Russia is now bombing Ukraine

  On 11/28/2023 at 6:52 PM, Enthusiast said:

 

The alternative is media literacy and using critical thinking.  If you can't tell the difference between fact-based reporting and agenda driven horseshit, or if you simply opt to suspend your critical faculties when presented with something that reinforces your already held worldview then it hardly matters where you get your news from. 

bad faith response. In my whole post, which you quoted the very end of, I am asking what is the alternative to my claim that Western diplomats are aiming to bring Ukraine to the negotiating table and that the war could have been avoided at the outset with a diplomatic (and not military) solution. You ignored the rest of my post where I quoted you and instead chose to respond to remarks I made about fact-based reporting and other matters in my exchanges with the user zero. You also, in that post, asked me if I trusted David Arakhamia, who was one of Zelensky's top advisors and has stated that negotiations were on the table at the beginning of the war which Ukraine and Russia were open to. Dude was literally one of Zelensky's top advisors saying that UK and US put pressure on Ukraine to choose war instead of a peace deal.

I feel the most sorry for the civilians, this planet is basically one big chessboard now, and alot of us are tired of it. Time to stop fighting on this pale blue dot and think more about identifying and then inhabiting exoplanets, which Russians are supposed to be pioneers of, Russia, come on! What are you doing?...

  On 11/29/2023 at 12:44 PM, LooseLink said:

 Time to stop fighting on this pale blue dot and think more about identifying and then inhabiting exoplanets, which Russians are supposed to be pioneers of, Russia, come on! What are you doing?...

2 months later…….

  On 11/29/2023 at 12:06 PM, decibal cooper said:

 if I trusted David Arakhamia, who was one of Zelensky's top advisors and has stated that negotiations were on the table at the beginning of the war which Ukraine and Russia were open to. Dude was literally one of Zelensky's top advisors saying that UK and US put pressure on Ukraine to choose war instead of a peace deal.

Two different articles on the peace talks in Istanbul in March 2022:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/top-ukrainian-politician-david-arakhamia-gives-seventh-confirmation-of-russia-ukraine-peace-deal-agreed-in-march-2022/ar-AA1ky3eT

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/did-ukraine-miss-an-early-chance-to-negotiate-peace-with-russia/ar-AA1mug8o

  On 1/9/2024 at 2:29 AM, chenGOD said:

Two different articles on the peace talks in Istanbul in March 2022:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/top-ukrainian-politician-david-arakhamia-gives-seventh-confirmation-of-russia-ukraine-peace-deal-agreed-in-march-2022/ar-AA1ky3eT

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/did-ukraine-miss-an-early-chance-to-negotiate-peace-with-russia/ar-AA1mug8o

weapons contractors on each shoulder whispering "do it.. just do it" in US/UK administration's ears. 

  On 1/9/2024 at 2:48 AM, ignatius said:

weapons contractors on each shoulder whispering "do it.. just do it" in US/UK administration's ears. 

I mean sure but at the end of the day Ukraine is a sovereign state and I believe that the discovery of the crimes in Bucha did have an impact on the negotiations. There is also the question of whether or not it would have been a ploy by Putin to buy time to regroup and resupply the Russian military, since I trust Putin to abide by the terms of a peace treaty about as much as I trust a 2-month old not to shit itself.

  On 1/9/2024 at 3:47 AM, chenGOD said:

I mean sure but at the end of the day Ukraine is a sovereign state and I believe that the discovery of the crimes in Bucha did have an impact on the negotiations. There is also the question of whether or not it would have been a ploy by Putin to buy time to regroup and resupply the Russian military, since I trust Putin to abide by the terms of a peace treaty about as much as I trust a 2-month old not to shit itself.

yeah.. good points. putin can't be trusted. 

  On 1/9/2024 at 3:47 AM, chenGOD said:

I mean sure but at the end of the day Ukraine is a sovereign state and I believe that the discovery of the crimes in Bucha did have an impact on the negotiations. There is also the question of whether or not it would have been a ploy by Putin to buy time to regroup and resupply the Russian military, since I trust Putin to abide by the terms of a peace treaty about as much as I trust a 2-month old not to shit itself.

I agree that Putin can't be trusted, although I think that the same is true about (in the context of negotiations) Biden and Johnson admins. I also have read that Angela Merkel said in December 2022 that the Minsk agreement for peace in the Donbas region of 2014 was a diplomatic trick meant to help Ukraine bolster its military capabilities for a future confrontation with Russia, backed by western powers. Lots of room for distrust on both sides it seems.

Also very curious how this Russia-Ukraine conflict is going to play out now. I feel like every possible outcome short of a diplomatic settlement is going to make things worse for Ukraine. Thought that the Western powers by this point would start rolling out and spinning things to make the current situation look like a win somehow for Ukraine so that diplomacy could begin, and there definitely has been some of that. But it seems like the Biden admin is hell bent on prolonging the conflict for as long as possible. Also, Putin, now that Russia has the upper hand in the conflict, is most likely happy at this point for the chance to annex as much territory where there are majority Russian-speaking people there as possible. I still really hope that America and western allies are behind the scenes pushing for some diplomatic solution, but it seems doubtful. There is no open discussion of it in Biden's speeches or in the press conferences from state department, defense dept, and national security council.

They all say that Ukraine needs to win, that they need money, and that Russia is going to Nazi-style invade all of Europe if he wins this war and is emboldened, which seems absurd to me. Biden says this, and offers no evidence that this is a Russian aim. I do not think people understand how many soldiers would be needed to  invade AND conquer AND occupy all of Ukraine, let alone other eastern European countries. (some people talk about how the Nazis had forces that were 1.5 million strong just for invading Poland back in WWII) Guess I could be wrong about this, though, but from reading and watching interviews it seems absurd.

Anyhoo, I really do believe, regardless of how Russia and America have manipulated this situation to serve their interests, that this is a disaster for the country of Ukraine and its people and I hope that some kind of diplomatic settlement is on the horizon.

  On 1/9/2024 at 3:13 PM, decibal cooper said:

it seems like the Biden admin is hell bent on prolonging the conflict for as long as possible. Also, Putin, now that Russia has the upper hand in the conflict, is most likely happy at this point for the chance to annex as much territory where there are majority Russian-speaking people there as possible

The US will not commit forces, but I don't think Biden wants to prolong the conflict for as long as possible, it is costing a lot of political capital in the US and other "Western" nations.

Russia has the upper hand briefly, but they're using missiles purchased from North Korea who will not be willing to deplete their arsenal by any significant amount. I don't think (in my completely non-expert as a military analyst opinion) that Russia's superiority will last long.

  On 1/9/2024 at 3:13 PM, decibal cooper said:

the Minsk agreement for peace in the Donbas region of 2014 was a diplomatic trick meant to help Ukraine bolster its military capabilities for a future confrontation with Russia

The Minsk agreement in 2014 failed, the 2015 Minsk II accord lasted a little longer, and Russia certainly used the same period to increase arms in Russian controlled areas. Also, the analysis by that organization that "NATO wanted war" overlooks the slightly inconvenient fact that Russia was the one who invaded. Yes NATO expanded into Eastern Europe, because the countries requested the protection - I wonder why? You can make the argument that Russia saw that as a provocation, but defensive posturing is not undertaken to invite conflict.

@decibal cooper you're either drinking swill or making it, i can't tell which. trying to make this about USA furthers russian propaganda. russia invaded ukraine. that's what happened. USA is standing by an ally, along with many other countries that are supporting ukraine against murderous aggression. ukrainians are the ones choosing to fight and asking for support. 

also putin reiterated again last month his intention to effectively conquer ukraine 

I like Vlad Vexlers analysis on this subject. Although he uses the dreaded “talking head” format (his chats) and an occasional adam curtis style micro documentary, I give him some slack because of his ME diagnosis. He’s a UK philosopher, born in Russia. So besides knowing the language actually understanding Russian culture. Which is not a given for the average western journalist covering the conflict, I’m afraid. As a philosopher he’s mostly (and professionally) interested in democratic decline, but since 2022 also commenting on this conflict. Regularly covering journalists from former ussr states (now eastern europe). Essentially covering russian speaking journalists and experts, translating it in the literal sense but also in the cultural sense and putting it in a historical perspective. 

As an example

  On 1/9/2024 at 9:52 PM, trying to be less rude said:

@decibal cooper you're either drinking swill or making it, i can't tell which. trying to make this about USA furthers russian propaganda. russia invaded ukraine. that's what happened. USA is standing by an ally, along with many other countries that are supporting ukraine against murderous aggression. ukrainians are the ones choosing to fight and asking for support. 

 

also putin reiterated again last month his intention to effectively conquer ukraine 

i couldn't say it better myself brother.  the only way to understand this is to remove all historical context, especially the history of the past decade

  On 1/10/2024 at 4:08 AM, zlemflolia said:

i couldn't say it better myself brother.  the only way to understand this is to remove all historical context, especially the history of the past decade

early on it seemed the clear goal was to put in another puppet and let russia loot ukraine of its raw materials. the energy situation underlies everything. the coming years are gonna be even weirder and full of fuckery. 

bad news first... I got in touch today with an ex Ukrainian gf and she told me she lost some friends, saw rockets flying over her head and had to pass this past new year's eve on a shelter... of course I cried... shit's fucked up... she wants to leave Ukraine but her mother insists on staying so she's not gonna leave her behind...

I have another Ukrainian friend who also worked with me on ships and he managed to move to Canada and he's doing pretty well... he's now trying to bring his family over there... these are the good news...

  On 1/9/2024 at 9:52 PM, trying to be less rude said:

@decibal cooper ukrainians are the ones choosing to fight and asking for support.

wait i thought they were drafting more and more segments of the population beccause nobody does want to fight?

  On 1/10/2024 at 5:53 AM, cruising for burgers said:

I have another Ukrainian friend who also worked with me on ships and he managed to move to Canada and he's doing pretty well... he's now trying to bring his family over there... these are the good news...

isn't it nice when refugees can find a home instead of being demonised.

  On 1/10/2024 at 6:39 AM, usagi said:

isn't it nice when refugees can find a home instead of being demonised.

Let's not get it twisted though - this applies to Ukranians because there is a significant Ukranian population here already and also, they're white. There is unfortunately a percentage of the population that think the Australian approach to refugees is the one we (Canada) should be taking - though thankfully that is mostly on Xhitter and r/Canada (what a fucking shithole that subreddit is) so probably foreign agents and bots mostly making those claims along with North Texas (Alberta).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-asylum-seeker-increase-1.6916053

^ you missed the irony in the point I was making, m9. I guess I should've used more emojis.

  On 1/10/2024 at 6:58 AM, usagi said:

^ you missed the irony in the point I was making, m9. I guess I should've used more emojis.

I totally did. Facepalm for chen. 

it's ok. we all know white people can't be refugees.

  On 1/10/2024 at 7:30 AM, usagi said:

it's ok. we all know white people can't be refugees.

ex-pats is the preferred nomenclature.

  On 1/10/2024 at 1:58 AM, Satans Little Helper said:

I like Vlad Vexlers analysis on this subject. Although he uses the dreaded “talking head” format (his chats) and an occasional adam curtis style micro documentary, I give him some slack because of his ME diagnosis. He’s a UK philosopher, born in Russia. So besides knowing the language actually understanding Russian culture. Which is not a given for the average western journalist covering the conflict, I’m afraid. As a philosopher he’s mostly (and professionally) interested in democratic decline, but since 2022 also commenting on this conflict. Regularly covering journalists from former ussr states (now eastern europe). Essentially covering russian speaking journalists and experts, translating it in the literal sense but also in the cultural sense and putting it in a historical perspective. 

As an example

 

Expand  

can't get on board with his idea that tulsi gabbard represents the alt left. i can't think of anyone on the left (or right) who takes her seriously and her dallyings back in election season were pretty transparent. she's a stooge. a tool. 

but i appreciate his thoughts on everything even if he misses the mark sometimes. i've watched some of his other videos.. long time ago.. this is the first  one i've watched in a while though. can't remember what i watched previously. 

  On 1/9/2024 at 9:52 PM, trying to be less rude said:

@decibal cooper you're either drinking swill or making it, i can't tell which. trying to make this about USA furthers russian propaganda. russia invaded ukraine. that's what happened. USA is standing by an ally, along with many other countries that are supporting ukraine against murderous aggression. ukrainians are the ones choosing to fight and asking for support. 

 

also putin reiterated again last month his intention to effectively conquer ukraine 

My brother in Christ, I politely disagree. Russia did the same thing in Georgia in 2008, and there the conflict was also very much tied to NATO membership. Russia now occupies something like 20% of Georgia after the conflict there. Having a NATO country on its border is a clear red line, as Putin made clear with that invasion of Georgia.

Another way to look at this question of aggression is to do a thought experiment and imagine if China, Russia, and Iran started a military alliance and began building military bases all throughout South America. Their next and final move was to recruit/invite Mexico into the military alliance. Do you not think that America would invade Mexico to prevent this from happening?

Obama was pressured to intervene in Ukraine when things started heating up there, and he declined. He said something like 'Ukraine is not of dire strategic interest to America, but it will always be so for Russia.' One user mentioned taking into context the last decade, but you need to go further. NATO was Russia's mortal enemy during the entirety of the Cold War. If you do not take these things into consideration, then in my humble opinion, you are maybe buying into American propaganda. Just like the Russians we do it too.

Also, that Reuters article does not convince me that Putin's goal is to 'effectively conquer' Ukraine. Like I said before with the example of the Nazi invasion of Poland, which is a much smaller nation than Ukraine, and which the Nazi's used 1.5 million soldiers to invade, conquer, and then occupy. Take a look at the map of Ukraine showing the Russian occupied and recaptured zones. It would be a fool's errand for Russia to try and conquer and occupy all of Ukraine. Russia like all major nations has its own problems domestically as well, going around engaging in imperialist wars like America has done since 9/11 is not in Putin's style. Also, as a last point, you say I am swilling, but you do not mention the 2022 peace talks in Istanbul. If Putin wanted to conquer Ukraine, then why was he doing peace talks with those fellas?