Russia is now bombing Ukraine

i work with several people from ukraine/russia/moldova.. some who've been in america for several years and some of are more recent.. one woman i've become friends with has been here 6 months. there is a language barrier w/all of them and i do my best to understand but there's various opinions about what's happening.. or judging by the sometimes intense discussions that happen i can only surmise that opinions vary and the history is complicated and there's very different life experiences amongst this group.  most of them speak more than one language.. some 4 or 5.  The ukrainian woman who's been here 6 months has lived in several places.. spain, israel, romania, netherlands and has a lot to say about all of them. she's not sold on america at all..  I'm trying to figure out her thoughts on ukraine/russia/nato etc and it's difficult because she's learning english and has a ways to go to be fluent and i speak no russian/ukrainian.. .but we had a brief chat about recent history with zelenksy and previous presidents and varying degrees of corruption and relationship status w/russia and europe. she had a bit of a hard time talking about it because it was painful.. but she said for a while life was really good even under the corrupt presidents of the past but i expect that experience wasn't shared by everyone.. but she did say that ukraine was 'becoming ukraine' and it felt really good to be ukrainian and now it feels like everyone is trying to take a part of ukraine. 

i look forward to further discussions w/her because her thoughts/narrative seem way more nuanced/complex than the narratives we get fed by media over here... but i suspect we'll disagree on plenty of things but i'm trying to stay open minded about it all and listen. 

  On 3/29/2023 at 5:50 PM, ignatius said:

i'm trying to stay open minded about it all and listen. 

that's it right there. some of my closest IRL friends are Russian, and it's a slippery slope discussing the Ukraine situation. one of them is still very pro Russia, despite living in the US for decades. most of his immediate family are still back in the motherland, all brainwashed under the regime. I try and put myself in his shoes when talking about this, and remember that any Russian person anywhere now has to discuss this confusing clusterfuck of a quagmire situation their home country has decided to get into. IMO Russia and Russian people by default are not bad, their mafioso crazy person led government are bad, and have knowingly warped the minds of millions of their citizens. when my friend says stupid shit like Ukraine will become a vacant country, or other such propaganda fueled delusions, I don't argue, and normally try and highlight basic non-violent universal principals such as killing civilians is wrong, pointless destruction of apartments/houses is wrong, war in general is wrong, etc.

  On 3/29/2023 at 11:51 PM, zero said:

all brainwashed under the regime

And by a few hundred years of Russian culture, I'd imagine. Things like "Ukrainian isn't a language, it's a speech defect" and "civilized people in Ukraine are Russian anyway" have been staples of Russian culture for centuries (in part because the origins of the "nation" we now call Russia do indeed lie in Kyiv).
 

When the war started, I read Bulgakov's (himself born in Kyiv) "The White Guard" and everything the culturally Russian protogonists say about Ukrainians (ie the peasant population of what was otherwise known as "Little Russia") in that book was coming verbatim out of the mouths of Putin and his cronies as well.

So yeah, the brainwashing has been going on for centuries.

  On 3/30/2023 at 10:57 AM, Limo said:

So yeah, the brainwashing has been going on for centuries.

in america too. there are a lot of myths people believe about america. 

  On 3/30/2023 at 4:56 PM, ignatius said:

there are a lot of myths people believe. 

Putin lover attempted to buy drones for troops. Gets a bunch of sex toys instead thanks to Ukrainian hackers. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21950102/russian-war-fanatic-receives-batch-sex-toys-ukrainian-hack/?utm_source=youtube&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sunyoutubestories

  Quote

Zelenskyy’s press officer, Serhiy Nikiforov, said in a comment to local media that Kyiv had no information about “the so-called night attacks on the Kremlin,” repeating its stated focus on its own territory. “Ukraine directs all available forces and means to liberate its own territories, not to attack foreign ones.”

Following the news, Andriy Yermak, Zelenskyy’s chief of staff, posted three fire emojis on his Telegram channel without any commentary, but deleted the post shortly after.

Russia claims Ukraine tried to assassinate Putin. US is saying they don’t think Ukraine did that but who knows. it would be a possible quick fix to the situation, and who would miss the guy?

  On 5/3/2023 at 6:58 PM, auxien said:

it would be a possible quick fix to the situation, and who would miss the guy?

One would hope. He’s not the only one in the Russian military-oligarchy complex that is invested in this war, however.

What would happen if his cronies sacrifice him, being an obvious figurehead and scapegoat? Does Russia get to evacuate Ukraine without paying for the damage? And do we then all start to buy Russian gas again, making it worth it for the military and their oligarch friends to do this?

My money is still on a permanent frozen conflict like Transdniestria and Abchazia but luckily I’m terrible at betting.

  On 5/3/2023 at 6:58 PM, auxien said:

Russia claims Ukraine tried to assassinate Putin. US is saying they don’t think Ukraine did that but who knows. it would be a possible quick fix to the situation, and who would miss the guy?

i think there's no way zelensky would order that.

the concerning thing is that you know putin wants zelensky out of the picture, and, if putin were planning to try to take zelensky out, he would first deploy propaganda exactly like this

  On 5/3/2023 at 9:57 PM, Limo said:

What would happen if his cronies sacrifice him, being an obvious figurehead and scapegoat? Does Russia get to evacuate Ukraine without paying for the damage? And do we then all start to buy Russian gas again, making it worth it for the military and their oligarch friends to do this?

good questions...i guarantee at least a couple of those oligarchs have done that math. if Putin's got any brains that he wants to keep inside his skull, he's doing it too. word is he doesn't trust pretty much anyone at this point so who knows how he can even go about on a daily basis...which is sure justification for the massive paranoia also reported from him.

  On 5/4/2023 at 12:33 AM, trying to be less rude said:

i think there's no way zelensky would order that.

the concerning thing is that you know putin wants zelensky out of the picture, and, if putin were planning to take zelensky out, he would first deploy propaganda exactly like this

their official word from them is it wasn't a Ukrainian attack, but who's to say. even if it was, Ukrainian friends (US/EU/etc) would probably try to keep it quiet.

this guy's generally got a reasoned take on things. i'm not terribly into international politics so i can't say how 'correct' it is, but this seems to make some sense. he's stating the Russian false flag attack is pretty likely (especially since it seems doubtful Putin himself was anywhere near)

  On 5/4/2023 at 12:49 AM, auxien said:

he's stating the Russian false flag attack is pretty likely (especially since it seems doubtful Putin himself was anywhere near)

definitely not unlikely. the first 8 years of this war were largely hybrid info/kinetic operations. remember the little green men who invaded crimea in 2014? no insignia, russia claims it's not them, though it was. the crimean referendum was also an interesting info maneuver, in that that's not how referendums work at all. remember when russian forces and mercenaries secretly stood up and propped up the purported rebel movement in donbas, in the years that followed? remember when western intel learned of a planned russian false flag as a pretext for invading ukraine, in early february 2022? that prebunking seemed to have maybe thwarted the planned false flag. but yeah this whole war has been info ops. right up to the point of total invasion, few, not even zelensky, really knew if russia would actually invade or if lining up on the border was just more of their mind game bullshit. 

but another possibility is that there was a drone attack, though the attribution of it to ukraine is dubious. there already seems to be an uptick in political violence in russia, in recent years. of course putin is probably not trending up in friends, as he is sending tens of thousands to pointless deaths, and the economy is eating it, and you're not allowed to call the war a war or you go to prison. imagine you're putin and someone drone attacks you. of course you're going to blame ukraine. meanwhile, anyone can drone attack putin. 

What a whiny little glass-house bitch. Literally offed scores of Russians the c*nt; I delight in his paranoia.

If I may Ukraine - and with all due respect - I'd like to claim full responsibility for this assassination attempt.  I also exhumed Mama Putin and fucked her corpse to Day-o by Harry Belafonte.  Come at me Brostoyevsky

  On 5/4/2023 at 1:21 AM, trying to be less rude said:

this whole war has been info ops

Exactly.

That said, all the death and destruction does make it all quite a bit more complicated. I can’t come up with a single method for cleaning up this mess that is the least bit plausible.

Look at the footage from the "attack". Laughable.

https://twitter.com/PjotrSauer/status/1653734772802306049

  On 5/4/2023 at 11:01 AM, scumtron said:

Look at the footage from the "attack". Laughable.

 

https://twitter.com/PjotrSauer/status/1653734772802306049

  On 5/4/2023 at 11:01 AM, scumtron said:

Look at the footage from the "attack". Laughable.

 

https://twitter.com/PjotrSauer/status/1653734772802306049

Yeah it’s hilarious. Hardly an attack or assassination attempt. Would probably kill a few pigeons and that’s about it.

war is not just fighting. it's hearts and minds, too. if the military and police no longer answer to him then putin is no longer in control

maybe zi has a horse farm for him in china

  On 5/4/2023 at 2:06 PM, trying to be less rude said:

war is not just fighting. it's hearts and minds, too. if the military and police no longer answer to him then putin is no longer in control

 

maybe zi has a horse farm for him in china

Xi would probably just disappear him if he stops being useful.

Russian police and military likely the same. To them he’s probably still useful, though.

Like I said, I really don’t see a way out of this for anyone. Maybe as a conflict so frozen the west can help the remainder of Ukraine rebuild and rearm to such a degree that it will be impossible for Russia to unfreeze it?

  On 5/4/2023 at 4:28 PM, Limo said:

Like I said, I really don’t see a way out of this for anyone. Maybe as a conflict so frozen the west can help the remainder of Ukraine rebuild and rearm to such a degree that it will be impossible for Russia to unfreeze it?

russian forces in ukraine are going to get the shit kicked out of them

This is such a typical Russian botch-job of a “false flag” operation. 
Set the actual flag on fire and have hardly any other trace of damage / make sure to do it at 2:30am so nobody is at risk (and I highly doubt that Putin sleeps in the dome of the kremlin). 
If Ukraine or any other state with actual military intelligence wanted to attack Putin they would at least try to do a little more damage and during business hours. 

  On 5/4/2023 at 8:37 PM, J3FF3R00 said:

Set the actual flag on fire and have hardly any other trace of damage

they don't have money for the roof repairs, so the order was to do it gently

  On 5/6/2023 at 12:14 PM, Milwaukeeeee said:

 

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Ah yes. Threatening to leave a city you claim to have conquered already because you’re not receiving enough ammo to conquer that city that you claim to have conquered already.

  On 5/6/2023 at 1:01 PM, Limo said:

Ah yes. Threatening to leave a city you claim to have conquered already because you’re not receiving enough ammo to conquer that city that you claim to have conquered already.

Certainly lol. This whole scenario, pure human scaloppini, too many tards in this game, going there forced by their gov. or volunteering to liquidate their futile lifes.