Inception - Chris Nolan + Leo DiCaprio = best movie of the summer?

  On 7/18/2010 at 6:50 PM, Higgins VanHiggins said:

  On 7/18/2010 at 6:44 PM, Alcofribas said:

  On 7/18/2010 at 5:53 PM, Higgins VanHiggins said:

 

I really haven't seen anything this brave and intelligent in the cinema for some time, and like Gary C, this might be my film of the decade.

 

 

would you expand upon why you think this film is brave? i don't get that.

 

The fact that it got made.

 

Hollywood falls back on sequels and remakes far too often now, and it rarely takes a chance on anything like Inception anymore.

that said, they did put to use the combo of a director that just did one of the most successful movies of all time, with the lead actor from the most successful movie of all time, so you know, i'm just sayin'.

Whilst watching this today I could help but be reminded of this sketch -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NHjYhaQWvQ

  On 7/18/2010 at 7:06 PM, Coalbucket PI said:

  On 7/18/2010 at 5:53 PM, Higgins VanHiggins said:

  On 7/17/2010 at 8:39 PM, Benedict Cumberbatch said:

question:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

why did leo have to convince his wife to put her head on the tracks? did she think limbo was real? he span her totom to convince her it wasn't real but they built that world together so she knew it was dream. she was in denial?

 

and how long were they lying on the living room floor whilst they were in limbo? i know dream time is longer but didnt they have children/family etc?

 

 

 

 

Answers to your question in the spoiler tag.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Basically, Cobb tricked Mal into believing that the world that they had created in limbo was real. That's why Cobb is convinced that the inception into Robert Fischer Jr.'s mind will work, as he used inception to pull the wool of Mal's eyes; I presume he wanted to see if were indeed possible. With this deception in place he then had to lure her out again by convincing her that the limbo world wasn't real.

 

It was then, of course, that he discovered that once they'd woken up that she started to believe that they real world was a sham, and that limbo was real.

 

 

 

 

Disagreeing with your answer in spoiler tag

 

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I'm pretty sure Cobb said that when he first tried inception it was to plant the idea that their dream world wasn't real so she would wake up back to reality, I don't think he did it to get her into the dream world in the first place. I understood it that Mal got caught up in some gnarly subconscious shit that was making her lose it and thats why he wanted to get her out. The house she grew up in was there and when the girl asked Cobb if Mal would be in there he said no and it sort of implied to me that Mal had brought some childhood trauma into the dream, or something, I'm probably wrong.

 

 

  On 7/18/2010 at 7:24 PM, Gary C said:

  On 7/18/2010 at 7:06 PM, Coalbucket PI said:

  On 7/18/2010 at 5:53 PM, Higgins VanHiggins said:

  On 7/17/2010 at 8:39 PM, Benedict Cumberbatch said:

question:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

why did leo have to convince his wife to put her head on the tracks? did she think limbo was real? he span her totom to convince her it wasn't real but they built that world together so she knew it was dream. she was in denial?

 

and how long were they lying on the living room floor whilst they were in limbo? i know dream time is longer but didnt they have children/family etc?

 

 

 

 

Answers to your question in the spoiler tag.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Basically, Cobb tricked Mal into believing that the world that they had created in limbo was real. That's why Cobb is convinced that the inception into Robert Fischer Jr.'s mind will work, as he used inception to pull the wool of Mal's eyes; I presume he wanted to see if were indeed possible. With this deception in place he then had to lure her out again by convincing her that the limbo world wasn't real.

 

It was then, of course, that he discovered that once they'd woken up that she started to believe that they real world was a sham, and that limbo was real.

 

 

 

 

Disagreeing with your answer in spoiler tag

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I'm pretty sure Cobb said that when he first tried inception it was to plant the idea that their dream world wasn't real so she would wake up back to reality, I don't think he did it to get her into the dream world in the first place. I understood it that Mal got caught up in some gnarly subconscious shit that was making her lose it and thats why he wanted to get her out. The house she grew up in was there and when the girl asked Cobb if Mal would be in there he said no and it sort of implied to me that Mal had brought some childhood trauma into the dream, or something, I'm probably wrong.

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Exactly how I understood it too. I think having spent so much time in limbo, and with her own demons chasing her, is supposed to have affected her judgement of what was real.

 

Cobb explains that they were exploring the levels, going into dreams inside dreams, but didn't fully understand how time would work that far down. They became trapped for decades in a world they controlled.

 

During so many levels and so much time in the dreamworld Mal began to believe that it was real. She locked her token (her method of determining what was real) in a safe in her childhood home.

I think this is where the idea stems that tokens have to be very personal items that only yourself can ever touch.

It must have been that her token stirred dark memories of her past, and having spent decades in a dream, she ultimately wanted to keep it locked.

 

So anyway, Cobb had to plant the idea back into her head that she wasn't in reality, and then kill themselves to finally leave. Unfortunately the idea manifested itself in reality too and she could never accept that anything was real.

 

Or for your last part

i just have to say - this looks really fucking good!

Most disappointing movie I've seen in the theater in some time. What a mess

hell of a film, i loved it. first film by nolan that actually resonated with me

Awesome. I wanted to re-watch it the moment it ended.

I think I might re-watch it, my girlfriend's said she wants to, but I feel quite happy at the moment.

I'm confident that I've got everything that I was supposed to get. There are no questions left for me that can be answered by watching it again. I reeled off my ideas on the way home from the cinema and am hoping that some discussion on here (when you've all seen it) might help form a definitive solution.

It might be interesting to see it again and not feel like I have to analyse it as I go. But it is really long and I know it'll feel too long when I watch it again. Watching The Dark Knight for a second time in the cinema kind of ruined it for me a little.

As Hitchcock famously stated:

  Quote

The length of a film should be directly related to the endurance of the human bladder

  On 7/18/2010 at 10:12 PM, Ascdi said:

Most disappointing movie I've seen in the theater in some time. What a mess

Wow, really?

  On 7/18/2010 at 7:24 PM, Gary C said:

  On 7/18/2010 at 7:06 PM, Coalbucket PI said:

  On 7/18/2010 at 5:53 PM, Higgins VanHiggins said:

  On 7/17/2010 at 8:39 PM, Benedict Cumberbatch said:

question:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

why did leo have to convince his wife to put her head on the tracks? did she think limbo was real? he span her totom to convince her it wasn't real but they built that world together so she knew it was dream. she was in denial?

 

and how long were they lying on the living room floor whilst they were in limbo? i know dream time is longer but didnt they have children/family etc?

 

 

 

 

Answers to your question in the spoiler tag.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Basically, Cobb tricked Mal into believing that the world that they had created in limbo was real. That's why Cobb is convinced that the inception into Robert Fischer Jr.'s mind will work, as he used inception to pull the wool of Mal's eyes; I presume he wanted to see if were indeed possible. With this deception in place he then had to lure her out again by convincing her that the limbo world wasn't real.

 

It was then, of course, that he discovered that once they'd woken up that she started to believe that they real world was a sham, and that limbo was real.

 

 

 

 

Disagreeing with your answer in spoiler tag

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I'm pretty sure Cobb said that when he first tried inception it was to plant the idea that their dream world wasn't real so she would wake up back to reality, I don't think he did it to get her into the dream world in the first place. I understood it that Mal got caught up in some gnarly subconscious shit that was making her lose it and thats why he wanted to get her out. The house she grew up in was there and when the girl asked Cobb if Mal would be in there he said no and it sort of implied to me that Mal had brought some childhood trauma into the dream, or something, I'm probably wrong.

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Exactly how I understood it too. I think having spent so much time in limbo, and with her own demons chasing her, is supposed to have affected her judgement of what was real.

 

Cobb explains that they were exploring the levels, going into dreams inside dreams, but didn't fully understand how time would work that far down. They became trapped for decades in a world they controlled.

 

During so many levels and so much time in the dreamworld Mal began to believe that it was real. She locked her token (her method of determining what was real) in a safe in her childhood home.

I think this is where the idea stems that tokens have to be very personal items that only yourself can ever touch.

It must have been that her token stirred dark memories of her past, and having spent decades in a dream, she ultimately wanted to keep it locked.

 

So anyway, Cobb had to plant the idea back into her head that she wasn't in reality, and then kill themselves to finally leave. Unfortunately the idea manifested itself in reality too and she could never accept that anything was real.

 

yeah i agree with everyone after the first reply. man this post is hard to deciper. a soiler inside a quote inside a quote inside a quote inside a quote. wrapped in an enigma.

and as for my second question. they could have been laying on the floor for mere hours.

so one thing i want to mention is the marketing campaign. it had me worried. i read somewhere "avoid reviews. avoid spoilers" etc. so i did. my wife also read that and you probably did too... imagine if you made a shitty film and then managed to get that message out there? you could make your money back opening weekend before word of mouth kept people away. i don't even remember where i read to avoid reviews so it was most likley planted in my subconcious by leonardo dicraprio.

I've wroted a review actually.

I don't think I was ever told to avoid reviews. I just looked at the synopsis of the film, watched the trailer, and knew I didn't want to have my opinion sullied before I saw it.

I did the same thing before The Dark Knight too. Nolan has really managed to reach us in recent years and it's a great thing.

  On 7/18/2010 at 7:10 PM, Gary C said:

My girlfriend wants to watch it again already, which is pretty high praise because she's not exactly got a great taste in films and I thought she might have trouble following along with something this cerebral. Not saying she's stupid, but I don't think she thinks as deeply about sci-fi matters as me, or has read enough serious literature.

I haven't given her Synecdoche to watch yet, but she might get a kick from that if she can follow it deep enough.

 

Anyway. I too have some ideas that I wanted to discuss. I didn't want to put them in here and ruin it for anyone that hasn't seen it, but I really want some feedback.

 

So they're in the spoiler. SERIOUSLY: SPOILERS

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So as the film ends we're not given a definite answer as to whether Cobb is in reality or not.

 

If he is, that's fine. But if he's not; at what point did he get start dreaming?

 

After testing the sedatives in India he goes to the bathroom to splash water on his face after another frightening encounter with Mal. He spins his token, but is interrupted by Saito and he never sees whether it topples or not.

So maybe for the rest of the film he's actually been lying there in that basement along with all the other 'sleepers'. Maybe he'll lay there for the rest of his life.

 

But who decided to do this for him? Who decided to trick him into a happy ending?

 

Perhaps his father, Michael Caine? He is the only character that should in theory know the true events of Cobb's past and have the emotional drive to help him. He also brings Ariadne to him, who discovers Cobb's secrets.

In fact, if the father has tricked Cobb into the ending it makes the final heist plot incredibly clever.

In order to make Cobb believe that it is possible to go back home he's given an incredible task, and he, like Robert Fischer Jr, unlocks the key to his own safe in the deepest parts of his mind.

 

That's all well and good as an explanation.

 

But then where does Saito come in?

 

He offers the deal to Cobb before the India scene. So with Cobb in the Indian basement Saito's task is never completed? Why would he agree to this? He is established as having immense power, so why help out in the plot to save this guy that just tried to steal secrets from him?

 

The only answer to this idea is that Saito is just an actor for the elaborate plot to trick Cobb. But then the whole film begins to fall apart as we must believe something we have no evidence for; that the whole Saito heist in the first part of the film is just a set-up too.

 

It therefore must be more likely that the film ends in reality.

 

 

and when can we stop using spoilers?

and btw it totem not token. i believe.

  On 7/18/2010 at 11:17 PM, Benedict Cumberbatch said:

  On 7/18/2010 at 7:10 PM, Gary C said:

My girlfriend wants to watch it again already, which is pretty high praise because she's not exactly got a great taste in films and I thought she might have trouble following along with something this cerebral. Not saying she's stupid, but I don't think she thinks as deeply about sci-fi matters as me, or has read enough serious literature.

I haven't given her Synecdoche to watch yet, but she might get a kick from that if she can follow it deep enough.

 

Anyway. I too have some ideas that I wanted to discuss. I didn't want to put them in here and ruin it for anyone that hasn't seen it, but I really want some feedback.

 

So they're in the spoiler. SERIOUSLY: SPOILERS

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So as the film ends we're not given a definite answer as to whether Cobb is in reality or not.

 

If he is, that's fine. But if he's not; at what point did he get start dreaming?

 

After testing the sedatives in India he goes to the bathroom to splash water on his face after another frightening encounter with Mal. He spins his token, but is interrupted by Saito and he never sees whether it topples or not.

So maybe for the rest of the film he's actually been lying there in that basement along with all the other 'sleepers'. Maybe he'll lay there for the rest of his life.

 

But who decided to do this for him? Who decided to trick him into a happy ending?

 

Perhaps his father, Michael Caine? He is the only character that should in theory know the true events of Cobb's past and have the emotional drive to help him. He also brings Ariadne to him, who discovers Cobb's secrets.

In fact, if the father has tricked Cobb into the ending it makes the final heist plot incredibly clever.

In order to make Cobb believe that it is possible to go back home he's given an incredible task, and he, like Robert Fischer Jr, unlocks the key to his own safe in the deepest parts of his mind.

 

That's all well and good as an explanation.

 

But then where does Saito come in?

 

He offers the deal to Cobb before the India scene. So with Cobb in the Indian basement Saito's task is never completed? Why would he agree to this? He is established as having immense power, so why help out in the plot to save this guy that just tried to steal secrets from him?

 

The only answer to this idea is that Saito is just an actor for the elaborate plot to trick Cobb. But then the whole film begins to fall apart as we must believe something we have no evidence for; that the whole Saito heist in the first part of the film is just a set-up too.

 

It therefore must be more likely that the film ends in reality.

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

i took from the ending that he did not make it out of limbo. his kids were still the same age and possibly wearing the same clothes. BUT i don't think this means as you say that he started dreaming at a different time to the time we are shown. sure the whole thing could be a dream but that would be a bit redundant. personally i think he started dreaming on the plane and is happily stuck there. in that way i definitely see comparisons with shutter island. in both he chooses to remain ignorantly happy. maybe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

and when can we stop using spoilers?

 

 

and btw it totem not token. i believe.

Actually a really good point. It didn't occur to me that the children were the same age. Hmm...

  On 7/18/2010 at 11:22 PM, Gary C said:

  On 7/18/2010 at 11:17 PM, Benedict Cumberbatch said:

  On 7/18/2010 at 7:10 PM, Gary C said:

My girlfriend wants to watch it again already, which is pretty high praise because she's not exactly got a great taste in films and I thought she might have trouble following along with something this cerebral. Not saying she's stupid, but I don't think she thinks as deeply about sci-fi matters as me, or has read enough serious literature.

I haven't given her Synecdoche to watch yet, but she might get a kick from that if she can follow it deep enough.

 

Anyway. I too have some ideas that I wanted to discuss. I didn't want to put them in here and ruin it for anyone that hasn't seen it, but I really want some feedback.

 

So they're in the spoiler. SERIOUSLY: SPOILERS

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So as the film ends we're not given a definite answer as to whether Cobb is in reality or not.

 

If he is, that's fine. But if he's not; at what point did he get start dreaming?

 

After testing the sedatives in India he goes to the bathroom to splash water on his face after another frightening encounter with Mal. He spins his token, but is interrupted by Saito and he never sees whether it topples or not.

So maybe for the rest of the film he's actually been lying there in that basement along with all the other 'sleepers'. Maybe he'll lay there for the rest of his life.

 

But who decided to do this for him? Who decided to trick him into a happy ending?

 

Perhaps his father, Michael Caine? He is the only character that should in theory know the true events of Cobb's past and have the emotional drive to help him. He also brings Ariadne to him, who discovers Cobb's secrets.

In fact, if the father has tricked Cobb into the ending it makes the final heist plot incredibly clever.

In order to make Cobb believe that it is possible to go back home he's given an incredible task, and he, like Robert Fischer Jr, unlocks the key to his own safe in the deepest parts of his mind.

 

That's all well and good as an explanation.

 

But then where does Saito come in?

 

He offers the deal to Cobb before the India scene. So with Cobb in the Indian basement Saito's task is never completed? Why would he agree to this? He is established as having immense power, so why help out in the plot to save this guy that just tried to steal secrets from him?

 

The only answer to this idea is that Saito is just an actor for the elaborate plot to trick Cobb. But then the whole film begins to fall apart as we must believe something we have no evidence for; that the whole Saito heist in the first part of the film is just a set-up too.

 

It therefore must be more likely that the film ends in reality.

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

i took from the ending that he did not make it out of limbo. his kids were still the same age and possibly wearing the same clothes. BUT i don't think this means as you say that he started dreaming at a different time to the time we are shown. sure the whole thing could be a dream but that would be a bit redundant. personally i think he started dreaming on the plane and is happily stuck there. in that way i definitely see comparisons with shutter island. in both he chooses to remain ignorantly happy. maybe.

 

 

 

 

 

 

and when can we stop using spoilers?

 

 

and btw it totem not token. i believe.

 

Actually a really good point. I didn't occur to me that the children were the same age. Hmm...

my wife is crazy on this movie. she tells me that there are 2 sets of kids in the credits. the ones on the phone sounded alot older than the ones at the end.

plz dont stop using spoilers

I never read reviews before watching a film anyway, they either give away what happens, or try so hard not to say what happens that they are horribly vague, or draw your attention to flaws you wouldn't have been bothered by. I got excited about this because of Nolan always making great films and DiCaprio is a great actor and the trailer looked good.

  On 7/18/2010 at 7:10 PM, Gary C said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So as the film ends we're not given a definite answer as to whether Cobb is in reality or not.

 

If he is, that's fine. But if he's not; at what point did he get start dreaming?

 

(...)

 

It therefore must be more likely that the film ends in reality.

 

 

I think the film ends in reality too, but I don't even think that's important. And with that, I bring up a point my girlfriend made.

The ending is an almost Magritte-esque, "ceci n'est pas une pipe" kind of reveal. The spinning top not only suggests Leonardo DiCaprio might still be in a dream, but more importantly, reveals that the film (and film in general) exists in its own "dreamworld" of fiction. We, as the audience, then have to acknowledge its fiction in our reality, much like Cobb and the others acknowledge the dream world to be a fiction in their reality. I guess it's kind of like discreetly breaking the fourth wall.

And I find that interpretation of the ending to be much more interesting than the "was he dreaming the whole time" debate.

  On 7/18/2010 at 11:31 PM, KY said:

  On 7/18/2010 at 7:10 PM, Gary C said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

So as the film ends we're not given a definite answer as to whether Cobb is in reality or not.

 

If he is, that's fine. But if he's not; at what point did he get start dreaming?

 

(...)

 

It therefore must be more likely that the film ends in reality.

 

 

 

I think the film ends in reality too, but I don't even think that's important. And with that, I bring up a point my girlfriend made.

 

The ending is an almost Magritte-esque, "ceci n'est pas une pipe" kind of reveal. The spinning top not only suggests Leonardo DiCaprio might still be in a dream, but more importantly, reveals that the film (and film in general) exists in its own "dreamworld" of fiction. We, as the audience, then have to acknowledge its fiction in our reality, much like Cobb and the others acknowledge the dream world to be a fiction in their reality. I guess it's kind of like discreetly breaking the fourth wall.

 

And I find that interpretation of the ending to be much more interesting than the "was he dreaming the whole time" debate.

Interesting. It most certainly can be interpreted as a division between the films idea of reality and our own. Good point.

I did have some ideas regarding Buddhism actually, or at least Eastern spirituality, but I've found it hard to put it into words.

Essentially I can see this film working even without the sci-fi element of the sleep-device. Imagine instead that the characters could enter dreams using meditation (like a Buddhist practice). The film's opening sections take place in Japanese-esque buildings and important parts of the plot occur in India.

The storyline between the father and son also seemed to ring from Japanese mythology.

The fact that America is only ever imagined through a dream could be perceived as a comment on it's lack of Eastern spirituality and it's superficial nature.

omflol

haha

Yeah, I know. I can't put it any way that isn't lame, but that's the idea that I left with.

I liked this movie but it seems like he didn't take full advantage of the dream world. I wanted to see more surreal or fantastic elements like heads with no faces or indiscernible objects. Nolan had the opportunity to go balls-to-the-wall here and it felt like he was holding back, everything was too realistic. The plot was almost overly convoluted and some of the plot devices felt too contrived. Again, it was a good movie, very well constructed but I felt disappointed at the same time.

7/10

i'm kind of feeling what everybody says about the conservative depictions of dreams, but i'm definitely happy the film wasn't too surreal.

if the plot development was secondary to the mood created by the film, that'd be one thing. but christopher nolan's movies always have a very concrete direction in which the plot moves, and given the setting for the film, really excessive surrealism would have made the plot difficult to follow.

then again, it might have warranted even more obsessive rewatching. (as of right now, i really plan on watching it in theaters at least twice more.)

am i the only one that thought the plot was pretty goddamned easy to follow though? i read a review in AM New York that described the plot as too incongruent and muddled. they're way the fuck off base, amirite?