christians

this thread is such a failure.

anyway,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVjuO5v5Cts

christians - still funny.

  On 1/5/2010 at 12:13 AM, chenGOD said:

A/D..I believe there is spirituality inherent in all of us. I don't believe that spirituality can be defined by any system of laws or rules. I don't believe that prayer achieves anything, except perhaps as a placebo. I believe that science will be the means through which the human race will be able to evolve. I don't believe there's some dude in the sky with a long beard watching all of us run around like chickens with our heads cut off.

amen

  On 1/5/2010 at 12:13 AM, chenGOD said:

A/D..I believe there is spirituality inherent in all of us. I don't believe that spirituality can be defined by any system of laws or rules. I don't believe that prayer achieves anything, except perhaps as a placebo. I believe that science will be the means through which the human race will be able to evolve. I don't believe there's some dude in the sky with a long beard watching all of us run around like chickens with our heads cut off.

yay, we agree on almost everything! word! i suspected that would happen.

i think successful "prayer" is intention plus action. like, if you really want something to happen, you basically have to do it yourself. but i find when i try my hardest, i get help from the most amazing places - and that to me is "my prayers being answered".

i think we will definitely change through science. i hope we get better through spirituality. i'm going to try my best, anyhow.

:love:

i receive some of my divine inspiration from music's (and i'm sure i'm not the only one)

....so i think discussing metaphysical things and spiritual things here at watmm is very appropriate.

some of the music's we all listen to are very spiritual, whether we define them that way or not.

these musics unquestionable resinate with the heart and inspire a certain type of thinking from within.

(also one of the main reasons people like bass music's so much is that it registers in the brain in the same way as the heartbeat)

spirituality and ancient biblical wisdom = idm

church and religion = dim

no no, see Rook won't accept that. and he knows it all, cause he's studied St. Thomas of Aquin's works. and you can't refute ol st thom. no sir. that would be heretical.

and remember, that letting gays marry will lead to you, and me and all other men marrying horses.

hey troon where's your avatar from? who made it? whats the name of the drawing?

  On 1/6/2010 at 10:50 AM, triachus said:

hey troon where's your avatar from? who made it? whats the name of the drawing?

i think it's a doctor's uniform from the Great Plague in 1665

  On 1/6/2010 at 1:02 PM, ezkerraldean said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 10:50 AM, triachus said:

hey troon where's your avatar from? who made it? whats the name of the drawing?

i think it's a doctor's uniform from the Great Plague in 1665

most interesting part of this thread.

  On 1/6/2010 at 1:26 PM, Gocab said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 1:02 PM, ezkerraldean said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 10:50 AM, triachus said:

hey troon where's your avatar from? who made it? whats the name of the drawing?

i think it's a doctor's uniform from the Great Plague in 1665

most interesting part of this thread.

lol yes

they supposedly put nice-smelling stuff in the beak thing, to purify the air and whatnot

as a christian myself i won't abide this ribbing

It basically goes like this. I read teh Bible once, and a few wikipedia pages on some other religions. And I am basically smarter than 2000 years of tradition and men who have devoted their entire lives to teh subject. Word.

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:37 PM, Rook said:

It basically goes like this. I read teh Bible once, and a few wikipedia pages on some other religions. And I am basically smarter than 2000 years of tradition and men who have devoted their entire lives to teh subject. Word.

honestly i am on my second cover-to-cover reading of the bible, about 175 pages to go, and it's done more for me than a lot of other books i've read

I tried reading the bible but honestly the plot was predictable and characters uninspired. 4/10

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:38 PM, IRARI said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:37 PM, Rook said:

It basically goes like this. I read teh Bible once, and a few wikipedia pages on some other religions. And I am basically smarter than 2000 years of tradition and men who have devoted their entire lives to teh subject. Word.

 

honestly i am on my second cover-to-cover reading of the bible, about 175 pages to go, and it's done more for me than a lot of other books i've read

In what way?

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:40 PM, Rook said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:38 PM, IRARI said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:37 PM, Rook said:

It basically goes like this. I read teh Bible once, and a few wikipedia pages on some other religions. And I am basically smarter than 2000 years of tradition and men who have devoted their entire lives to teh subject. Word.

 

honestly i am on my second cover-to-cover reading of the bible, about 175 pages to go, and it's done more for me than a lot of other books i've read

 

In what way?

i'm reading the king james version and i find the linguistics of it appealing, and i find the non-historical parts of the bible profound and inspirational

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:43 PM, IRARI said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:40 PM, Rook said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:38 PM, IRARI said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:37 PM, Rook said:

It basically goes like this. I read teh Bible once, and a few wikipedia pages on some other religions. And I am basically smarter than 2000 years of tradition and men who have devoted their entire lives to teh subject. Word.

 

honestly i am on my second cover-to-cover reading of the bible, about 175 pages to go, and it's done more for me than a lot of other books i've read

 

In what way?

 

i'm reading the king james version and i find the linguistics of it appealing, and i find the non-historical parts of the bible profound and inspirational

Well, the KJV is most certainly the definitive poetic of Biblical language. However, the translation is unfortunately terrible. Though, for someone interested more in literature than an actual understanding of the intent of the author, it is hard to find a translation more beautiful than the James.

I know it is fashionable now to make fun of the Bible because knocking on Evangelicals is cool, and most people don't bother to actually read the thing the whole way through, or go even further and study it. But there is certainly a reason why the Bible is the most influential book in human history, and why it is still the most read book.

Every book and chapter of the Bible, including the historical books (I assume you mean, Samuel, Kings, Chronicles and the like). Though admittedly, these are much more difficult to grasp as they require much more insight to render intelligibly (assuming that you do not read them literally).

It is sort of sad that Evangelicals get so much press nowadays that the so called "historical parts" of the Bible are ignored, or that any of the Bible is ignored, because those "wackos" like Sarah Palin say stupid stuff about them.

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:51 PM, Rook said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:43 PM, IRARI said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:40 PM, Rook said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:38 PM, IRARI said:

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:37 PM, Rook said:

It basically goes like this. I read teh Bible once, and a few wikipedia pages on some other religions. And I am basically smarter than 2000 years of tradition and men who have devoted their entire lives to teh subject. Word.

 

honestly i am on my second cover-to-cover reading of the bible, about 175 pages to go, and it's done more for me than a lot of other books i've read

 

In what way?

 

i'm reading the king james version and i find the linguistics of it appealing, and i find the non-historical parts of the bible profound and inspirational

 

Well, the KJV is most certainly the definitive poetic of Biblical language. However, the translation is unfortunately terrible. Though, for someone interested more in literature than an actual understanding of the intent of the author, it is hard to find a translation more beautiful than the James.

 

I know it is fashionable now to make fun of the Bible because knocking on Evangelicals is cool, and most people don't bother to actually read the thing the whole way through, or go even further and study it. But there is certainly a reason why the Bible is the most influential book in human history, and why it is still the most read book.

 

Every book and chapter of the Bible, including the historical books (I assume you mean, Samuel, Kings, Chronicles and the like). Though admittedly, these are much more difficult to grasp as they require much more insight to render intelligibly (assuming that you do not read them literally).

 

It is sort of sad that Evangelicals get so much press nowadays that the so called "historical parts" of the Bible are ignored, or that any of the Bible is ignored, because those "wackos" like Sarah Palin say stupid stuff about them.

i don't skip anything when reading the bible, i read all the historical passages and entire books

i would be interested to know what you think the most faithful translation of the bible is, Rook

i was even considering learning biblical hebrew and greek so i could understand better, though that may be misguided

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:54 PM, IRARI said:

 

i don't skip anything when reading the bible, i read all the historical passages and entire books

i would be interested to know what you think the most faithful translation of the bible is, Rook

i was even considering learning biblical hebrew and greek so i could understand better, though that may be misguided

Hebrew would help. Greek would only help here and there. The actual texts of the New Testament are relatively consistent. Hence, the translations are relatively consistent. Of course, learning Ancient Greek is always helpful since you can then read Aristotle in the original Greek.

The Old Testament is a different story. For example, in the Pentateuch (the first five books) there is much ado about "sin". The people are "sinners" and must make sacrifices and offerings for their "sins". The Hebrew word used in the Pentateuch is "het" which means, "to miss the mark". So if I pointed a gun at you and missed, I would have sinned. So in the Pentateuch, being a "sinner" or being "unclean" doesn't necessarily have a moral connotation. It wasn't until later that the Hebrews gained a fuller understanding of true wisdom and morality (look to the wisdom books and prophets. Especially Proverbs, Wisdom, and Isaiah). So the point is, many people read the Pentateuch and see that Moses calls a woman who goes through childbirth "unclean" and needs to make sin offerings and go through purification and the reader is appalled that any society would call childbirth a "sin" (because it clearly isn't). This can all be understood just fine without being able to read Hebrew, but Hebrew certainly helps. Hebrew is difficult, and my understanding of it is admittedly poor. But even the small bit I know helps me in many situations. More so with explaining passages to others than understanding the passages myself actually.

In my view, it is always best when reading a translated work to use more than one translation. I try to find one that makes a very literal translation, and another that makes an attempt to convey what the author means, not what he says. As far as I can tell, the Ignatius Bible, otherwise known as the RSV (revised standard version) does a commendable job of producing a more literal translation. While the New American Bible does the best job of providing a translation that is more understandable, though less literal. Plus, most New American Bibles have little notes when there is a translation issue. When I am looking to dive into a certain passage, I always use the NAB because I believe the translation is less ambiguous and is the closest that you can get to the original author's meaning in English. These translations will never be contradictory, but having two always allows you to use one to help shed light on the other.

  On 1/6/2010 at 2:37 PM, Rook said:

It basically goes like this. I read teh Bible once, and a few wikipedia pages on some other religions. And I am basically smarter than 2000 years of tradition and men who have devoted their entire lives to teh subject. Word.

dude i have heard that there are some even older religions. You should probably be scared - you're surely worshiping the wrong wizard.

I read the oxford bible cover to cover once. all the footnotes and stuff kept ruining the suspense.

You can read Genesis and Exodus first, but I wouldn't recommend reading the whole thing cover to cover to get the most from it. The key to understanding much of the OT, and what parts apply to you, are in the NT. I would start with the gospels, maybe Matthew, Mark or Luke first (one, two or all), and then definitely John. Whenever it says that Jesus fulfilled something in the OT, or He refers to something written in the OT, jot it down. You may want to cross reference those passages as you go, either by checking the footnotes or just typing/copying the passage into a search window. I use biblegateway.com. After the gospels read Acts, and then Romans and Hebrews. Romans and Hebrews will give you a lot of foundation going into the rest of the OT, particularly in relation to the sacrifice and ceremonial laws. See, if you read Leviticus first, you are going to get to the dietary laws and think oh, I can't eat pork and shellfish. While scavenger meats aren't all that great for you, there is no longer clean and unclean prohibition as pointed out in Romans, Acts, and other places in the NT. Again, as you read Romans & Hebrews, make note of the OT references and cross check them. After that you can read the epistles in any order you choose. If you want to read Revelation, and you may very well, just be mindful reading this early on in your walk. If there is any area the devil will try to fowl you up in, it will be regarding prophecy. Constant prayer for proper discernment is key for understanding much of the symbolism in Revelation, and you will certainly want to reference all of this back to the OT. In this case, the OT is the key for understanding Revelation. You do want to read this, however, because while they liked to say the time is at hand even while writing it (and this doesn't negate scriptural authority, because as it says, no one knows the day or the hour, not the angels nor even the Son of Man [He might know by now], but only the Father in Heaven), well the time is now truly at hand. Almost all the signs are in.

Then continue over to the OT. I'd advise reading Psalms and Proverbs first. Then maybe the first 5 if you haven't already. The ones that are mostly historical read as you feel it, and don't feel obligated to read all at once. It is ok to skip back to them. Read Job somewhere in here, then continue on with the prophets. The prophets you will want to cross reference with Revelation, for instance Isaiah and Daniel. Much of this all ties together.

Lastly, I would advise having commentaries and concordances to help with understanding setting and context. There is a wealth of information on the internet, but just be careful because obviously not every site will have good info. Again, biblegateway,com has some good resources right on their site. Also check oneplace.com to hear online sermons and radio shows from various Christian groups and teachers. If you have a question, feel free to ask. If I don't know the answer I will find out where to get it.

It basically goes like this. I read LOTR once, and a few wikipedia pages on some other fantasy epics. And I am basically smarter than 200 years of tradition and men who have devoted their entire lives to teh subject. Word.

  On 1/6/2010 at 6:03 PM, glasse said:

See, if you read Leviticus first, you are going to get to the dietary laws and think oh, I can't eat pork and shellfish. While scavenger meats aren't all that great for you,

did you just dis bacon?

  On 1/6/2010 at 10:50 AM, triachus said:

hey troon where's your avatar from? who made it? whats the name of the drawing?

i would prefer to let your imagination interpret it for you.

i will tell you this... i am currently inspired by birds and how they have been

viewed throughout the past.

oh my god, things like that make me sick. how can people be so hateful?