true, half marketing. you fell for it, congrats.

Sanders is so far not working well unfortunately. he's doing absolutely nothing to try and get anyone other than the people who are already for him. he's got about 20ish% in the polls (less than that in many places) and even when there was only the unpopular Hilary to run against he couldn't beat her basically anywhere, and obviously nowhere that mattered, what's the fucking difference this year? more hopefuls to dilute the party interests and a message from him that hasn't changed in 30 years, much less the last 4? Trump did the same basically, but the difference there is the Republicans eventually fell in line and turned out because they hated Hilary more than they liked Trump. that strategy might not work for the Dems in 2020 tho, as it obv didn't work in 2016 with an unpopular candidate in the running (Clinton)....so they need someone who can get the base truly fired up to turn out. i can't see Biden firing anyone up, but hey what do i know. Sanders neither, his message doesn't appeal to half the Democratic party (perhaps because he's not a fucking Democrat) so it's very likely he'd fail worse than Clinton (also because Trump will scream the word socialism about him every day until the election). 

  On 1/17/2020 at 11:39 PM, chenGOD said:

Isn’t that effectively handing a vote over to the republicans?

Yang Gang doesn't need to know logic!!!! $1K dollars in your pocket!!!

  On 1/17/2020 at 8:37 PM, dr lopez said:

my issue with him is the senility 

  On 1/17/2020 at 8:51 PM, Gocab said:

He's the creepiest candidate.

  On 1/17/2020 at 11:39 PM, chenGOD said:

Isn’t that effectively handing a vote over to the republicans?

that's what a vote for biden means to me. i just don't see the logic in voting for someone i have no desire to put in power. 

Obvs the Clinton reference doesn’t apply but this back and forth just reminded me of this clip

The thing I don’t get about the Sanders v. Warren thing is that all I’ve ever wanted is for them to run together. Why are we fighting. We all want the same thing. That thing? John Carpenter’s The Thing. 

  On 1/18/2020 at 4:04 AM, Hugh Mughnus said:

Obvs the Clinton reference doesn’t apply but this back and forth just reminded me of this clip

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hopefully we don't end up there. it sucks to not be inspired by leadership. but who knows. if creepy joe gets the nomination and manages to win maybe he'll surround himself w/better people and turn the ship in a better direction. 

it's the administration as a whole we vote for. it's not one guy pulling levers. it's people in a room arguing about what they think is right and hoping the president listens and makes a good decision. 

it's a lot better than the current scenario of people actively trying to mitigate a trump disaster every time they go into the oval office w/a policy decision that needs to be made. 

  On 1/18/2020 at 4:10 AM, ignatius said:

hopefully we don't end up there. it sucks to not be inspired by leadership. but who 

it's the administration as a whole we vote for. it's not one guy pulling levers. it's people in a room arguing about what they think is right and hoping the president listens and makes a good decision. 

The vast, vast majority of people American or otherwise don’t seem to understand this from what I can see (from my perch in Canada). 

  On 1/18/2020 at 4:12 AM, Hugh Mughnus said:

The vast, vast majority of people American or otherwise don’t seem to understand this from what I can see (from my perch in Canada). 

It’s not a vast majority. It’s literally everyone.

That’s even worse if that’s the case

it's crazy.. there's 2 choices.. one of them is hitler.. the other one is NOT HITLER. and people decide to not vote for the NOT HITLER candidate beccause they're cunts. whiney immature cunts who can't do the better thing for the common good. 

really.. do we need 4 more years of trump and company rolling back EPA regs, banking regs.. hell.. he rolled back nutrition requirements for school lunches because Michele Obama was behind that initiative.. 

people need to grow up.  the boat is filling up w/water and there's one guy shitting adn pissing in the boat and another guy who is talking about not shitting nad pissing in the boat and maybe doing something to bail out the boat and plug the hole.. 

nah.. he's not the guy i want to lead so fuck everyone.. this ship is going down in protest. 

suppose there's just one issue... 

guy who says "We should put kids in cages and I will make sure that kids are put in cages"

and another guy who says "We shouldn't put kids in cages. i won' tlet that happen"

fucking ay.. vote for the guy who doesn't want to put kids in cages or be a twat. 

^^^that's why we need to get rid of the two party system and overhaul how parties participate in local and national governments so they better represent the American people. maybe even rethink the presidency and congressional makeup/terms, along with judicial term limits and many many many other issues. 

our government is designed to work slowly, and that's generally good. but it needs to be able to work and also to work quickly when necessary to course correct. we have almost zero means of this now, at least any that actually work. the whole system is antiquated and needs to be reformed.

  On 1/18/2020 at 4:35 AM, auxien said:

^^^that's why we need to get rid of the two party system and overhaul how parties participate in local and national governments so they better represent the American people. maybe even rethink the presidency and congressional makeup/terms, along with judicial term limits and many many many other issues. 

our government is designed to work slowly, and that's generally good. but it needs to be able to work and also to work quickly when necessary to course correct. we have almost zero means of this now, at least any that actually work. the whole system is antiquated and needs to be reformed.

not disagreeing w/you. there's a lot to do and clock is ticking. if it's trump vs biden then who gives us a better chance to deal w/any of those issues? 

i hope it's not biden who gets the nomination but i'll vote for him w/o thinking about it much just to get trump away from the sandbox. he's a fucking catastrophe. 

as for term limits.. it's something to consider in some places. i know california has ben cut by that double edged sword. just when legislators are figuring out how things work and how to work together to make change and get things passed their term limit kicks in and they can't get re-elected so you get another noob in there who has to go through the entire learning curve. 

it's hard to argue when people like mcconnel get in power though.. i mean.. what a fucking turd that guy is. it's all well and good to have term limits when shitty people are in power but sometimes there's a good bunch and they get shit done and make real change. so, term limits cut both ways i guess. 

lifetime appointments are another ball of wax though. wtf. 

People sure do have a lot of big ideas. I fully understand the desire to get a super progressive agenda in there. I want what Canada has. I want what the rest of the free world has. 

That said, I wish Klobuchar had Biden’s poll numbers because she’s normal and legit and isn’t promising Candyland and Sugar Plum Fairies that will die in the senate. She’s also not old AF. Both of those things would likely mean two more easy terms for a Dem. 

"HOT 600 replies!"

  On 1/18/2020 at 4:42 AM, ignatius said:

not disagreeing w/you. there's a lot to do and clock is ticking. if it's trump vs biden then who gives us a better chance to deal w/any of those issues? 

yeah i'm not saying this an issue that's going to happen this election, or any time soon (if at all in my lifetime tbh). but at the end of the day the Dems are 100% as bad as Republicans in doing everything they can to keep the two party system as 'the only way' that things can be. Trump and Bernie's popularity are imo key signs that America craves more diverse options from their representatives, so hopefully things will start to swing that way over the next few cycles. 

  On 1/18/2020 at 4:44 AM, Candiru said:

People sure do have a lot of big ideas. I fully understand the desire to get a super progressive agenda in there. I want what Canada has. I want what the rest of the free world has. 

That said, I wish Klobuchar had Biden’s poll numbers because she’s normal and legit and isn’t promising Candyland and Sugar Plum Fairies that will die in the senate. She’s also not old AF. Both of those things would likely mean two more easy terms for a Dem. 

yeah she's okay, but she's not got that big personality and confident approach necessary for a modern president. can't see her ever gaining traction, but on paper she's alright, maybe a decent VP pick.

  On 1/18/2020 at 3:58 AM, Nebraska said:

that's what a vote for biden means to me. i just don't see the logic in voting for someone i have no desire to put in power. 

So you wouldn't want Biden's healthcare policy?

https://www.vox.com/2019/7/16/20694598/joe-biden-health-care-plan-public-option

How about his policies for unionization?

https://joebiden.com/empowerworkers/

You'd prefer instead to hand that vote over to the Republican candidate (Trump) whose policies on labour empowerment are shocking. I have to provide links to reporting on his actions, because his website doesn't seem to have any policy proposals.

https://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/economy/reports/2019/08/28/174893/president-trumps-anti-worker-agenda/

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/10/donald-trump-labor-unions-workers

(note, jacobin is a very left publication, although their reporting is usually excellent, they do have a strong bias)

https://www.courthousenews.com/trump-asks-court-to-quickly-reinstate-anti-union-orders/

Or Trump's healthcare policies (which would cause healthcare costs to rise)?

https://www.thebalance.com/how-could-trump-change-health-care-in-america-4111422

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/28/obamacare-insurance-numbers-drop-995227

(I had to include this "defense" of Trump's health policies, because even though they're serious, it sure reads like satire. Use google cache or just time it right to stop the page fully loading to the part where it asks for you to turn off your adblocker)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoodman/2019/08/13/we-already-know-what-the-trump-health-plan-is

My favourite quote: "For example, most people in hospital emergency rooms don’t really need to be there. With an iPhone and an app or two, most of them could be examined in the comfort of their own homes."

  On 1/18/2020 at 3:53 AM, ignatius said:

 

 

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Yeah, reading on that, ti seems like Biden doesn't quite get how 230 of the CDA works. But you know what? I bet he'd be better at listening to people try to explain it to him than Trump (whose brain is so huge he understands everything anyways).

Again - is Biden the best the Dems have to offer? fuck no. Is he 1000 times better than Trump? Fuck yes (haven't even touched on climate change or other big issues).

It's really a no-brainer.

Apologies for the long rant - it's not directed at anyone here (well nebraska a little bit lol, but i still got lots of love for you man), but damn y'all need to do something to try and turn the ship around a little bit.

  On 1/18/2020 at 4:44 AM, Candiru said:

super progressive agenda... I want what Canada has.

Canada is not super progressive. We're just not quite as bad as the US in terms of treating corporations like royalty, and we think that a healthy population costs less than one that can't afford to go to the hospital/get treatment. We have a shit ton of problems up here but there's still some civility left in politics. Still a ways to go in trying to achieve equal opportunity (not equal outcomes). And from time to time we have to put up with our own silliness (yes I'm looking at you, former home province....the texas of the north...alberta), but it's nothing like the gong show in the states.

  On 1/18/2020 at 9:24 AM, chenGOD said:

So you wouldn't want Biden's healthcare policy?

https://www.vox.com/2019/7/16/20694598/joe-biden-health-care-plan-public-option

How about his policies for unionization?

https://joebiden.com/empowerworkers/

You'd prefer instead to hand that vote over to the Republican candidate (Trump) whose policies on labour empowerment are shocking. I have to provide links to reporting on his actions, because his website doesn't seem to have any policy proposals.

https://www.americanprogressaction.org/issues/economy/reports/2019/08/28/174893/president-trumps-anti-worker-agenda/

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/10/donald-trump-labor-unions-workers

(note, jacobin is a very left publication, although their reporting is usually excellent, they do have a strong bias)

https://www.courthousenews.com/trump-asks-court-to-quickly-reinstate-anti-union-orders/

Or Trump's healthcare policies (which would cause healthcare costs to rise)?

https://www.thebalance.com/how-could-trump-change-health-care-in-america-4111422

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/28/obamacare-insurance-numbers-drop-995227

(I had to include this "defense" of Trump's health policies, because even though they're serious, it sure reads like satire. Use google cache or just time it right to stop the page fully loading to the part where it asks for you to turn off your adblocker)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoodman/2019/08/13/we-already-know-what-the-trump-health-plan-is

My favourite quote: "For example, most people in hospital emergency rooms don’t really need to be there. With an iPhone and an app or two, most of them could be examined in the comfort of their own homes."

Yeah, reading on that, ti seems like Biden doesn't quite get how 230 of the CDA works. But you know what? I bet he'd be better at listening to people try to explain it to him than Trump (whose brain is so huge he understands everything anyways).

Again - is Biden the best the Dems have to offer? fuck no. Is he 1000 times better than Trump? Fuck yes (haven't even touched on climate change or other big issues).

It's really a no-brainer.

Apologies for the long rant - it's not directed at anyone here (well nebraska a little bit lol, but i still got lots of love for you man), but damn y'all need to do something to try and turn the ship around a little bit.

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Fully agreed, it's absurd that anyone would consider either Trump or any Republican in favor of even the worst Democratic candidate.

  On 1/18/2020 at 4:20 AM, ignatius said:

there's 2 choices.. one of them is hitler.. the other one is NOT HITLER.

  On 1/17/2020 at 11:39 PM, chenGOD said:

  On 1/17/2020 at 10:43 PM, Nebraska said:

 

  On 1/17/2020 at 8:34 PM, chenGOD said:

If Biden gets the nomination, would you:

1. Vote for him,
2. Write-in a vote,
3. Not vote,
4. Vote for the Republican candidate (possibly Trump)

i pick #3

 

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Isn’t that effectively handing a vote over to the republicans?

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I've thought about this a lot, and my original position was to do a write-in, but I've changed my mind and would vote for Biden if he got the nomination, but not be happy about it.

My original position (write-in) was to give the Dems the finger because they didn't nominate who I wanted, and if enough people did that, maybe they'd change, but I realize now that that's pretty stupid.  However, I now think that it's much more important that people get out and vote in the primaries if they wanna effect change in their party.  If their candidate didn't get the nomination, they could still feel better about perhaps voting for the lesser of two evils.

  On 1/18/2020 at 1:03 PM, brian trageskin said:

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i was just going for the extreme scenario to highlight their differences in case somehow people couldn't see the obvious differences between trump/biden.