live deep fried fish

it might be cultural bias chen but that vid still made me feel sick :(

Yeah I can understand how you might feel sick, but there's a difference between feeling ill and calling something wrong.

  On 11/17/2009 at 8:48 PM, Yegg said:

The restaurant is just flaunting how fresh their cuisine is, that's all.

call me old fashioned, but i'd prefer to see a tank of live fish over a dodgy youtube video with sadistic undertones.

  On 11/17/2009 at 10:43 PM, chenGOD said:

Yeah I can understand how you might feel sick, but there's a difference between feeling ill and calling something wrong.

Yeah I just realised I admitted the only the other day I would be willing to try the live squid thing. You're absolute right.

This is fucking wrong though.

You think it's wrong. I don't have a problem with it. Who's right?

Exactly.

It is purely an opinion.

Seriously whatever about cultrual influence in modern day society when it comes to animal rights.

The video I posted some year ago of a man somewhere in asia skinning a dog (among other animals), alive, for the sake of the fur, can also be explained in this same way. His habitus and the need of money makes it okay for him to skin the animals in that way. Same thing with e.g. boys growing up with their father hitting cattle on a daily basis. You gotta see it from their perspective and their base of references - yes of course, but does it make the action itself less fucked up?

There's a huge difference between a human living in the forest killing a monkey because of survival, and a hype around eating sea creatures partly fried just because it's "awesome".

I'm not talking about not killing animals, I'm talking about empathy and suffering.

Why the fuck would you actively accept to hurt another being in this way? You know the fish is suffering and you could do something about it very easily, so why not do it (chenGOD)?...

gah, just so pissed of.

The whole thing just shows to which extent you respect life - unaware or not.

I think the point chen makes is that his cultural background has brought him up differently. I guess when you are brought up a certain way you don't really know any different, nor are you trained to feel any different or empathatic towards such matters when it's been the normal for him.

This may not be his point. But this is certainly where I can see the other side of the coin.

Habitus

Apart from that.

A common essential question: What makes us humans?

Common answer: To be able to understand the way another being feels - empathy.

  On 11/17/2009 at 9:50 PM, chenGOD said:

holy fuck the ethnocentrism in this thread is amazing.

ethnocentrism is one extreme, total cultural relativism the other. what do you think about female circumcision f.e., do you draw any line?

sure, its wonderful to have different cultures on earth, and damn, i love asia (just came back from there again) but your posts in this topic come across as youre the super-wise "i have seen it all"-cosmopolitan who would look at fishermen cutting off sharkfins (and throwing them back in the sea while still alive) and saying: "hey man, its their CULTURE!"

99% i only lurk on watmm, this post made me reply.

Fuck sharks. I'm in China, where is this restaurant?

fuck that dish

hmm, didnt knew chenGOD was asian, thought he just moved there from the "western world".

anyway, its probably the best to ask the fish what he thinks...

  On 11/17/2009 at 11:42 PM, eichel said:

  On 11/17/2009 at 9:50 PM, chenGOD said:

holy fuck the ethnocentrism in this thread is amazing.

 

ethnocentrism is one extreme, total cultural relativism the other. what do you think about female circumcision f.e., do you draw any line?

 

sure, its wonderful to have different cultures on earth, and damn, i love asia (just came back from there again) but your posts in this topic come across as youre the super-wise "i have seen it all"-cosmopolitan who would look at fishermen cutting off sharkfins (and throwing them back in the sea while still alive) and saying: "hey man, its their CULTURE!"

 

 

99% i only lurk on watmm, this post made me reply.

did chen saying that he didn't have a problem with eating a live fish make him cosmopolitan and super-wise? I wasn't aware that had happened at all. He was merely expressing his opinion. He then added, to maybe give more credence to his opinion, or substantiate it with an experience, that he himself has eating an octopus that was living/still moving. Clearly he has seen it all. Also that fish was most certainly not thrown back into the sea after eating.

I feel that most of the negative reactions in the thread are due to the people in the video. They're laughing, having a good time, treating this fish as a novelty. This is whats upsetting most of you I feel. Treating a dying animal like a plaything. A video of a prepared fish maybe once moving it's gills with no sound would surely not have elicited this much of a response.

What's worse from the point of view of an animal: A chicken, kept for years in terrible conditions, unable to move, fed food it's not designed to eat, injected with steroids and antibiotics and then killed before it gets any sicker,

or a fish that was fished out of the ocean, fried, then eaten and laughed at for 10 minutes.

You're absolutely right dr lopez. It was the people lauging and treating the suffering animal like a toy that pissed me off.

  On 11/18/2009 at 12:26 AM, dr lopez said:

  On 11/17/2009 at 11:42 PM, eichel said:

  On 11/17/2009 at 9:50 PM, chenGOD said:

holy fuck the ethnocentrism in this thread is amazing.

 

ethnocentrism is one extreme, total cultural relativism the other. what do you think about female circumcision f.e., do you draw any line?

 

sure, its wonderful to have different cultures on earth, and damn, i love asia (just came back from there again) but your posts in this topic come across as youre the super-wise "i have seen it all"-cosmopolitan who would look at fishermen cutting off sharkfins (and throwing them back in the sea while still alive) and saying: "hey man, its their CULTURE!"

 

 

99% i only lurk on watmm, this post made me reply.

did chen saying that he didn't have a problem with eating a live fish make him cosmopolitan and super-wise? I wasn't aware that had happened at all. He was merely expressing his opinion. He then added, to maybe give more credence to his opinion, or substantiate it with an experience, that he himself has eating an octopus that was living/still moving. Clearly he has seen it all. Also that fish was most certainly not thrown back into the sea after eating.

 

I feel that most of the negative reactions in the thread are due to the people in the video. They're laughing, having a good time, treating this fish as a novelty. This is whats upsetting most of you I feel. Treating a dying animal like a plaything. A video of a prepared fish maybe once moving it's gills with no sound would surely not have elicited this much of a response.

 

What's worse from the point of view of an animal: A chicken, kept for years in terrible conditions, unable to move, fed food it's not designed to eat, injected with steroids and antibiotics and then killed before it gets any sicker,

 

or a fish that was fished out of the ocean, fried, then eaten and laughed at for 10 minutes.

as i said in my 2nd post, i didnt knew he had an asian background. gives everything a different perspective.

but the subtext i read in his post(s) was that he could confirm the entertainment-factor of eating still-living animals. and it came across as he was showing off/trying to shock with it. that was irritating me.

and to your chicken-fish-comparison: both are examples for torture, none better than the other. but after all, i didnt saw a video of concentration-camps-chickens being laughed at on youtube and, on top, somebody trying to defend that.

monsters

where is the frying part?

  On 11/17/2009 at 11:35 PM, abusivegeorge said:

I think the point chen makes is that his cultural background has brought him up differently. I guess when you are brought up a certain way you don't really know any different, nor are you trained to feel any different or empathatic towards such matters when it's been the normal for him.

 

This may not be his point. But this is certainly where I can see the other side of the coin.

it's all about learning to do things in a better way though.

thats what we as cultures are supposed to do for each other is

refine our flaws and weaknesses. make new solutions.

....or we can just do what we want. thats what most of the world

does and that leads us to where we are right now on this planet.

  On 11/17/2009 at 11:29 PM, plisb said:

Seriously whatever about cultrual influence in modern day society when it comes to animal rights.

The video I posted some year ago of a man somewhere in asia skinning a dog (among other animals), alive, for the sake of the fur, can also be explained in this same way. His habitus and the need of money makes it okay for him to skin the animals in that way. Same thing with e.g. boys growing up with their father hitting cattle on a daily basis. You gotta see it from their perspective and their base of references - yes of course, but does it make the action itself less fucked up?

 

There's a huge difference between a human living in the forest killing a monkey because of survival, and a hype around eating sea creatures partly fried just because it's "awesome".

 

I'm not talking about not killing animals, I'm talking about empathy and suffering.

Why the fuck would you actively accept to hurt another being in this way? You know the fish is suffering and you could do something about it very easily, so why not do it (chenGOD)?...

gah, just so pissed of.

The whole thing just shows to which extent you respect life - unaware or not.

+1

  On 11/17/2009 at 11:40 PM, plisb said:

Habitus

Apart from that.

A common essential question: What makes us humans?

Common answer: To be able to understand the way another being feels - empathy.

so true

Aw shit guys, you have a lot to learn about the world. Eating live fish is torture? Get off your computers and do something worthwhile.

  On 11/18/2009 at 1:59 AM, Rabid said:

Aw shit guys, you have a lot to learn about the world. Eating live fish is torture? Get off your computers and do something worthwhile.

What a spectacular way to miss both sides of the argument lol.

What, stating what I think? Bitching about this kind of stuff is stupid.

  On 11/18/2009 at 2:03 AM, Rabid said:

What, stating what I think? Bitching about this kind of stuff is stupid.

We are stating what we think also. Touche.

i think we are here to move on from any old set cultural structure that

condones anything that is not The Truth. we have so many opportunities in

this new world of 2009, we can make so many more choices. we are here to learn together

how to give each other new opportunities and more options so we can make

choices outside necessity, social cultural pressures and fear.

choices outside are own wantings and lusts.... thinking

about the other before the self.

It is not just about condemning and judgment, but instead it is about

admonishment and new solutions and healing.

ad·mon·ish (ād-mŏn'ĭsh)

tr.v. ad·mon·ished, ad·mon·ish·ing, ad·mon·ish·es

1 To reprove gently but earnestly.

2 To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution.

3 To remind of something forgotten or disregarded, as an obligation or a responsibility.

  On 11/18/2009 at 2:05 AM, troon said:

ad·mon·ish (ād-mŏn'ĭsh)

tr.v. ad·mon·ished, ad·mon·ish·ing, ad·mon·ish·es

1 To reprove gently but earnestly.

 

2 To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution.

 

3 To remind of something forgotten or disregarded, as an obligation or a responsibility.

Admonish, eh? Sounds like something a self-righteous prick would do.