Day jobs

  tht tne said:

  BCM said:

I'm not really a cleaner.

 

tht tne knows the score

graphic designer

I do software consulting. There are some nice cushy gigs here and there doing web pages for lawyers, but the bulk of what I tend to be contracted for is cleaning up people's shit PHP.

PHP written by non-programmers can get pretty scary. PHP written by bad programmers can be much worse. What starts off as a simple, easy script gathers more and more clutter until there are 50k lines of pure chaos, simply because no one was thinking about the long term... just, oh hay, this is easy, let's bash a page out. Kind of like a kitchen junk drawer.

I am somewhat OCD (or aspergers or something). I have a compulsion to make things balance. As a lad, if my left hand brushed something, I would have the extreme urge to brush the right hand along whatever I brushed, in the mirrored spot, to "balance" it out. I've loosened up with age and a lot of weed, but that urge is still buried in there. Messy code drives me bananas, and I will sit there for hours until I have balanced the code out.

It's a weird thing -- it drives me nuts, but that's what makes me good at it.

I also find myself "balancing" out melodies and harmonies... so it certainly plays into music as well.

  On 6/20/2010 at 10:31 PM, Masonic Boom said:

The only thing I find is that I prefer to *listen* to electronic music when I program, because stuff with consistent repetitive beats focuses the mind and the fingers for typing in code. (That said, my boss has banned me from listening to Venetian Snares in the office, because he says it makes me type too violently.)

I am the same way. I was actually trying to explain this to someone a couple days ago -- it's a cerebellum thing. The music gives me a rhythm, which helps me keep my mind focused and in order. And I find music with vocals to be distracting a lot of the time!

  On 6/20/2010 at 9:53 PM, ZoeB said:

Out of curiosity, what day job do you all have? I'm starting to think there might be a link between programmers and IDM artists. I guess it makes sense as the genre is inherently very technology heavy.

I agree -- It's tech-based and full of toys, and the music tends to be more cerebral than most. Lots of patterns/short term memory use; pushes the same brain buttons.

Here are some other reasons it works:

1. There's plenty of software to pirate, and computer people may even go so far as to have a hobby of pirating things (I'll often pirate VSTs on some rainy day). I wager there are people that got into it simply through a combination of happenstance and boredom.

2. Software-based music making is much more inviting to nerds than guitars. When I started on all this, I couldn't bang a tambourine on time with a beat (yes, I can now). Electronic music lets you dodge that issue -- another barrier to entry.

3. MOST IMPORTANT -- When I get into working on code, reality atrophies. I will sit there for hours before snapping out of it, and realize my bladder is about to burst, my stomach is grumbling, and my mouth tastes like crap. I go into the same state for music-making, as well as building circuits. I actually cherish it; better than drugs for escapism.

  On 6/21/2010 at 11:49 AM, hahathhat said:

3. MOST IMPORTANT -- When I get into working on code, reality atrophies. I will sit there for hours before snapping out of it, and realize my bladder is about to burst, my stomach is grumbling, and my mouth tastes like crap. I go into the same state for music-making, as well as building circuits. I actually cherish it; better than drugs for escapism.

OMG, +1000.

It's absolutely the same headspace, making music for hours, or untangling lines of code (or mathematical equations) - that kind of state-of-flow trance.

I also have more than a touch of OCD (it's kind of bundled with a lot of the Bipolar symptoms) - I cannot see a piece of code or a spreadsheet or something that I know is wrong, and leave it alone. They give me the unsolveable problems in my IT dept, because they know that I'll figure it out if it takes me all week. Music is exactly the same, I have to do a riff over and over until I get it right. If I feel like something is missing, or not sitting right, or not balanced, I'll spend hours putting it right.

This is why I often ask people things like "do these drums sound right?" because you just lose perspective when you're so focused on it.

(That said, when I was a session player, I'd see people spending 20, 30 takes trying to get a vocal down, and they'd ask the producer "did that sound... sarcastic enough?" and I could just see the producer biting his tongue before hitting the talk back button, muttering, it sounded exactly the same as the previous 29 takes... So there's always a point you have to *stop* yourself.)

dish washer / law student

my actual job title is Client Welfare Manager, I work for a firm of Chartered Surveyors in Fitzrovia, London.

  On 6/21/2010 at 2:48 PM, BCM said:

my actual job title is Client Welfare Manager, I work for a firm of Chartered Surveyors in Fitzrovia, London.

BCM, man, you've sold out to the MAN. I liked you so much better when you were a cleaner. ;-)

I got a letter today saying that the module I applied for needed a certain elective for my entry that I didnt do. But because Im so super awesome cool theyre going to let me in anyway.

So now I'm a Chemical Engineering Student.

  On 6/21/2010 at 11:49 AM, hahathhat said:

I am somewhat OCD (or aspergers or something)... Messy code drives me bananas, and I will sit there for hours until I have balanced the code out.

Oh good, I'm glad it's not just me then... I'm pretty anal about arguably pointless aspects of source code. It drives me nuts when I see whitespace like tabs and spaces at the end of lines or on supposedly blank lines. In all fairness, the latter does have a practical problem: it makes

d}

a lot more destructive in vim than it's meant to be.

  On 6/21/2010 at 11:49 AM, hahathhat said:

I also find myself "balancing" out melodies and harmonies... so it certainly plays into music as well.

I really should stop myself trying to make geometrically pleasing shapes in my music, such as making the arrangement perfectly symmetrical, if it gets in the way of the music actually sounding good. It sounds like maybe you also have to work with letting your quirks work for you rather than against you?

  On 6/21/2010 at 11:49 AM, hahathhat said:

  On 6/20/2010 at 10:31 PM, Masonic Boom said:

The only thing I find is that I prefer to *listen* to electronic music when I program, because stuff with consistent repetitive beats focuses the mind and the fingers for typing in code. (That said, my boss has banned me from listening to Venetian Snares in the office, because he says it makes me type too violently.)

 

I am the same way. I was actually trying to explain this to someone a couple days ago -- it's a cerebellum thing. The music gives me a rhythm, which helps me keep my mind focused and in order. And I find music with vocals to be distracting a lot of the time!

It amazes me that anyone can work while listening to pop music. A while back, a co-worker of mine used to have the radio on all the time, driving me (and I think others in the office too) up the wall with constant adverts and the same three or four overcompressed songs.

I can only work while listening to silence, or ambient music, hence I've got a lot of Brian Eno and Pete Namlook albums. SAW II is indispensable.

(I've occasionally listened to Rushup Edge while working, and hurt my hand from air drumming while listening to Rushup I Bank 12. This is not advisable.)

  On 6/21/2010 at 11:49 AM, hahathhat said:

Software-based music making is much more inviting to nerds than guitars. When I started on all this, I couldn't bang a tambourine on time with a beat (yes, I can now). Electronic music lets you dodge that issue -- another barrier to entry.

That's another good point. I got into music making via tracking, so I guess it was more because it was something cool I could do with my computer rather than because I liked music. In fact, I'm not even sure I did like music until I started mucking around with tracking. Hence I have quite large gaps in my pop music knowledge. (The other day my girlfriend played Hungry Like the Wolf, and I exclaimed "Hey, it's that song with the Jupiter 8 in random arpeggio mode!" because I had no idea what it was actually called. OK, it might be a Jupiter 4...)

  On 6/21/2010 at 11:49 AM, hahathhat said:

MOST IMPORTANT -- When I get into working on code, reality atrophies. I will sit there for hours before snapping out of it, and realize my bladder is about to burst, my stomach is grumbling, and my mouth tastes like crap. I go into the same state for music-making, as well as building circuits. I actually cherish it; better than drugs for escapism.

Yes! This is "the zone", and it's what many people live for. It's why hackers stay up all night, why many make music, and I'm pretty sure for some people it's why they have sex. You completely forget about everything you're worrying about and even your physical surroundings and just properly concentrate on something until it's finished. It's a wonderful thing.

Case management and fucking customer support + lots of papershuffling. I hate my job.

  On 6/21/2010 at 12:08 PM, Masonic Boom said:

(That said, when I was a session player, I'd see people spending 20, 30 takes trying to get a vocal down, and they'd ask the producer "did that sound... sarcastic enough?" and I could just see the producer biting his tongue before hitting the talk back button, muttering, it sounded exactly the same as the previous 29 takes... So there's always a point you have to *stop* yourself.)

That brings up another interesting point: is perfection overemphasised these days? Do people now often forget that perfection isn't the only appealing aesthetic? There's so much talk about things like "analogue warmth" as the ear craves the imperfections of the gear of yesteryear... it sounds like another important aspect for those who want such a sound would be to not go out of your way to play and sing everything perfectly. Not that either approach is right, both aesthetics have their place. I listened to a lot of dub music at work a while back, and it's all the more charming for its imperfections in much the same way the Analords are. Little things like when muting a snippet of the lead vocal, the producer waits just a little too long and there's a fraction of the next syllable echoing around... It's an interesting style, I think.

(Wow, Zoe - I have listened to Hungry Like The Wolf a thousand times and that arpeggiator must have worked its way subliminally into my brain because I've spent my life trying to duplicate that sound, without consciously noticing it was there.)

((That said, it is pretty obvious that there is a ton of Jupiter and Juno all over that album, and that that was hugely influential in my choice of my first synth. I just never noticed it in particular on Hungry Like The Wolf.))

i install windows updates and get paid.

  On 6/21/2010 at 3:57 PM, Masonic Boom said:

(Wow, Zoe - I have listened to Hungry Like The Wolf a thousand times and that arpeggiator must have worked its way subliminally into my brain because I've spent my life trying to duplicate that sound, without consciously noticing it was there.)

You use Reason, right? RPG8, random mode, play a chord. :D

  On 6/21/2010 at 4:00 PM, ZoeB said:

  On 6/21/2010 at 3:57 PM, Masonic Boom said:

(Wow, Zoe - I have listened to Hungry Like The Wolf a thousand times and that arpeggiator must have worked its way subliminally into my brain because I've spent my life trying to duplicate that sound, without consciously noticing it was there.)

 

You use Reason, right? RPG8, random mode, play a chord. :D

Only Reason 4 and above, I'm still on 3. There's a waveform mod for it in Maelstrom, which I use all. the. time. Like I said on another thread, I had to ban myself from wub for a while because I overuse it.

I really like your point on perfection vs. imperfection in production - but that's a topic that could really use its own thread. Can you start one or should I just copy/paste that post?

developer of the web

it takes a special kind of geek to really get any enjoyment out of refactoring code. i am that kind of geek.

  On 6/21/2010 at 4:03 PM, Masonic Boom said:

Only Reason 4 and above, I'm still on 3. There's a waveform mod for it in Maelstrom, which I use all. the. time. Like I said on another thread, I had to ban myself from wub for a while because I overuse it.

I'd meant to ask what wub meant outside the context of early Philip K. Dick stories. You might as well wait now, by the way, version 5's coming out soon with its own proper (as in sound generating, not just reproducing) drum machine. (This is finally happening, just as I'm able to afford to buy a TR-808 with money made from making music anyway...)

  On 6/21/2010 at 4:03 PM, Masonic Boom said:

I really like your point on perfection vs. imperfection in production - but that's a topic that could really use its own thread. Can you start one or should I just copy/paste that post?

You go ahead. I'd hate for everyone to think I'm flooding the place with my own vain new threads. :)

"Wub" = the sound approximated if you say "wubwubwubwubwubwub" out loud.

There's many ways to do it, you can do it with an old fashioned tremolo pedal, with very quick stereo pan, with arpeggiator set on a drone, with a square wave LFO, it's just any kind of heavily oscillating sound.

  On 6/21/2010 at 3:46 PM, ZoeB said:

Yes! This is "the zone", and it's what many people live for. It's why hackers stay up all night, why many make music, and I'm pretty sure for some people it's why they have sex. You completely forget about everything you're worrying about and even your physical surroundings and just properly concentrate on something until it's finished. It's a wonderful thing.

Yeah, the zone. I'm still trying to find whatever it is that gets me in the zone. Creatively I mean.

Ugh.

  Masonic Boom said:

  BCM said:

my actual job title is Client Welfare Manager, I work for a firm of Chartered Surveyors in Fitzrovia, London.

 

BCM, man, you've sold out to the MAN. I liked you so much better when you were a cleaner. ;-)

yeah I know it sucks...I'd actually love to be a cleaner or something that's well chilled out, but the money's shit....I need to earn a certain amount just to afford to live in SW London...I guess I've got some kind of career going, but it's not one I particularly want :( ah well, all part of the joys of life...

  On 6/21/2010 at 6:18 PM, BCM said:

I need to earn a certain amount just to afford to live in SW London...

Innit bruv.

  On 6/21/2010 at 6:28 PM, Dan C said:

  On 6/21/2010 at 6:18 PM, BCM said:

I need to earn a certain amount just to afford to live in SW London...

 

Innit bruv.

+1

Structural steel fabricator / designer / estimator / site surveyor / website administrator / cleaner / general dogsbody at the family owned business

currently a barista, but going to take some classes at city college in programming and html. i like to use my mind, and a barista job is pretty much the opposite of that. i think ill be decent at coding etc, as I have dealt with a lot of abstract concepts etc in the digital production/composition realm.

  On 6/21/2010 at 6:44 PM, Kcinsu said:

i think ill be decent at coding etc, as I have dealt with a lot of abstract concepts etc in the digital production/composition realm.

Just make sure to brush up on logic and problem solving. Debugging's a lot like being a detective, except in no way cool.