Russia is now bombing Ukraine

  On 10/1/2022 at 5:28 AM, dingformung said:

Do you suspect Russia is trying to scam their own insurance companies?

“Yo dawg, I heard you like scams”

  On 10/1/2022 at 5:28 AM, dingformung said:

Do you suspect Russia is trying to scam their own insurance companies?

Do you think Putin is a rational individual?

Totally convinced it was a joint Nato thing with the US as a key figure. Poland and Norway too (and let's not forget it happened in Danish/Swedish waters). They all have gas to sell and stand to benefit from this the most. Some online ship tracker sleuths found out that US Navy in the area turned off their AIS tracking around that time, which is really suspect. It was done far away from Russian waters and, for a job involving 1000's of kilos of explosives, was done with great care not to disturb the seafloor environment. There's the SwePol power line nearby and old caches of WW2-era chemical weapons all over the place. To pull this off in shallow waters, undetected, is almost unfathomable. Everyone in a position of power, or involved with signals intelligence, probably knows exactly what went down but we'll never get a confirmation. I don't think anyone should be too thrilled about explosions in the Baltic sea right now. 

Spitballing here:
It might have been done by an autonomous covert military department with elevated levels of command, relying on predictions from supercomputers using machine learning algorithms. The orders were then executed to the letter by reliant actors. Nobody knows exactly the how and why of the operation, but the super-computer does. It's only goal is to win the endgame satisfyingly accordingly to the operators, which might be allied to nato/usa/eu/... (This might as well have been an episode in the Ghost in the Shell manga)

(but it might also have been Putin being Putin)

  On 10/1/2022 at 9:28 AM, chenGOD said:

Do you think Putin is a rational individual?

I think he acts within a different kind of rationality that isn’t in the best interest of anyone except himself but usually does do stuff that probably makes sense if you have his goals and values. He is approaching the end of his political life and can afford to risk things. He will get away with it

The best argument against Russia being responsible is that it's really bad for their brand. Nobody will buy gas from pipelines that have a tendency to blow up. Could be a false flag but for what? Trying to bring the west down to Putin's level and drum up sympathy? All of these figureheads saying cryptic stuff kinda irks me, like the polish former foreign minister who thanked USA on twitter moments after the leak (before he deleted the post and blamed russian hackers). Latvia's prime minister calls this a new form of hybrid warfare but won't even mention a suspect. Norway and Denmark are spooked into stepping up security on their fuel installations.

I may have been hasty in calling out Nato per se as they don't ever operate clandestinely like this (as far as we know). But the US and a handful of other players absolutely don't want Germany being dependent on Russia for gas. What a mess.

  On 10/1/2022 at 1:13 PM, chim said:

The best argument against Russia being responsible is that it's really bad for their brand.

Russia: (filling mass graves with executed civilians and launching artillery at nuclear power plants) "We better not touch that pipe in case it hurts the brand"

  On 10/1/2022 at 1:36 PM, Enthusiast said:

Russia: (filling mass graves with executed civilians and launching artillery at nuclear power plants) "We better not touch that pipe in case it hurts the brand"

Yes, their goverment are evil warmongers but they need money to be evil warmongers. The gas bill has sustained them through the sanctions. 

  On 10/1/2022 at 10:34 AM, chim said:

Totally convinced it was a joint Nato thing with the US as a key figure.

this is fan fiction

  On 10/1/2022 at 10:34 AM, chim said:

Some online ship tracker sleuths found out that US Navy in the area turned off their AIS tracking around that time, which is really suspect.

this is very week support and the best support you offer

  On 10/1/2022 at 10:34 AM, chim said:

To pull this off in shallow waters, undetected, is almost unfathomable.

it was detected. explosions were measured and ships were seen in the area (russian ships)

  On 10/1/2022 at 1:41 PM, chim said:

Yes, their goverment are evil warmongers but they need money to be evil warmongers. The gas bill has sustained them through the sanctions. 

Russia shut off the gas in August. Russia did. Not Nato/Germany/USA etc.

  On 10/1/2022 at 1:44 PM, trying to be less rude said:

this is very week support and the best support you offer

 

it was detected. explosions were measured and ships were seen in the area (russian ships)

All we have is circumstantial stuff, there are hundreds of pages of discussion on this in local forums and a lot more details floating about, I just shared what little that stood out to me the most and actually made a bit of sense. Everybody mucks about in that general area, including russian ships. 

The USS Kearsarge was in the vicinity at the days around to the explosions, that's a huge vessel and the one that turned off its AIS tracking. The reason the AIS is shut off is not to avoid detection by other nations but by snooping civilians and journalists. The powers that be are probably fully aware of who did this. Also, the timing coincides with the completion of Baltic Pipe, run by Denmark, Norway and Poland... Both Danish and Polish representatives openly denounced Nordstream and Russian gas dependency, and painted it as a blow to Putin. Literally opened on the same day as the explosions. When LARPing as geopolitical experts we can't afford much room for coincidence.

Gas and oil makes big nations do wacky stuff. It's also important to note that the US' liquified natural gas is less reliable than methane for industrial applications, and way more carbon-intensive. Nordstream has been a real threat to the LNG industry. And let's not forget the US has done this before: https://www.wired.com/2004/03/soviets-burned-by-cia-hackers/

But no, there's no smoking gun and it all might be fan fiction, sure.

  On 10/1/2022 at 10:34 AM, chim said:

Some online ship tracker sleuths found out that US Navy in the area turned off their AIS tracking around that time, which is really suspect.

src?

  On 10/1/2022 at 3:35 PM, jaderpansen said:

src?

Any ship traffic tracker should do it, like http://www.shiptraffic.net/current-position/USS-Kearsarge-(LHD-3)/1/368702000

i definitely dont have any hard beliefs on this subject but one theory i read that seemed interesting was that putin sabotaged the pipelines because it would cut off leverage of his enemies in the kremlin. a big justification for a coup would be to get the pipeline up and cash flows going again and now that is gone. 

also seems plausible that the US did it but i really really hop not because it seems like the consequences locally and abroad would be huge if it got pinned on us

Honestly the thinking that the US would possibly do this is more like a James Bond plot then anything actual National Security Professionals would ever consider. No one wants World War III even the boogeyman the US

edit: actually Putin seems to like the idea of being in a war

buncha normies in here. looking past the obvious: NASA Pictures Of Lake Near Mongolia Lead To Underwater ET Base | UFOHolic

  Quote

Besides these records from the former Soviet Union, recent photos released by NASA may confirm that Lake Baikal is indeed a transition place for UFOs and USOs (unidentified submerged object) alike.

In 2009, astronauts aboard the International Space Station photographed two enigmatic round shapes from the icy surface of the lake which seem to have been formed as a result of a circular body rising from below.

  On 10/1/2022 at 4:22 AM, dingformung said:

Ukraine has no interest in attacking pipelines of countries that potentially will send them a lot of weapons to help them defend against Russia.

Of course they do, they have an interest in removing any possible leverage Russia has over Europe. 

Of course they don't have an interest in starting a conflict with their arms dealers hence why this would be done covertly.

"look, a circle"

"mm. ufos"

Everyone knows circles are not from earth, nother nature makes hexagons. Circles are shapes brought to our world by hyperdimensional beings.

  On 10/1/2022 at 4:19 PM, trying to be less rude said:

Honestly the thinking that the US would possibly do this is more like a James Bond plot then anything actual National Security Professionals would ever consider. No one wants World War III even the boogeyman the US

 

edit: actually Putin seems to like the idea of being in a war

The US has a history of profiteering from war as doctrine.

As long as it doesn't reach their land they're a-ok with war, selling weapons and financing reconstruction.

  On 10/1/2022 at 4:51 PM, GORDO said:

Everyone knows circles are not from earth, nother nature makes hexagons. Circles are shapes brought to our world by hyperdimensional beings.

The US has a history of profiteering from war as doctrine.

As long as it doesn't reach their land they're a-ok with war, selling weapons and financing reconstruction.

a lot of things can be found in history. let's put that in perspective. right now world leaders are anxiously working to prevent world war 3, the aggression for which has come from russia. the narrative of us involvement in the oil line bomb is divorced from reality and only lands for the uninformed.

the nature of war is uncontrollability and no one knows that better than national security professionals. in the modern age and involving the nations being discussed, a major conflict literally risks civilization as we know it. this internet narrative makes no sense. oh, hey coincidence, it scapegoats the US just like the russian disinfo currently surging through the internet

by the way i think exitonly's theory is the most interesting and probably right

  On 10/1/2022 at 4:15 PM, exitonly said:

i definitely dont have any hard beliefs on this subject but one theory i read that seemed interesting was that putin sabotaged the pipelines because it would cut off leverage of his enemies in the kremlin. a big justification for a coup would be to get the pipeline up and cash flows going again and now that is gone. 

also seems plausible that the US did it but i really really hop not because it seems like the consequences locally and abroad would be huge if it got pinned on us

  On 10/1/2022 at 4:33 PM, auxien said:

buncha normies in here. looking past the obvious: NASA Pictures Of Lake Near Mongolia Lead To Underwater ET Base | UFOHolic

Expand  

tangent... 

my friends are at a wedding right now and right near it is this place. 

https://www.eceti.org

I am not adamant that American navy divers blew the pipelines, but if it wasn't Russia then there must've been a tacit understanding if not a cooperation between a few players. The US military also knows the waters and archipelagos of Scandinavia extremely well. I don't think there are any government heads in the EU that could authorize something like this behind closed doors, which kinda leaves Biden and Putin. Moving the doomsday clock even further is not the smartest idea, but these are strange times and the US and most of the west absolutely did not like Nordstream. But yeah, it's somewhat out of character if you put aside the USA=Boogeyman rhetoric and some of the worse examples of CIA hijinks from the past century. 

U.S Secetary of State Anthony Blinken calls this a tremendous opportunity. 

  Quote

"And ultimately this is also a tremendous opportunity.  It’s a tremendous opportunity to once and for all remove the dependence on Russian energy and thus to take away from Vladimir Putin the weaponization of energy as a means of advancing his imperial designs."

https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-and-canadian-foreign-minister-melanie-joly-at-a-joint-press-availability/

Putin's latest speech was a lot of oxymoronic hyperbole and good ol' USSR romanticism. Now his former PM also claims he's painted himself into a corner and might bail out in a few months. 

Russia messing with Italy's gas supply now