UK Crimbo Election 2019 - UPDATED WITH POLLOL

  On 12/13/2019 at 3:49 PM, Gocab said:

 

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Glad this deal is MASSIVE, only the best exclamation mark

It’s like the fkn 80’s but fucked in its own bs way, maybe a Modelo, just twelfty one, Welsh Tories, ych y fi, Man band time

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by cwmbrancity
Brexit

  On 12/13/2019 at 6:15 PM, cwmbrancity said:

 

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Original Hawkwind Zoo version is my favorite (also through a weird series of events it was the first Hawkwind track I ever heard - a few months before I got my record store job in the mid 2000s an ex Hawkwind roadie had sold them his entire collection but all the studio albums sold before I was hired, so when I started getting in to them for about a year all I had were rarities collections and live albums and bootlegs, and this was the first track on the first collection I got):

 

 

 

THAT BACKWARD GUITAR

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by TubularCorporation

  On 12/14/2019 at 12:23 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

so can someone explain to me what exactly the plan is for the UK post brexit? please try to be objective as possible, i understand the temptation to say "we're fucked / there isn't one" but I really want to get in the mindset of pro brexit people and try to understand what they think the future of their country is going to look like. what does the UK do that other countries can't? it seems to me that being a part of the EU is a good deal for a country that once had an entire empire but now has very little. i get that there are banks and stuff in london which play a big role in the economy, but is that really enough to sustain the UK?

I work with a load of brexitiers. Apparently Europe pass loads of laws they can't name (apart from working time regs which is really quite good) and we won't be having that any more.

 

...they are also occasionally openly rascist and I think they think there will be less immigration. They don't say much to me about this tho.

lol I'm no leaver, but the UK hardly has "very little". apart from generally having a large and relatively healthy economy (currently world's 5th largest), there are significant amounts of natural resources and renewable energy sources, a world-renowned tech sector (especially in areas of bio-science and pharma), some of the best universities in the world, the whole "soft-power" thing with all the music, literature, arts and film productions, the language, heritage and history of the islands generally, tourism, a smaller-than-it-was-but-still-significant manufacturing sector (high tech manufacturing especially but also engines, cars, boats, high-end clothing, footwear etc.), great fishing waters, foodstuffs and drink and a plethora of UK companies who operate in the services sector globally.

 

 

  On 12/14/2019 at 12:23 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

so can someone explain to me what exactly the plan is for the UK post brexit? please try to be objective as possible, i understand the temptation to say "we're fucked / there isn't one" but I really want to get in the mindset of pro brexit people and try to understand what they think the future of their country is going to look like. what does the UK do that other countries can't? it seems to me that being a part of the EU is a good deal for a country that once had an entire empire but now has very little. i get that there are banks and stuff in london which play a big role in the economy, but is that really enough to sustain the UK?

2015 and onwards a lot of refugees came to Europe mostly because of the Syria war. That caused a lot of fear, and national isolation was promoted by right leaning parties to get votes. The actual reason the UK leaves the EU is the Anglo-Saxon idea of capitalism which is based on deregulation of markets which isn't compatible with the continental European Rhine capitalism that is more leaning towards a social market economy. 

  On 12/14/2019 at 1:38 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

aside from "more white" which they are not allowed to say out loud, so we'll just assume that.

if the UK wants to sign a trade deal with India then 'more white' is not something that the UK will look in 10 years time. they'll just replace European immigrants (from places like Bulgaria and Romania, with those from India). ultimately the UK will need to keep allowing in the same amount of immigrants (and probably more), otherwise the economy will stagnate. they'll have to either allow them to keep coming from the EU, or find them elsewhere.

Wales should vote for independence as well. 
as should London. Essentially Engerland should be about a 200Km band across the North/midlands. Yorkshire down to round about Birmingham. 

  On 12/14/2019 at 6:24 AM, chenGOD said:

Wales should vote for independence as well. 
as should London. 

Like a... European Hong Kong or Taiwan sort of deal?

Edited December 14, 2019 by StephenG

Liverpool would want independence too. 

There is no alternative going round and round in my head

  On 12/14/2019 at 12:23 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

so can someone explain to me what exactly the plan is for the UK post brexit? please try to be objective as possible, i understand the temptation to say "we're fucked / there isn't one" but I really want to get in the mindset of pro brexit people and try to understand what they think the future of their country is going to look like. what does the UK do that other countries can't? it seems to me that being a part of the EU is a good deal for a country that once had an entire empire but now has very little. i get that there are banks and stuff in london which play a big role in the economy, but is that really enough to sustain the UK?

There is no plan but fantasy.

Apart from the economic impact, Ireland will be an issue. And in my fantasy, the odds are increased that the UK will fall apart. Scotland exit. And would it be silly if N-Ireland drops out? That is, if they rather want to be part of the EU, than the UK. Expect this to become a bigger issue if the post-brexit economy will be awful. 

Economically speaking, the UK will be a new kind of Switzerland/Norway/etc. some kind of quasi European country which isn't part of it. After Brexit I'd expect it's influence (within EU) to decline. It will be smaller than it currently is. In the sense that the UK will stop having a say in EU matter and will be in an outside position where they can only negotiate with the EU. And normally speaking, the negotiative power of the EU will be bigger.

Again, it's all fantasy. If UK is fine with being a more powerful version of Norway than things might be OK. Except that Norway has it's oil. UK will be a different story, I'd expect. 

The coming decade will be about the UK being in a survival mode. Which means it will have to rely more heavily on its own natural resources to keep its economy going. Don't expect green deals, or initiatives to become sustainable. In survival mode, there is no will to focus on the green stuff. 

  On 12/14/2019 at 6:24 AM, chenGOD said:

Wales should vote for independence as well. 
as should London. Essentially Engerland should be about a 200Km band across the North/midlands. Yorkshire down to round about Birmingham. 

The problem with this idea is that europe wouldnt have us (Wales). They might have London but I'm not even sure they'd have Scotland. Wales have fuck all to offer really apart from water in the form of rain (which could become more important I guess), sheep, magic mushrooms, a form of cheese on toast we gave a confusing name, Gavin and Stacy. Gavin from "gavin and Stacey" is English too.

 

Ohh and Derick and Lorna. Aphexs parents. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by donquixote

  On 12/14/2019 at 8:53 AM, donquixote said:

The problem with this idea is that europe wouldnt have us (Wales). They might have London but I'm not even sure they'd have Scotland. Wales have fuck all to offer really apart from water in the form of rain (which could become more important I guess), sheep, magic mushrooms, a form of cheese on toast we gave a confusing name, Gavin and Stacy. Gavin from "gavin and Stacey" is English too.

 

Ohh and Derick and Lorna. Aphexs parents. 

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no Joe's Ice cream? Blasphemy! 

  On 12/14/2019 at 10:39 AM, Kennylogg Bubblebath said:

no Joe's Ice cream? Blasphemy! 

Do you know I've never had Joe's. We have loads of ice-cream cos of the old Italian immigrants that we won't be standing for anymore of now borris is getting Brexit done. Lulz. It was Sidoli's ice-cream around my ends growing up. I have a Joe's in Cardiff tho so will load up. 

 

To be honest I love Wales in all its shitness. We got every thing we need with water, sheep and mushrooms. Fuck being exciting, id much rather be up a mountain, in the rain, tripping balls with the sheep. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by donquixote

  On 12/14/2019 at 8:53 AM, donquixote said:

The problem with this idea is that europe wouldnt have us (Wales). They might have London but I'm not even sure they'd have Scotland. Wales have fuck all to offer really apart from water in the form of rain (which could become more important I guess), sheep, magic mushrooms, a form of cheese on toast we gave a confusing name, Gavin and Stacy. Gavin from "gavin and Stacey" is English too.

 

Ohh and Derick and Lorna. Aphexs parents. 

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Oh, c'mon. EU has countries like Bulgaria (no offense to Bulgaria but yeah).. I think EU would be happy to welcome both Scotland and Wales. Scotland might even be able to join the Nordic passport union or Nordic council.

lol

  On 12/14/2019 at 1:38 AM, Mesh Gear Fox said:

i guess i am more specifically asking, what do bojo and leavers think the UK will look like post brexit? aside from "more white" which they are not allowed to say out loud, so we'll just assume that.

A lot of the electorate are confused about this and probably do think and want the UK to be more white after Brexit. However, I don't think the government believes this and as has already been said, if we are to agree new trade deals with the likes of India, China, Brazil etc there will definitely have to be concessions made on Visas and immigration from those countries. If anything, it's likely the UK will end up "more brown" after Brexit, which is quite amusing in a way.

I think the plan for us is to become a more agile, nimble economy with many bilateral trade deals in place around the world. The idea is that traditional large economic trading blocs are not working anymore and we'd be better off extracting ourselves from one and taking advantage of what that can (potentially) bring - more efficiency and agility, faster decision-making, less regulation and red tape etc. That's not to say any of this will actually happen once we leave, but that's the general idea. I think long-term (in the order of 50 years plus) the UK is predicted to benefit from Brexit and be more successful than we would have been had we remained. But that is the long-term picture and likely for the next couple of decades it will have a negative impact.

But oh well, I'm fed up of it now and am accepting this decision as a validation that the electorate do want to get Brexit across the line. It is what it is, and rightly or wrongly we are where we are.

We do need to move forward now and heal as a nation. I am in a way glad that the majority for Conservative was so large and decisive as it has at least provided clarity and a clear direction of travel.

addition - you asked "what makes the UK unique and what can we do that others can't?". well, I don't think we are unique, but are one of the few countries in the EU who have the size and diversity of economic interests who could "go it alone". Germany and France also could almost certainly survive, and eventually flourish if they left the bloc. the UK does have a couple of aces up its sleeve and they're mostly to do with our soft-power, former empire and global commonwealth links, the English language and the currency (which is still held in large amounts by many central banks as one of the world's major reserve currencies).

  On 12/14/2019 at 11:20 AM, zkom said:

Oh, c'mon. EU has countries like Bulgaria (no offense to Bulgaria but yeah).. I think EU would be happy to welcome both Scotland and Wales. Scotland might even be able to join the Nordic passport union or Nordic council.

Not my understanding that it's that simple but you might be right. I thought there were issues with currency tho... (Also Bulgaria is twice the population of Wales unless you count sheep)

Edited December 14, 2019 by donquixote

It's unlikely that De Pfeffel will allow a Scottish independence referendum. He can block it and he will have some phoney explanation for this. Should he allow it at some point, then only in a moment when he is absolutely certain that the sentient is on his side and that it will fail. And political moods can shift easily these days. He is good at this kind of stuff.

In the end the UK will be more or less fine. It's a rich country and and since English is the world language, Britain has a virtually unlimited source of skilled workers that can come from elsewhere to sustain its economy.

I think the main goal of Brexit is to bring about more deregulation of the UK market, which makes it more attractive to the super rich and somewhat more difficult for workers. Racism only served to mobilize the more simple minded part of the electorate.

It looks like Britain feels more connected to the Anglosphere as a cultural-political space than to Continental Europe. And it may not be so wrong with this view.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_model

  On 12/14/2019 at 8:53 AM, donquixote said:

The problem with this idea is that europe wouldnt have us (Wales). They might have London but I'm not even sure they'd have Scotland. Wales have fuck all to offer really apart from water in the form of rain (which could become more important I guess), sheep, magic mushrooms, a form of cheese on toast we gave a confusing name, Gavin and Stacy. Gavin from "gavin and Stacey" is English too.

 

Ohh and Derick and Lorna. Aphexs parents. 

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Does Wales make cheese? This is the only question on the EU application form. 

lol yeah it makes lots of cheese of various types.

if you can find it in your local farm shop, I highly recommend Snowdonia Red Storm - probably the best fucking cheese I've ever eaten:
https://www.snowdoniacheese.co.uk/cheese/red-storm/

  On 12/14/2019 at 12:09 PM, BCM said:

The idea is that traditional large economic trading blocs are not working anymore and we'd be better off extracting ourselves from one and taking advantage of what that can (potentially) bring - more efficiency and agility, faster decision-making, less regulation and red tape etc.

So kind of like entering a geopolitical gig economy.

 

 

 

lol yeah I guess so