Glitch plugins

  David R James said:

  epsy said:

basically if you're coming on some electronic music forum asking for glitch plugins, you're already starting out with a foot in the grave

 

Sorry mate but ive been making music 4 years im just trying spice up my live sets

sorry man, didn't mean to come off as arrogant or anything. Like the other guy said too, happy accidents are a totally different thing. at least in order to make an accident you have to experiment first. not just let a plugin run the course through thousands of seemingly random happy accidents. Truth is, you could set up somethig in say, ableton live and assign a bunch of knobs to fx controls of time based stuff like delays and whatnot to produce some whacked out fx on the fly. The best part is that the things you decide to control and the way you set is up is what makes it unique to your sound of course

not exactly a glitch plugin, but i love the dfx skidder vst. it's just a chopper, but with a good number of variables. can be random or not, very easy and fun to automate.

  catsonearth said:

a glitch plugin? seriously? how about you just fucking do it yourself, man. honestly, how hard is it to chop shit up and apply effects to it or make a field recording and mangle it? jesus people are getting so lazy these days. no wonder electronic music sucks lately.

automatic glitchers are probably present on most of the electronic music you currently listen to post 1999,

its a fact of life

this whole 'do it by hand' quasi standard is hilarity, because non of the fucking electronic artists who people worship did it by hand they all used tricks

if its just going to sound like a generic stutter at the end of the day why does it matter if its made by hand or done manually?

When AFX/rdj discovered the crazy rapid fire snare rush effect on Hangable Autobulb it was most likely the 'roll' feature on an old drum machine being automated in real-time. So essentially what im saying is one of the first glitch out drill and bass albums is using automated glitching effects so stop being whiners about 'glitch plugins are ruining electronic music'

lack of creativity, laziness is what's ruining electronic music.

  Awepittance said:

automatic glitchers are probably present on most of the electronic music you currently listen to post 1999,

its a fact of life

 

this whole 'do it by hand' quasi standard is hilarity, because non of the fucking electronic artists who people worship did it by hand they all used tricks

 

if its just going to sound like a generic stutter at the end of the day why does it matter if its made by hand or done manually?

 

When AFX/rdj discovered the crazy rapid fire snare rush effect on Hangable Autobulb it was most likely the 'roll' feature on an old drum machine being automated in real-time. So essentially what im saying is one of the first glitch out drill and bass albums is using automated glitching effects so stop being whiners about 'glitch plugins are ruining electronic music'

 

lack of creativity, laziness is what's ruining electronic music.

well, that probably explains why i don't like much music post 1999. hah.

but seriously though, you say "lack of creativity, laziness is what's ruining electronic music" and i agree with that, but in my mind things like "glitch plugins" are a part of the general laziness and lack of creativity in electronic music today. sure, we're all composers in a way, so you could argue like ksincu that all of these things are just tools to get out the sound in our heads, but i think that simplifies this music a bit. we're not simply composers - this music has an unmistakingly huge technical component that also makes it very much process based. but in my opinion, when you start trying to remove all of the admittedly tedious processes out of the act of creating your music, you're missing a huge part of where the artistry comes from. this music is all about the details and if you can't be bothered with the details, then you're in the wrong place, you know? it's my opinion that a lot of the character in electronic music comes from the hand of the artist manipulating the sounds he/she is working with.

this isn't like playing guitar, we don't have to practice and hone our technical playing skills to make this music, but the trade off is that we have to spend a lot of time in front of a computer or a synth or a mixer not actively making music, but getting yourself to a state where the music can be made. yea, it's annoying at times and it can be tedious and it can cramp your style, but to me, it's something essential that connects you to what you're doing.

this music is getting so easy to make these days that i could literally fire up a few plugins, set them to random automated patterns, sit back and press record for a few minutes, slap a title on it and call it a masterpiece without actually doing anything. imo, that only means that if you're trying to be something other than a hack, you gotta step up your game immensely.

the problem with all these plugins is that you only use them to achieve something that already exists. you bust out your "glitch plugin" because you want to achieve a certain effect that you've been exposed to before and would like to incorporate into your own work. that's all fine and dandy, but if you were to do it "by hand" and mess around with different ways to achieve that on your own, there's a huge chance that you may end up with something that doesn't sound anything like a traditional "glitch" effect or even anything like what you started out looking for, but is vastly more interesting than what you originally had in mind. that's all part of the process, it's part of what keeps things new and interesting.

that's just the way i see it.

  catsonearth said:

but in my opinion, when you start trying to remove all of the admittedly tedious processes out of the act of creating your music, you're missing a huge part of where the artistry comes from. this music is all about the details and if you can't be bothered with the details, then you're in the wrong place, you know? it's my opinion that a lot of the character in electronic music comes from the hand of the artist manipulating the sounds he/she is working with.

Yeah, that's how I see it as well. Good post.

  catsonearth said:

  Awepittance said:

automatic glitchers are probably present on most of the electronic music you currently listen to post 1999,

its a fact of life

 

this whole 'do it by hand' quasi standard is hilarity, because non of the fucking electronic artists who people worship did it by hand they all used tricks

 

if its just going to sound like a generic stutter at the end of the day why does it matter if its made by hand or done manually?

 

When AFX/rdj discovered the crazy rapid fire snare rush effect on Hangable Autobulb it was most likely the 'roll' feature on an old drum machine being automated in real-time. So essentially what im saying is one of the first glitch out drill and bass albums is using automated glitching effects so stop being whiners about 'glitch plugins are ruining electronic music'

 

lack of creativity, laziness is what's ruining electronic music.

 

well, that probably explains why i don't like much music post 1999. hah.

 

but seriously though, you say "lack of creativity, laziness is what's ruining electronic music" and i agree with that, but in my mind things like "glitch plugins" are a part of the general laziness and lack of creativity in electronic music today. sure, we're all composers in a way, so you could argue like ksincu that all of these things are just tools to get out the sound in our heads, but i think that simplifies this music a bit. we're not simply composers - this music has an unmistakingly huge technical component that also makes it very much process based. but in my opinion, when you start trying to remove all of the admittedly tedious processes out of the act of creating your music, you're missing a huge part of where the artistry comes from. this music is all about the details and if you can't be bothered with the details, then you're in the wrong place, you know? it's my opinion that a lot of the character in electronic music comes from the hand of the artist manipulating the sounds he/she is working with.

 

this isn't like playing guitar, we don't have to practice and hone our technical playing skills to make this music, but the trade off is that we have to spend a lot of time in front of a computer or a synth or a mixer not actively making music, but getting yourself to a state where the music can be made. yea, it's annoying at times and it can be tedious and it can cramp your style, but to me, it's something essential that connects you to what you're doing.

 

this music is getting so easy to make these days that i could literally fire up a few plugins, set them to random automated patterns, sit back and press record for a few minutes, slap a title on it and call it a masterpiece without actually doing anything. imo, that only means that if you're trying to be something other than a hack, you gotta step up your game immensely.

 

the problem with all these plugins is that you only use them to achieve something that already exists. you bust out your "glitch plugin" because you want to achieve a certain effect that you've been exposed to before and would like to incorporate into your own work. that's all fine and dandy, but if you were to do it "by hand" and mess around with different ways to achieve that on your own, there's a huge chance that you may end up with something that doesn't sound anything like a traditional "glitch" effect or even anything like what you started out looking for, but is vastly more interesting than what you originally had in mind. that's all part of the process, it's part of what keeps things new and interesting.

 

that's just the way i see it.

i can't see why you're so proscriptive about music, it's up to the individual how to express himself

catsonearth does make a good point tho. i use a couple "glitch plugins" every now and then, and it's really piss easy and usually gets you exactly what you want. or just throw it on random or whatever if you want instant glitchness. yeah, great.

but back when i started out, i was doing all the "glitching" manually in all kinds of different programs (as was most everyone else, i'd imagine).. i might not have always got the sound or effect i wanted, but i'll be damned if i didnt learn/figure out an assload of cool techniques that i still use today (i dont even really make electronic music anymore).

i can see using those plugins for live use, and even at home if that's your thing. but you can learn much more doing it by yourself.

but hey, if you already know what youre doing and know what you wanna do, then these kinds of plugins are fine i suppose. but the bottom line for me is: it just doesnt seem as fun or exciting. just cold super calculated computer music (but i guess some people are into that too). i dunno. whatever floats your boat.

so why dont you guys do all of your effects manually if its more educational and makes better music?

  Awepittance said:

  catsonearth said:

a glitch plugin? seriously? how about you just fucking do it yourself, man. honestly, how hard is it to chop shit up and apply effects to it or make a field recording and mangle it? jesus people are getting so lazy these days. no wonder electronic music sucks lately.

 

 

automatic glitchers are probably present on most of the electronic music you currently listen to post 1999,

its a fact of life

 

this whole 'do it by hand' quasi standard is hilarity, because non of the fucking electronic artists who people worship did it by hand they all used tricks

 

if its just going to sound like a generic stutter at the end of the day why does it matter if its made by hand or done manually?

 

When AFX/rdj discovered the crazy rapid fire snare rush effect on Hangable Autobulb it was most likely the 'roll' feature on an old drum machine being automated in real-time. So essentially what im saying is one of the first glitch out drill and bass albums is using automated glitching effects so stop being whiners about 'glitch plugins are ruining electronic music'

 

lack of creativity, laziness is what's ruining electronic music.

Absolutely.

hmmm... was gonna do an all inclusive response to the last few posts, but Ill do separate ones, so I can break up the points and not be messy

ok, I can't coherently verbalize my thoughts on these matters anymore. I write long rambling messes of train of thought responses, and it's just too much for me to organize. I really give up.

All I can say really is: LFO's.

Almost every synth ever has one or more... we've all used them.

It performs a function, so you dont have to.

It can be used creatively, or not.

If you think you can argue the difference in it's function to any other process that in some way lets you be "hands-off" go for it... but you won't convince me.

and also, your point about "this music is getting so easy to make these days that i could literally fire up a few plugins, set them to random automated patterns, sit back and press record for a few minutes, slap a title on it and call it a masterpiece without actually doing anything." is flawed. just because you call it a masterpiece, doesnt make it one. And I doubt that its SO good, that other people would listen to it and say it was a master piece... although the initial perception might be to be impressed, but anyone that actually LISTENS to music, would recognize the lacking aspects.

Artillery 2 is the coolest one I've seen: http://www.sugar-bytes.com/content/product...dex.php?lang=en, and also check out effectrix by the same company. Besides that reaktor is also a good glitch plugin, especially this one grain effect i use that has a full sequencer, can't remember the name of it right now. Besides that there are a ton of one off FSU plugins released all of the time. Check out kvr-audio.

great post CoE. i think that is a great philosophy on music-making.

however, i also think the line between human and computer-assisted composition blurred way before 1999. you could say the same thing about a synth - why not just use sine waves? why not draw the sine waves by hand instead of having the computer do it for you? what you're talking about is higher-concept, but falls back on the same principle.

this ties in to how i think about autotune. artists are not only content, but interested, in having computers assist and symbiotically alter their vocal contribution.

i just hit my multi-track with a hammer when i want a glitch effect.

This is one of the most electronic music discussions we've had here.

yeah it's well electronic music

if you want to 'glitch' or at least 'spaz' live then short of reaktor i recommend devine machine lucifer. you can really jazz out on it.

Just press random buttons lol

  aron said:

i dunno. whatever floats your boat.

exactly and for a lot of people Glitch VST floats their fuckin boat. the number of popular electronic music musicians i personally know have admitted to using this plugin constantly is absolutely astounding to me. Most of these artists are hailed for their technical skills and people don't seem to notice nor care. What i find very interesting about this argument in general is that for people with not a high amount of technical knowledge about electronic music will be a lot more easily impressed by a glitching plugin than say someone who's used that plugin before. The more knowledgeable you become about how electronic music is made the more these types of plugins seem 'dirty' or 'too easy'. But for me this is just the same as deciding ' do i use unaltered drum sounds or not?' 'should i just use this unaltered keyboard preset on this song?' . Every artist makes a choice. Personally i'm kind of glad so many people are getting off on using glitch plugins, let them have their fun and i'm sure many of the people who complain about the glitch plugins would be blown away by certain people who made music using them (without their knowledge of course, unjaded). A lot of people pretend to be on this pedestal where they can say 'hey thats a glitch plugin!' and look down upon it, but those same people will also be tricked by a different glitch plugin thinking 'holy shit man how did they do that?'. To me what this really comes down to is that a lot of people experience enjoyment of electronic music like the citizens of the Emerald City in Wizard of Oz. If they really saw what was behind the curtain the magic would be revealed and eventual lessening the enjoyment of the music.

I'm personally a little tired of the 'glitchy' sound in general, especially the quantized stutters and sequenced time stretch bursts. I was sick of it long before the popular automated plugins come out, and im glad tons of plugins do this now so it will hopefully exhaust this sound for everyone else(faster than if no automated glitchers were around) .

but frankly i think Cats on Earth's argument is just as old fashioned as saying 'drum machines are ruining music' , glitch plugins, drugs, any periphery things to the music itself music are symptoms, not causes of the problem. Sure Glitch plugins might be the bone you've picked, but i can go through a whole list of other reasons why electronic music or music in general is lacking creativity these days, glitch plugins in my strong opinion is a tiny sliver of the spectrum.

in defense of glitch plugins, it's not that easy to actually make them sound good. you pretty much have to do the same things you would if you were doing it "by hand". the difference is that this is one plugin. it's fun to use and the more in-depth you get with it the better results... in defense of good music, electronic music sucks.

  Awepittance said:

  aron said:

i dunno. whatever floats your boat.

 

exactly and for a lot of people Glitch VST floats their fuckin boat. the number of popular electronic music musicians i personally know have admitted to using this plugin constantly is absolutely astounding to me. Most of these artists are hailed for their technical skills and people don't seem to notice nor care. What i find very interesting about this argument in general is that for people with not a high amount of technical knowledge about electronic music will be a lot more easily impressed by a glitching plugin than say someone who's used that plugin before. The more knowledgeable you become about how electronic music is made the more these types of plugins seem 'dirty' or 'too easy'. But for me this is just the same as deciding ' do i use unaltered drum sounds or not?' 'should i just use this unaltered keyboard preset on this song?' . Every artist makes a choice. Personally i'm kind of glad so many people are getting off on using glitch plugins, let them have their fun and i'm sure many of the people who complain about the glitch plugins would be blown away by certain people who made music using them (without their knowledge of course, unjaded). A lot of people pretend to be on this pedestal where they can say 'hey thats a glitch plugin!' and look down upon it, but those same people will also be tricked by a different glitch plugin thinking 'holy shit man how did they do that?'. To me what this really comes down to is that a lot of people experience enjoyment of electronic music like the citizens of the Emerald City in Wizard of Oz. If they really saw what was behind the curtain the magic would be revealed and eventual lessening the enjoyment of the music.

I'm personally a little tired of the 'glitchy' sound in general, especially the quantized stutters and sequenced time stretch bursts. I was sick of it long before the popular automated plugins come out, and im glad tons of plugins do this now so it will hopefully exhaust this sound for everyone else(faster than if no automated glitchers were around) .

but frankly i think Cats on Earth's argument is just as old fashioned as saying 'drum machines are ruining music' , glitch plugins, drugs, any periphery things to the music itself music are symptoms, not causes of the problem. Sure Glitch plugins might be the bone you've picked, but i can go through a whole list of other reasons why electronic music or music in general is lacking creativity these days, glitch plugins in my strong opinion is a tiny sliver of the spectrum.

so very well said.

here is a little track i did years ago using glitch plugin...

  Kcinsu said:

so very well said.

happy new year! hope you werent one of the 40(?) people arrested in downtown last night hehe

  Awepittance said:

  aron said:

i dunno. whatever floats your boat.

 

To me what this really comes down to is that a lot of people experience enjoyment of electronic music like the citizens of the Emerald City in Wizard of Oz. If they really saw what was behind the curtain the magic would be revealed and eventual lessening the enjoyment of the music.

this is how i feel about electronic music now.

  Awepittance said:

  Kcinsu said:

so very well said.

 

happy new year! hope you werent one of the 40(?) people arrested in downtown last night hehe

to you too man!

nah, i was at a house party in the mission... it was actually surprisingly awesome... no douchebags, and I met several producers and film makers. good times all around