Israeli-Palestinian conflict

This land is mine

really sick of media outlets - even supposedly neutral ones like the BBC - referring to these as "clashes". if attacks like these were happening in a western country, you would know about it. every news channel would shit itself at once. instead we get headlines written as though they're actually supposed to brush past you like white noise.

  On 5/12/2021 at 8:42 PM, Dragon said:

really sick of media outlets - even supposedly neutral ones like the BBC - referring to these as "clashes". if attacks like these were happening in a western country, you would know about it. every news channel would shit itself at once. instead we get headlines written as though they're actually supposed to brush past you like white noise.

and just literally lying in favor of israel

nsfw israeli crashing into palestinian protestor then being safely escorted away by armed police rather than arrested

I really can't understand why some people in America actually defend our alliance with Israel.  It just blows my mind every time I hear someone say that they need American military support.

i wonder what eugene thinks about this 

Further clashes have erupted between Israeli gunships and Palestinian pre-schoolers. The international community has called for calm on both sides.

  On 5/12/2021 at 11:02 PM, drillkicker said:

I really can't understand why some people in America actually defend our alliance with Israel.  It just blows my mind every time I hear someone say that they need American military support.

allegedly they have around 300 nukes. they don't need shit from us. alliance is mostly political isn't it?

they're surrounded by millions of people who want to kill them. US threat helps w/that i guess. 

it's all FUBAR though. from day one. not like anyone was thinking rationally after the holocaust.  basically, occupying force showing up at your house you've lived at all your life.. near your 1000 year old olive orchard and they tell you 'you got one hour to get your shit and hit the bricks' - true story. seems like it would create some tension ay? 

hardliners and extremists have had all the normies sandwiched in the middle for a long time. palestininians basically getting the treatment of native americans.  all gonna die of thirst eventually. 

again.. fuckn fubar. 

  On 5/13/2021 at 12:36 AM, ignatius said:

allegedly they have around 300 nukes. they don't need shit from us. alliance is mostly political isn't it?

they're surrounded by millions of people who want to kill them. US threat helps w/that i guess. 

 

Political, yes. Also, the UN is actually a USA’s playground. Still, the only thing that is stopping Israel to kill every single Palestinian is the international community and internet. 

And those millions can’t do shit! Kill them with what? Fists?  

Nothing gets my blood boiling like this conflict. Fuck the Zionists and their US watchdog.

Definitely if I hadn’t spent 3 years backpacking and was totally reliant upon western media, I wouldn’t be pro Palestine. Just the fact that if you dare to criticise Israel you run the risk of being accused of being a Nazi/ anti Semitic/Holocaust sympathiser. Very clever tactic that.

  On 5/13/2021 at 1:11 AM, xox said:

And those millions can’t do shit! Kill them with what? Fists?  

Outdated Russian weaponry, I believe.

solidarity with palestinian resistance to israel's apartheid occupation

  On 5/13/2021 at 12:55 PM, rhmilo said:

Outdated Russian weaponry, I believe.

Some modern Russian weaponry as well but not much and not too modern.

  On 5/13/2021 at 12:53 PM, beerwolf said:

Definitely if I hadn’t spent 3 years backpacking and was totally reliant upon western media, I wouldn’t be pro Palestine. Just the fact that if you dare to criticise Israel you run the risk of being accused of being a Nazi/ anti Semitic/Holocaust sympathiser. Very clever tactic that.

In the US it's not uncommon for leftist Jews who are literally descendents of Holocaust survivors to be called anti-Semitic for criticizing the Israeli government. Likewise there are right-wing Jewish-American pundits who are literally adjacent to fascist and alt right ideology. 

People in NY and Texas and myriad of other states can be fired from state contract jobs for being supportive of BDS. In other words they've literally made it illegal for people to be critical of Israel if they fall under certain government employment.

  On 5/12/2021 at 11:02 PM, drillkicker said:

I really can't understand why some people in America actually defend our alliance with Israel.  It just blows my mind every time I hear someone say that they need American military support.

Pragmatically Israel serves a major canard against Iran. Politically it's an absurdly bipartisan lobby, Democrats and liberal staunchly support it for economic reasons and naïve solidarity and right-wingers and the Republicans are further zealous because of Christian Zionist rhetoric. As much as many Arab and other Muslim majority populations of certain countries criticize and demonize Israel they've maintained backchannel, indirect, and nuanced relations with the Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, various Gulf States, etc. US aid to Israel is another MIC facet, Israel sells a lot of weapons overseas they US won't to places like Azerbaijan for example.

This has also not been the case since 1948 but rather the last 40 years with it snowballing in the last decade or so. Ironically despite the hellish aspects of the 80s under Reagan and Thatcher it was mainstream to be critical of South Africa and Israel whereas now there's a bipartisan lobby to harass, bully, and stifle any substantive criticism of the Israeli government and oppressive fringe politics there in general. Reagan actually called Israel actions in Lebanon in 1982 akin to a "Holocaust." HW Bush was critical of their settlements and tried to cancel their aid for that reason. Since Clinton's well-meaning but failed peace attempts the de facto US policy has become increasingly forgiving and complicit to right-wing Israeli policies. Bush was actually more restrictive of US support for Israel than Obama and was more hands off than anti-Palestinian (9/11 and Iraq being bigger areas to focus on) and he more or less let US religious right lobbying grow. Trump completely unmasked any effort to reach out to Palestine. 

Back to religious and ideological underpinnings, it's one of the most insidious shifts in religious political dynamics. Terms like "Judeo-Christian" were manufactured to whitewash Christian anti-Semitism that dominated Europe until after WW2. Conservative / fundamentalist American Christians masked previous anti-Semitic views from the late 1960s onward with condescending zeal as Jews being allies and key figures in the upcoming "end times." I remember encountering it when I moved back to states and browsed the many non-cable local network channels that had evangelical programming. So much was specifically oriented toward Israel. There's towns I've driven through in rural Texas that probably have not one Jewish resident with massive Israeli flags. The biggest wailing wall replica is at a megachurch in San Antonio.

I also must stress this isn't an Evangelical driven political effort, just one where they factor in a lot. Obama was unable to really do anything once Netanyahu came back in office and by 2009 Isreali lobbying was well-entrenched among establishment Dems. There's a deeply rooted liberal and Democratic oriented pro-Israeli groups and leaders which is why the political support for Israeli is about as strong and zealous in LA and NYC as it is in red states. That's also why despite so many liberal Jewish-Americans in entertainment very few are critical of Israel. For example Natalie Portman has been critical of the government but very, very careful not to appear supportive of BDS.
 

I've wondered this over the years, I think like many Westerners, Americans especially, I grew up with a de facto pro-Israel / pro-Zionist attitude. Hell it's very apparent in my really old posts here. Because it's wrapped up with so many emotionally charged topics and historical events it's hard for many to actually re-evaluate their perspective on the plight of the Palestinians.

Part of me things the fact that more and more people are rejecting the pro-Israel rhetoric is that the mask is off and they've also exhausted their "underdog" narrative, a narrative that hasn't been true for 40+ years now. The uglier side to this is the government of Israel has normalized their policies and fringe attitudes so effectively that it's political suicide for many overseas to criticize them. They literally are trying to bury and shame people into speaking up and speaking out. 

  On 5/13/2021 at 6:46 PM, chenGOD said:

Some modern Russian weaponry as well but not much and not too modern.

  Reveal hidden contents

I assume we're talking about the millions that surround Israel besides the Palestinians? (Not justifying Israel's actions, just clarifying who we're talking about).

 

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There are plenty of more modern small arms floating around via illicit trade to Gaza and likely illegally acquired from Palestinian police and military forces in the West Bank. Combloc stuff is just more prolific, US made weapons and AR clones from other Arab countries are not unheard of. That all said it's still extremely lopsided compared to the TOTL tech Israel has. 

Also DIY stuff is very much a thing. 

https://silahreport.com/tag/west-bank/

https://silahreport.com/tag/gaza-strip/

  On 5/13/2021 at 6:54 PM, joshuatxuk said:

In the US it's not uncommon for leftist Jews who are literally descendents of Holocaust survivors to be called anti-Semitic for criticizing the Israeli government.

This is how they should respond:

  On 5/13/2021 at 7:16 PM, joshuatxuk said:

There are plenty of more modern small arms floating around via illicit trade to Gaza and likely illegally acquired from Palestinian police and military forces in the West Bank. Combloc stuff is just more prolific, US made weapons and AR clones from other Arab countries are not unheard of. That all said it's still extremely lopsided compared to the TOTL tech Israel has. 

Also DIY stuff is very much a thing. 

https://silahreport.com/tag/west-bank/

https://silahreport.com/tag/gaza-strip/

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they're probably not in gaza but i remember reading about all of the weapons that disappeared after the civil war in yugoslavia

I support Israel and Palestine. The neighboring countries could do a lot to help Palestine be independent. Why aren't they already? Something tells me they want it that way.

Israel was created cause people like killing Jews. WW2 was the last straw. The ultimate pogram. So blame the Germans if you hate Israel and blame the other ridiculous tribal countries watching these two go at it for no reason.

  On 5/13/2021 at 7:55 PM, marf said:

I support Israel and Palestine. The neighboring countries could do a lot to help Palestine be independent. Why aren't they already? Something tells me they want it that way.

Israel was created cause people like killing Jews. WW2 was the last straw. The ultimate pogram. So blame the Germans if you hate Israel and blame the other ridiculous tribal countries watching these two go at it for no reason.

yes, israel's behavior right now is german's fault.  the palestinians deserve what's happening to them because the jews have just been so oppressed in the past that it's their turn, they get to be the oppressor now to make up for it.

Here’s a picture my cousins took of the rockets. They live in Ashkalon.