2020 US Election

  On 4/14/2020 at 10:30 PM, chenGOD said:

I mean there are a lot of factors in that (the half the voting pop thing) - but luckily other people have done that writing for me, which is good cause  ineed to go change my pants again.

If Biden wins the popular vote but loses the election, then I suggest a hell in the cell match to determine the winner.

 

ok but the point i am making is that in 2016 repubs obtained a big chunk of concrete, real power. that was an election where they did not have a stand out candidate from within the party and an outsider basically beat the shit out of them. on the other side the dems had a candidate who was basically the archetype of an establishment dem politician who everyone (including moi) expected to win. yes, she won the popular vote. and yet...there's a lot of navel gazing about why she "really" lost (she wrote a really dumb book all about this) but imo if the dems just keep doing the same shit there's really no reason to expect that they are going to win elections. imo i think a genuinely critical approach to the party is in order, it's not really working out to just take the approach that they know what they're doing and should not be interfered with.

idk this seems pretty obvious to me. i doubt we even have a serious disagreement here. it does annoy me though that people treat any kind of arguments coming from the left of the american democratic mainstream as being nothing but ridiculous hysterics from people who are brainwashed by memes.* 

*i am brainwashed by memes tho, i admit this. they are dank

Would have been even better if puppy was dnc and whats his name, creepy dude, was gop. ;D

  On 4/14/2020 at 10:42 PM, Alcofribas said:

ok but the point i am making is that in 2016 repubs obtained a big chunk of concrete, real power. that was an election where they did not have a stand out candidate from within the party and an outsider basically beat the shit out of them. on the other side the dems had a candidate who was basically the archetype of an establishment dem politician who everyone (including moi) expected to win. yes, she won the popular vote. and yet...there's a lot of navel gazing about why she "really" lost (she wrote a really dumb book all about this) but imo if the dems just keep doing the same shit there's really no reason to expect that they are going to win elections. imo i think a genuinely critical approach to the party is in order, it's not really working out to just take the approach that they know what they're doing and should not be interfered with.

idk this seems pretty obvious to me. i doubt we even have a serious disagreement here. it does annoy me though that people treat any kind of arguments coming from the left of the american democratic mainstream as being nothing but ridiculous hysterics from people who are brainwashed by memes.* 

 

*i am brainwashed by memes tho, i admit this. they are dank

 

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I don't think we have a serious disagreement either, but I also don't think there's the same level of disgust (not quite the right word but I'm juggling this, work, and Candy Crush at the same time) with the political process  in people who identify as Democrat voters. I also think that a lot of people bought into the showman aspect of Trump (like Reagan and Arnie), and thought "Hey I like his movies/tv show, he might be the right guy!"

I also agree the Democratic party needs to undergo some self-reflection, as there is a lot of corporate cock-sucking going on there as well.

It's not just the memes that are dank, check your pants.

Silence of the Lambs?

DNC and GOP are fighting tooth and nail to keep people from 

  On 4/14/2020 at 10:42 PM, Alcofribas said:

genuinely criti[quing] [...]the part[ies]

which is literally 80% of the actual real problem in America. two-party stranglehold allows so so so many of the other ills to continue and propagate and have lead us to where we are. critiquing one party isn’t particularly helpful imo without looking at the entire thing and trying to tear that down, because even if the dems get ‘better’ they’re still doing everything they can to keep things basically 50/50. nothing really can change until both ruling parties are truly wrecked and weakened by viable third parties.

sure, Dems would be better short term but short term ‘well I guess this is better’ goals lead to people like Biden upholding the status quo.

  On 4/14/2020 at 10:59 PM, timbre monke said:

Silence of the Lambs?

naw that’s from Men In Black 2

This shit is borderline corruption lol, the amount of money that goes into securing power in the US is absolutely obscene.

  On 4/14/2020 at 11:07 PM, auxien said:

DNC and GOP are fighting tooth and nail to keep people from 

which is literally 80% of the actual real problem in America. two-party stranglehold allows so so so many of the other ills to continue and propagate and have lead us to where we are. critiquing one party isn’t particularly helpful imo without looking at the entire thing and trying to tear that down, because even if the dems get ‘better’ they’re still doing everything they can to keep things basically 50/50. nothing really can change until both ruling parties are truly wrecked and weakened by viable third parties.

sure, Dems would be better short term but short term ‘well I guess this is better’ goals lead to people like Biden upholding the status quo.

naw that’s from Men In Black 2

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I mean, yes. not sure why you’ve facepalmed me on here for making extremely, softball comments on the subject. I encourage people to take a critical position to the political environment in which they comfortably reside, I don’t see this happen very often itt

  On 4/14/2020 at 11:07 PM, auxien said:

nothing really can change until both ruling parties are truly wrecked and weakened by viable third parties.

do Russians count as a viable 3rd party?

Biden will have a few great brain farts on the debate stage and you got your Next 4 years of Trump. Of all the people out there a 78 year old Biden? 

  On 4/14/2020 at 11:24 PM, Alcofribas said:

I mean, yes. not sure why you’ve facepalmed me on here for making extremely, softball comments on the subject. I encourage people to take a critical position to the political environment in which they comfortably reside, I don’t see this happen very often itt

you got facepalmed because ITT there was about 60 pages of ‘Bernie is DEFINITELY gonna win!!! anyone thinking otherwise is bourgeois trash!’ where i was going ‘yeah idk about all that, maybe but his path long term doesn’t look good y’all...’ so me being a little snarky about it a couple times in the last week or so since he dropped out isn’t out of line. is it dumb? sure. immature? yeah. idc. politics on an IDM forum m8. 

there’s been critical discussion by some reasonable and intelligent people they’re just not the loudest or post most often. (yes this excludes me I know lol)

  On 4/14/2020 at 10:19 PM, auxien said:

 

there’ll be some interesting stuff when it’s Biden vs Trump time, but just right now it seems pointless to me, and I’m being a shit about saying that I guess. 

I'm pretty much tuning it out completely, the Sanders drop during quarantine was kind of a blessing TBH in terms of me processing it. It's way too fucking early and premature to waste energy going full doomer / black pill / whatever. It's telling when even posters on r/chapotraphouse are completely over how pessimistic and overeating some of the leftists are on twitter, the Chapo Trap House hosts included. No one should be shocked that Sanders endorsed Biden. 

I don't think full blown never Biden sentiment, while warranted, should be countered with shaming from Biden apologists either and I don't think Biden vs. Trump is as stark as a difference as many Dems want it to be, but even I'm 99% sure I'll still vote Biden in the end. The bigger thing these anti-Biden folks need to do is channel that energy into local and state elections and other activism.

  On 4/14/2020 at 11:45 PM, auxien said:

you got facepalmed because ITT there was about 60 pages of ‘Bernie is DEFINITELY gonna win!!! anyone thinking otherwise is bourgeois trash!’ where i was going ‘yeah idk about all that, maybe but his path long term doesn’t look good y’all...’ so me being a little snarky about it a couple times in the last week or so since he dropped out isn’t out of line. is it dumb? sure. immature? yeah. idc. politics on an IDM forum m8. 

there’s been critical discussion by some reasonable and intelligent people they’re just not the loudest or post most often. (yes this excludes me I know lol)

i've been back on watmm for like two weeks and i for sure did not read 60 pages of a political thread. facepalm away tho m8

afaik there are like 3 normal positions on here: 1 everything is fine just let the managers do their thing 2. the "full zeff" 3. orange cheeto man is bad

then there's the more reasonable banter, which as you say tends to be quieter. so i'd better shut up so people can think i'm one of those

  On 4/14/2020 at 11:44 PM, marf said:

Biden will have a few great brain farts on the debate stage and you got your Next 4 years of Trump. Of all the people out there a 78 year old Biden? 

If Trump can win with brainfarting his ass through the debates, so can Biden.

  On 4/14/2020 at 11:55 PM, goDel said:

If Trump can win with brainfarting his ass through the debates, so can Biden.

trump excels at debates though. admittedly his best performances were against the republicans but he can be pretty good as an entertainer in that medium

It's pretty common in the US to lament the two party system and put hope in the idea of alternative parties disrupting their shitty corporate grip. Just in case the good peeps of wattm are not familiar with it, our current situation has its roots in a mathematical proof known as Duverger's Law. Apologies in advance if the rest of this post is a giant no-shit, luke. The short version: our voting system (plurality-rule) almost inevitably leads to two entrenched parties. Huge bummer. I'm mainly bringing this up bc I believe that if we want this to change, we need to change the way we vote in the first place. Ranked choice ballots - some of the primary caucuses use this - would, I think, create real change in our elections. For one thing, Biden would probably not have won the democratic primary. That said, primaries probably need to be drastically altered or done away with as well. Rewriting campaign finance laws also seems necessary. I'm not terribly educated about any of this, but I do know that we're stuck with the parties we've got until one of them decides to change the laws in ways that will largely work against their interests. Pretty unlikely. In the meantime, third parties create a conundrum that largely benefits their ideological opponents, and voting for who you *actually* prefer can screw you. ugh

  On 4/14/2020 at 10:19 PM, auxien said:

it is pretty useless to discuss politics here (read the last 80 pages) but I’m mostly getting at Biden is a known quantity, and the critiques of him are many and varied and ubiquitous. only new things worth discussing maybe are the sexual allegations, but those seem a bit odd from the little ive read.... but anyway, no one likes him, basically, he is not now nor has he ever been anyone’s first choice for this job and yet here we are. 
to waste time critiquing Biden is not far from critiquing Trump at this point, except of course that Biden isn’t literally causing the deaths of people (at least not yet except maybe his own by overstraining his old ass trying to run to be president). 
 

there’ll be some interesting stuff when it’s Biden vs Trump time, but just right now it seems pointless to me, and I’m being a shit about saying that I guess. 

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US politics is so weird.

this page (#83 in case I break it) was a real breath of fresh air, thanks.

lol

  On 4/14/2020 at 11:58 PM, Alcofribas said:

trump excels at debates though. admittedly his best performances were against the republicans but he can be pretty good as an entertainer in that medium

Yeah, he excels at debates in the same way WWE professional wrestlers excel at hyping their crowd.

  On 4/15/2020 at 1:11 AM, Brisbot said:

Yeah, he excels at debates in the same way WWE professional wrestlers excel at hyping their crowd.

yes I’d say he injected the medium with a performative element more typically found in entertainment like that, or that he accentuated the existing performative dimension to an uncommon degree. his rallies are also like this. it’s a huge part of his success imo. politics is theater here

  On 4/14/2020 at 11:55 PM, goDel said:

If Trump can win with brainfarting his ass through the debates, so can Biden.

He did pretty well against Paul Ryan in 2012, for what it's worth. 

Obama running as VP maybe? 

Don't be silly