ATTN: Wire & Generation Kill junkies

  On 4/13/2010 at 5:29 AM, Awepittance said:

John Goodman was channeling some Walter Sobchak in Treme' last night, David Simon must be a Coen Bros fan. He even kind of looked like Walter Sobchak with the dark glasses

What the fuck was with that journalist? "No mister Sobchak I expect you to die"

I hope they're intentionally being funny by having the worst representation of an English person ever..

lol that interview was a bit unrealistically cruel

  On 4/14/2010 at 10:38 PM, Obel said:

  On 4/13/2010 at 5:29 AM, Awepittance said:

John Goodman was channeling some Walter Sobchak in Treme' last night, David Simon must be a Coen Bros fan. He even kind of looked like Walter Sobchak with the dark glasses

 

What the fuck was with that journalist? "No mister Sobchak I expect you to die"

 

I hope they're intentionally being funny by having the worst representation of an English person ever..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBL2Wq5YjSw

  On 4/14/2010 at 10:50 PM, baph said:

  On 4/14/2010 at 10:38 PM, Obel said:

  On 4/13/2010 at 5:29 AM, Awepittance said:

John Goodman was channeling some Walter Sobchak in Treme' last night, David Simon must be a Coen Bros fan. He even kind of looked like Walter Sobchak with the dark glasses

 

What the fuck was with that journalist? "No mister Sobchak I expect you to die"

 

I hope they're intentionally being funny by having the worst representation of an English person ever..

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBL2Wq5YjSw

See now that's funny! But that's because he's actually English and it was a joke on how some Americans think the English are/him taking the piss out of himself

The journalist was just unrealistic and shit as blanket said

Yeah, I wish the full extent of Dominic West's/McNulty's meta-escapades as a fake Englishmun could be posted to youtube. Pretty much the most hilarious thing in the series.

I haven't seen Treme yet, so I dunno about the journalist, but I think in the States there's kind of a trope that journalists from England are huge pricks (unless their cadences/pitch glides are put to soothing effect on CNN).

yeah, i thought the british journalist thing was a bit odd. thats pretty much a spot on representation of the stereoype tho.. this sort of feigned objectivity with heaping doses of arrogance

  On 4/15/2010 at 12:20 AM, Z_B_Z said:

yeah, i thought the british journalist thing was a bit odd. thats pretty much a spot on representation of the stereoype tho.. this sort of feigned objectivity with heaping doses of arrogance

yep, precisely and this goes for i think a lot of European journalists not just British. I was 'trojan horsed' by a French journalist who over phone conversations told me he thought the beheading hoax was hilarious and a 'great commentary' but come to find out that as he starts to actually interview me in person that he had an agenda of making me look very insensitive towards anybody who's had someone die at the hands of terrorism. Feigned objectivity is a PERFECT way to describe it.

edit: but i will say that his coldness was definitely exaggerated,

ive found that after watching treme and revisiting some of the wire, other shows that ive recently been entertained by, say dexter or even breaking bad, come off so shoddy in comparison. the intelligence and dedication to nuance that simon and his team bring are just breathtaking really. i like breaking bad but that shits like a cartoon compared to these shows.

can anyone point me in the direction of a good david simon interview (preferably a video) in which he primarly talks about treme? lots of stuff for the wire but not a whole lot about treme yet i dont think.

well i think you've pin pointed something about David Simon's shows that set them apart from other conventional television show structure

most TV shows aim to get the viewer 'hooked' using arguably transparent and cheap tactics, Lost, Big Love, Dexter, True Blood, Battlestar Galactica, Breaking Bad (probably the least guilty), the X-files have all tried to 'suck' the viewer in by promising or instilling in the viewer that at some point there will be a very satisfying payoff, reveal or climax. Most of the time in these shows just when you think thats going to happen, something else miraculously happens to make you start caring or worrying about a completely different aspect of the story, mostly to take focus off of the underdeveloped writing that goes into an important 'reveal'. Most TV shows use the carrot on a stick technique to get people to keep watching. It bothers me that most dramatic TV shows follow this system. At least the x-files and star trek TNG had 'stand-alone' episodes that didn't require the viewer to watch every single episode. Now it's a rarity for a dramatic/serious TV show to not be one giant continuing soap opera like story. kind of sucks honestly. To me its like they are treating the audience like 5 year olds

i was watching an interview with simon last night and he said pretty much exactly what youre saying here. the wire really works like a novel. each chapter builds on the one before it and then all of the sudden you realize that you have this multifacted, intricate story that makes some incredibly deep comments about america as a society... i think this is why it took a while for me to get into it. you really have to invest the effort to be able to get anything out of the show. i believe hes been quoted as saying "fuck the casual viewer", which in terms of tv is incredibly ballsy and admirable.

on anoher note, aside from keltoi, no one here seems to have seen 'the corner' and imo its just as essential as the wire. i was really moved by it.. just as important as the wire in its own way.

do you know where to find that Simon interview? would love to see it.

i loved the Corner, i thought i was the one who turned on the forum to it's existence since it randomly appeared one day on HBo on demand. maybe not?

it was a little harder for me to get into than the Wire, one because it was significantly more depressing, every character is Bubbles basically. And i recognized a lot of the actors from other things, but it was a great show.

oh shit, mustve missed your post about the corner.

i watched a few, but i believe this is the interview i was thinking of-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2009/aug/29/david-simon-edinburgh-interview-full

his interview with bill moyers is also great-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qulcqNMHVic

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeNc5y7lpYA&feature=channel

  On 4/16/2010 at 11:32 PM, Awepittance said:

well i think you've pin pointed something about David Simon's shows that set them apart from other conventional television show structure

 

most TV shows aim to get the viewer 'hooked' using arguably transparent and cheap tactics, Lost, Big Love, Dexter, True Blood, Battlestar Galactica, Breaking Bad (probably the least guilty), the X-files have all tried to 'suck' the viewer in by promising or instilling in the viewer that at some point there will be a very satisfying payoff, reveal or climax. Most of the time in these shows just when you think thats going to happen, something else miraculously happens to make you start caring or worrying about a completely different aspect of the story, mostly to take focus off of the underdeveloped writing that goes into an important 'reveal'. Most TV shows use the carrot on a stick technique to get people to keep watching. It bothers me that most dramatic TV shows follow this system. At least the x-files and star trek TNG had 'stand-alone' episodes that didn't require the viewer to watch every single episode. Now it's a rarity for a dramatic/serious TV show to not be one giant continuing soap opera like story. kind of sucks honestly. To me its like they are treating the audience like 5 year olds

The Wire has plenty of bullshit plot devises like any show, Omar alone is enough to prove that, then you got Ziggy's storyline, the Greeks, etc... I think it's just the way the characters talked, the setting, the everyday police work, the politicians... that made if feel "more real" than the rest of the shows out there. The main hook on The Wire was the same as any gangsta story, you were always on the edge to see which character would get shot.

  On 4/17/2010 at 6:55 AM, vasio said:

  On 4/16/2010 at 11:32 PM, Awepittance said:

well i think you've pin pointed something about David Simon's shows that set them apart from other conventional television show structure

 

most TV shows aim to get the viewer 'hooked' using arguably transparent and cheap tactics, Lost, Big Love, Dexter, True Blood, Battlestar Galactica, Breaking Bad (probably the least guilty), the X-files have all tried to 'suck' the viewer in by promising or instilling in the viewer that at some point there will be a very satisfying payoff, reveal or climax. Most of the time in these shows just when you think thats going to happen, something else miraculously happens to make you start caring or worrying about a completely different aspect of the story, mostly to take focus off of the underdeveloped writing that goes into an important 'reveal'. Most TV shows use the carrot on a stick technique to get people to keep watching. It bothers me that most dramatic TV shows follow this system. At least the x-files and star trek TNG had 'stand-alone' episodes that didn't require the viewer to watch every single episode. Now it's a rarity for a dramatic/serious TV show to not be one giant continuing soap opera like story. kind of sucks honestly. To me its like they are treating the audience like 5 year olds

 

 

The Wire has plenty of bullshit plot devises like any show, Omar alone is enough to prove that, then you got Ziggy's storyline, the Greeks, etc... I think it's just the way the characters talked, the setting, the everyday police work, the politicians... that made if feel "more real" than the rest of the shows out there. The main hook on The Wire was the same as any gangsta story, you were always on the edge to see which character would get shot.

as far as the character omar is concerned, i believe hes based on a real person, or a composite of real people. i may be wrong about that tho. no ones saying the wire doesnt use plot devices, but as a whole id say the show is less tranparently manipulative than others. i also feel like youre downplaying the authenticity of the show just to prove a point.

check out some of those interviews with simon that i posted. id be curious to know what you think of them

also, at least give it credit for its ambition.

  On 4/17/2010 at 7:09 AM, Z_B_Z said:

 

as far as the character omar is concerned, i believe hes based on a real person, or a composite of real people. i may be wrong about that tho. no ones saying the wire doesnt use plot devices, but as a whole id say the show is less tranparently manipulative than others. i also feel like youre downplaying the authenticity of the show just to prove a point.

 

check out some of those interviews with simon that i posted. id be curious to know what you think of them

 

also, at least give it credit for its ambition.

**spoilers**

I've watched the whole show around 4 times over the years and I watched it for the first time while it was still on, I do give credit where it's due and I do get what you guys are saying, but after the second viewing the flaws and cheap plots (Marlo c'mon!!!) start to stick out. Season 5 specially really dropped the ball, even the most rabid fanboy has to admit that, just look at Lester, he pulled some textbook magical negro on that season, Omar spiderman jump (even if the real OG says it happened for real)...

Omar was based on a real person (that guy with Omar in the car on the last season before he made the spiderman jump was him) but it wasn't completely factual, same for Stringer Bell which was based on two drug lords. All shows have their flaws and The Wire isn't no where near flawless, I still find it a great show and even after the series finale I get the feeling that these characters are still leaving their lives but without the cameras showing them on TV.

I've seen that interview, not much to comment about it, I do appreciate that he was the first guy to point out how "statics" play in our society, even in Europe unfortunately, I also like that they showed bureaucracy in the show, don't care about his views on socialism.

Statics = Statistics

im making my way through the show for the second time. so far im getting more out of it than i did the first time around.. but i suppose its possible that some of the shows supposed flaws might be become more apparent as i watch.. in any case, thanks or your thoughts. theyre much appreciated.

anyone see the new episode? i thought it was great but im starting to wish i could just watch 4 or 5 episodes in row. these gaps dont cater well to whats already a slow developing show.. not saying the pace is a bad thing but i think i might get more out of it if i could just watch a bunch of them in a row..

yeah i feel that, the 2nd episode was good but it's a slooooow burn

That's the trade off with David Simon's shows, one reason why The Wire only got popular later on was because of the DVD's, people could just watch them all in a row, waiting for the next weeks episodes really gives a totally different experience to the shows. After I'm done with The Pacific I'm jumping on Treme, hopefully by then there will be a good number of episodes online.

caught a little bit of the Pacific, episode 5 battle scene was fucking intense. far better in my opinion than any recreated WWII battle footage ive seen before.

I think I like Treme better than The Wire......

  On 4/19/2010 at 9:43 PM, Awepittance said:

the Pacific, fucking intense. probably better than any recreated WWII battle footage ive seen before.

agreed

  On 5/3/2010 at 5:18 PM, Dpek said:

I think I like Treme better than The Wire......

eh Treme is really good but it definitely has had some really mediocre dialogue writing moments already, it can get cheesy, this is a great show but I don't think its gonna be heralded as a classic flawless series

Hmm yes, you are right.... But I still love the whole feeling of the series: music, characters, music again.... The Wire is some fine shit, I thought it was my favorite show until - Treme came. :) Music is the key I think.

enjoying treme so far but im reserving final judgement until ive finished the season.