2020 US Election

  On 4/16/2020 at 5:52 AM, Alcofribas said:

“thinks like a waitress” 

incredible 

Ok, bartender actually. My bad. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/04/08/upshot/democratic-electorate-twitter-real-life.html

She represents a very specific district that is not a good example of the way the majority of the US operates. Her talking points and portrayal do very well in certain places, like kryptonite in many others. She spends too much time railing against other democrats at a time when it is extremely unhelpful, which means she probably doesn't see the big picture or what's at stake this year. She only recently began to stop doing stuff like that and recently said yeah I'll endorse Biden, if he does these things. If Biden became more like AOC in his rhetoric, he would actually be worse off, election wise. That's the problem with making a celebrity out of a noob. 

  On 4/16/2020 at 7:24 AM, Candiru said:

She’s not very serious at all. It’s posturing.

huh? idk if you're just seeing the memes and the reactionary stuff about her but there's definitely some substance there. she's certainly inexperienced but i don't think she's tried to shy away from that, and instead uses that outsider/newcomer status in ways that are similar to Katie Porter that you mentioned, turning it for her own good. she's very, very much playing into her perception and is incredibly media-savvy in ways that most politicians would absolutely kill for. she's a first term House member and has more hype and influence (in the media/public eye and responsibly uses that as leverage to help her behind the scenes, it seems) than almost anyone else in the House. 

some of it is definitely just surface-level media play, don't get me wrong, but if that's all you're seeing then you're missing the rest.

  On 4/16/2020 at 7:24 AM, Candiru said:

National elections are not held on Twitter. 

but these days they are swayed very heavily by the media, and AOC is definitely at the top of the game there. her influence going forward could be pretty important in many ways.

Yes, but how much do the ‘rona seeking geniuses in the midwest appreciate that nuance enough to vote against Trump in November? It’s not what impresses us that does it. 

You're so right man!!!!! Let's stop letting normal people in touch with reality into politics because they're inexperienced!!! I NEED MORE OLD WHITE RICH MEN!!!!!!! PLEASE NO BARTENDERS NOOO

  On 4/16/2020 at 1:46 PM, milkface said:

You're so right man!!!!! Let's stop letting normal people in touch with reality into politics because they're inexperienced!!! I NEED MORE OLD WHITE RICH MEN!!!!!!! PLEASE NO BARTENDERS NOOO

Well, right now we have one real enemy, which is the GOP/Trump’s reelection. Why would she still hold out endorsing the only chance of preventing it? Is another four years of Trump somehow more progressive than Biden? Will her social media savvy make it suck less? 

  On 4/16/2020 at 1:55 PM, Candiru said:

Well, right now we have one real enemy, which is the GOP/Trump’s reelection. Why would she still hold out endorsing the only chance of preventing it? Is another four years of Trump somehow more progressive than Biden? Will her social media savvy make it suck less? 

But she would damage the progressive movement and her own credibility on the long run if she blindly endorses Biden without any reluctance. It just shows that she is honest and not an opportunist.

The progressive movement is pretty much fucked if Trump wins. There isn't much damage to worry about, especially since Bernie already endorsed Biden. If Biden gets in, then yeah, progressively pressure the shit out of him. We cant expect Ruth Bader Ginsberg to hold on too much longer, they'll replace her with a henchman and then they'll pay someone else to step down from the Supreme Court and put another henchman in there. 

I'm a diehard Whig btw. Millard Fillmore was a staunch opponent of European influence on Hawaii, which I stand by wholeheartedly. 

  On 4/16/2020 at 1:46 PM, Candiru said:

Yes, but how much do the ‘rona seeking geniuses in the midwest appreciate that nuance enough to vote against Trump in November? It’s not what impresses us that does it. 

wat? no one said ‘AOC is going to go on CNN and praise Biden unconditionally, so he’ll win no doubt!!’ that’s not how this works. there is a lot more nuance and layers going on with stuff like endorsements and stumping and driving out voters in every area. AOC could be a key lynchpin in helping turn out some voters, and getting media riled up about Dem turnout/etc. and nonetheless i was speaking more broadly anyway when you blew her off like she’s just some ‘cute waitress on Twitter’

put your foot in your mouth there m8. just eat it and stumble on.

  On 4/16/2020 at 2:40 PM, auxien said:

wat? no one said ‘AOC is going to go on CNN and praise Biden unconditionally, so he’ll win no doubt!!’ that’s not how this works. there is a lot more nuance and layers going on with stuff like endorsements and stumping and driving out voters in every area. AOC could be a key lynchpin in helping turn out some voters, and getting media riled up about Dem turnout/etc. and nonetheless i was speaking more broadly anyway when you blew her off like she’s just some ‘cute waitress on Twitter’

put your foot in your mouth there m8. just eat it and stumble on.

what should I put my foot In my mouth about? I decline your offer. 

*you really put your foot in your mouth, already. just keep at it tho :) 

  On 4/16/2020 at 7:24 AM, Candiru said:

She doesn’t even come close to scaring the shit out of the establishment. That’s also just a meme. She’s not very serious at all. It’s posturing.

National elections are not held on Twitter. I’d agree with everything you said if we were talking about Katie Porter, but AOC is not helpful the way you think she is, just like Bernie wasn’t.

Why not both? 

Katie porter is legit, I wish she was better known but she's one of the better known reps (late night appearances, viral videos of her in committee sessions) I think she's on a much more gradual rise to prominence. I've posted about her on this thread. I'm a fan of Tammy Duckworth as well. here in Texas I'm voting for MJ Hegar in the senate race against Cornyn. She has a runoff to win but I think she'll clench that easily. Both Hegar and Duckworth have the optics or whatever to swing suburban and rural voters (middle class, veterans, mothers) but neither are super moderate by any means.

I'll fully admit AOC's youth and background has lead to her hype but, even to my own slight surprise, she's exceeded expectations  as a freshman rep who won an upset election

  On 4/16/2020 at 3:03 PM, joshuatxuk said:

Why not both? 

Katie porter is legit, I wish she was better known but she's one of the better known reps (late night appearances, viral videos of her in committee sessions) I think she's on a much more gradual rise to prominence. I've posted about her on this thread. I'm a fan of Tammy Duckworth as well. here in Texas I'm voting for MJ Hegar in the senate race against Cornyn. She has a runoff to win but I think she'll clench that easily. Both Hegar and Duckworth have the optics or whatever to swing suburban and rural voters (middle class, veterans, mothers) but neither are super moderate by any means.

I'll fully admit AOC's youth and background has lead to her hype but, even to my own slight surprise, she's exceeded expectations  as a freshman rep who won an upset election

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It's the causing a rift in the party at the worst possible time thing that worries me about AOC. All of the sudden, progressives have this intense hatred for these always imperfect politicians that have actually done a lot for their agenda. I get not liking a lot of these crusty old Dems. I really do. But with that New York Times article I linked above about Dem voters(April 2019, but a bit prescient) and the way the primary ended up, I think we just have to save that pressure for a more cooperative president while they're in office rather than talk about primarying people in your own party in the middle of a brawl for America. I talk to people in real life that actually think their votes for Bernie were deleted. 

  On 4/16/2020 at 4:26 AM, Candiru said:

AOC is a bit of a cartoon character created and amplified by the media. She’s cute, but she still thinks like a waitress with opinions on Twitter and not like a politician due to lack of experience. She has no idea how much her “gotcha” comments are used against her and her cause. 

Would you say the same thing if she was old and male (while saying and doing the exact same things she does now)?

  On 4/16/2020 at 2:37 PM, Candiru said:

The progressive movement is pretty much fucked if Trump wins.

Disagree here. Contrary will happen, imo. If Trump wins, there will be more polarisation. And more polarisation means more people moving towards the extremes. Left and right.

The AOC interview that appeared in the NYT last week (I believe) was pretty good, imo. Was mostly about where she was politically now that Sanders is out and Biden is the official Dem candidate. From what I can tell, she knows pretty well how to play the political game. Given het age and background, I think that's way better than you'd normally expect. 

I'd like to add though that I can also understand peoples reservations wrt to her. But hey, that's the human condition, right?

If she's got 15 years of political experience under her wings, she's ready to go for the white house, imo. Regardless of her political views, btw.

  On 4/16/2020 at 3:18 PM, darreichungsform said:

Would you say the same thing if she was old and male (while saying and doing the exact same things she does now)?

Yeah, Bernie fucked up his messaging a ton. Like AOC, he's catnip for certain voters who are already converted. We're looking at an election that's won in the margins, so there are certain topics to be avoided. One of them is intersectionality related stuff. 

  On 4/16/2020 at 3:22 PM, Candiru said:

  On 4/16/2020 at 3:18 PM, darreichungsform said:

Would you say the same thing if she was old and male (while saying and doing the exact same things she does now)?

Yeah, Bernie fucked up his messaging a ton. Like AOC, he's catnip for certain voters who are already converted. We're looking at an election that's won in the margins, so there are certain topics to be avoided. One of them is intersectionality related stuff. 

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You would also say Sanders is cute? He is kinda cute to be honest

  On 4/16/2020 at 3:14 PM, Candiru said:

It's the causing a rift in the party at the worst possible time thing that worries me about AOC. 

progressives on the left edge of the Dem party have been pushing for...idk, decades? varying at times, but it's certainly not anything new. the occupy Wall Street/Bernie flavor of it is relatively new, but it's not gaining more traction because of AOC as of what, a year and a half ago coming on the scene? it's been building for a decade now. Bernie considered primarying Obama in 2012, i think he was maybe even talking about a presidential bid in 2008? AOC is a result of all this, not the cause. she's definitely becoming a focal point of it, but she's almost more the 'face' of it than being the main driver of it all.

anyway, Dem party needs a rift in it. needs more than one. Rep party too. tear the two party system down. now.

  On 4/16/2020 at 3:58 PM, darreichungsform said:

You would also say Sanders is cute? He is kinda cute to be honest

Don’t stick your dick in crazy.

  On 4/16/2020 at 1:55 PM, Candiru said:

Well, right now we have one real enemy, which is the GOP/Trump’s reelection. Why would she still hold out endorsing the only chance of preventing it? Is another four years of Trump somehow more progressive than Biden? Will her social media savvy make it suck less? 

  On 4/16/2020 at 6:24 PM, milkface said:

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A meme that nicely illustrates how dumb the edgelords (on all sides) really are.

  On 4/16/2020 at 6:29 PM, chenGOD said:

A meme that nicely illustrates how dumb the edgelords (on all sides) really are.

And edgelord centrist worm heads too I guess. Everybody is dumb except wherever you are.

  On 4/16/2020 at 6:29 PM, chenGOD said:

A meme that nicely illustrates how dumb the edgelords (on all sides) really are.

Dumb is not a word a moderate liberal should be calling people :x

  On 4/16/2020 at 6:42 PM, Brisbot said:

And edgelord centrist worm heads too I guess. Everybody is dumb except wherever you are.

I was thinking he meant the edgelord who made it. Not the edgelords in the graph. The meta edgelord, so to speak.

I love the confusion I've sown here.

You're right, dumb is not the word I should be using. Stupid is much more appropriate.

I actually meant the edgelords who made the picture and the literal edgelords on the graph (that is, the ones on the edges). The ones in the centre are the only ones making any sort of sense - the parties are not complete opposites, but if anyone actually thinks that the Democratic platform is exactly the same as the Republican platform, please identify yourself, so we can know not to take your arguments seriously anymore.

lol @ warren