The Dutch To Reclassify High-Strength Cannabis

  On 10/11/2011 at 8:08 PM, theSun said:

That said, i'm all for regulation of the stuff. psychotic episodes indicate either extremely low tolerance or extremely high dose, but this is the extreme case and usually due to lack of education.

I've read that it could actually be a combination of genetics and age (developing brains shouldn't do any drugs really, including alcohol) A small portion of the population who have demonstrably reacted adversely to THC have a certain configuration of genes that are absent in the majority of the population and the charts are pretty distinct.

http://schizophreniabulletin.oxfordjournals.org/content/34/6/1111/F1.expansion.html

original longass article, snipped summary:

  Quote

Only a small proportion of those who use cannabis develop psychosis, but for these unfortunate individuals, cannabis appears to have a dramatically detrimental impact on their mental health. Genetic as well as environmental factors have been shown to underlie this differential sensitivity to cannabis and its active ingredient THC.....multiple variations within multiple genes—rather than one single genetic polymorphism—may set an individual's vulnerability at birth to develop later psychosis. Several environmental factors during the course of development, such as cannabis use and stress, may then impact on these vulnerabilities and reinforce a shift forward on the psychosis continuum toward a lower threshold to experience psychotic symptoms and to ultimately develop clinical psychotic disorder.

look, i'm all for stuff that's rewarding even tho it carries unforseen hazards. stochastics give you a pretty good chance, nawmean? but as in rockclimbing, i wouldn't just trust any sucker to have me on belay. test yer mettle and test it again---THEN carefully decide if you want to go thru with it. take it slow & titrate--even the sub-15% stuff will have you loopy if chronically caned.

Where will the bros go to smoke now that Amsterdam has shut her doors?

bruvs can stay right tah fuck home innit.

Some other country will see their opportunity and grab the weed tourism.

my money's on switzerland. they have the tourism down pat, and are hard at work with legalizing cannabis for some reason.

Will you be able to totally smoke the dankest weed and fuck a whore?

#108 Dan C

• Country:Israel
  

y'all istralian tourists are SO CORRUPTED. traveling out to OTHER PEOPLE's promised lands. can't even fuck a whore properly in their own countries.

  On 10/11/2011 at 7:30 AM, Salvatorin said:

  On 10/11/2011 at 5:03 AM, Adjective said:

  On 10/9/2011 at 2:38 PM, candlestickmaker said:

have you guys ever tried "legal highs"?

 

can't really remember how strong they were in the past, but there's some stuff right now in romania that will wreck your head. 2 - 3 puffs and you're well baked, like after smoking a whole joint by yourself. only lasts for 30 mins to an hour or so.

really really REALLY dangerous shit, i've tried it and it's... wow. NEVER AGAIN (really dubious high)

 

lots of kids (really young, from 13-14 years upwards) smoke it where i live... and i think it's the same thing all over somania. i wonder what will become of them.

 

it's sad, really...

I had a bad experience with a THC analogue earlier this year.

(story)

I had a very similar experience. I found myself in a bad mind and so I stupidly and illogical retreated to my bed and turned off the lights and didn't listen to music. Terrible idea. The tinnitus became deafeningly loud, as if the silence was blowing out my ears. And my heart beat so hard and fast it made my chest feel like it was burning. I actually accepted death as a possibility for awhile.

was your experience also with one of JWH-___ chemicals? If you could describe what you heard some more, I'm curious.

I'd love to try to recreate what I heard one day, I just wouldn't know where to begin. Artifacts from lossy compression are in the same ballpark but not quite close enough. It has been influencing my musical palettes lately though, probably will for a long time.

  On 10/14/2011 at 2:34 AM, Adjective said:

  On 10/11/2011 at 7:30 AM, Salvatorin said:

  On 10/11/2011 at 5:03 AM, Adjective said:

  On 10/9/2011 at 2:38 PM, candlestickmaker said:

have you guys ever tried "legal highs"?

 

can't really remember how strong they were in the past, but there's some stuff right now in romania that will wreck your head. 2 - 3 puffs and you're well baked, like after smoking a whole joint by yourself. only lasts for 30 mins to an hour or so.

really really REALLY dangerous shit, i've tried it and it's... wow. NEVER AGAIN (really dubious high)

 

lots of kids (really young, from 13-14 years upwards) smoke it where i live... and i think it's the same thing all over somania. i wonder what will become of them.

 

it's sad, really...

I had a bad experience with a THC analogue earlier this year.

(story)

I had a very similar experience. I found myself in a bad mind and so I stupidly and illogical retreated to my bed and turned off the lights and didn't listen to music. Terrible idea. The tinnitus became deafeningly loud, as if the silence was blowing out my ears. And my heart beat so hard and fast it made my chest feel like it was burning. I actually accepted death as a possibility for awhile.

was your experience also with one of JWH-___ chemicals? If you could describe what you heard some more, I'm curious.

I'd love to try to recreate what I heard one day, I just wouldn't know where to begin. Artifacts from lossy compression are in the same ballpark but not quite close enough. It has been influencing my musical palettes lately though, probably will for a long time.

It was with JWH-018 but something similar has happened on THC in the past. Within the ringing tinnitus the sound of my heartbeat as well as small whistling and sighing sounds from breathing became very harmonic and cyclical, to the point that a bizarre and disorienting song was forming from the extremely quiet sounds of my body's functions. It had a strange repetitive melody and when I my mind would hallucinate hypnagogic voices singing along with it. It was easy to get lost in that song and have it overwhelm me.

  On 10/14/2011 at 2:46 AM, Salvatorin said:

  On 10/14/2011 at 2:34 AM, Adjective said:

  On 10/11/2011 at 7:30 AM, Salvatorin said:

  On 10/11/2011 at 5:03 AM, Adjective said:

  On 10/9/2011 at 2:38 PM, candlestickmaker said:

have you guys ever tried "legal highs"?

 

can't really remember how strong they were in the past, but there's some stuff right now in romania that will wreck your head. 2 - 3 puffs and you're well baked, like after smoking a whole joint by yourself. only lasts for 30 mins to an hour or so.

really really REALLY dangerous shit, i've tried it and it's... wow. NEVER AGAIN (really dubious high)

 

lots of kids (really young, from 13-14 years upwards) smoke it where i live... and i think it's the same thing all over somania. i wonder what will become of them.

 

it's sad, really...

I had a bad experience with a THC analogue earlier this year.

(story)

I had a very similar experience. I found myself in a bad mind and so I stupidly and illogical retreated to my bed and turned off the lights and didn't listen to music. Terrible idea. The tinnitus became deafeningly loud, as if the silence was blowing out my ears. And my heart beat so hard and fast it made my chest feel like it was burning. I actually accepted death as a possibility for awhile.

was your experience also with one of JWH-___ chemicals? If you could describe what you heard some more, I'm curious.

I'd love to try to recreate what I heard one day, I just wouldn't know where to begin. Artifacts from lossy compression are in the same ballpark but not quite close enough. It has been influencing my musical palettes lately though, probably will for a long time.

It was with JWH-018 but something similar has happened on THC in the past. Within the ringing tinnitus the sound of my heartbeat as well as small whistling and sighing sounds from breathing became very harmonic and cyclical, to the point that a bizarre and disorienting song was forming from the extremely quiet sounds of my body's functions. It had a strange repetitive melody and when I my mind would hallucinate hypnagogic voices singing along with it. It was easy to get lost in that song and have it overwhelm me.

mine also was very musical, but it was consistent other than some drift. i wonder if it's the brain filling in, like it supposedly does in sensory deprivation chambers. i may need to search for some sensory dep. trip reports today

  On 10/11/2011 at 8:08 PM, theSun said:

ingesting anything without limits is stupid. if you know anything about eating weed (which i don't) it's that you can stuff far more thc into your system.

 

not to poke at lumen, but what he did was pretty fucking stupid, especially if he had experience with baked goods. if your body isn't used to having weed for 6 months, then it was stuffed with probably a 1/4 o of really nice stuff....

 

that said, i'm all for regulation of the stuff. psychotic episodes indicate either extremely low tolerance or extremely high dose, but this is the extreme case and usually due to lack of education.

 

i'm still waiting to hear about anyone who has died from weed

 

tried to link some chart but epic fail

I had lots of experience smoking, but that was my first time eating.

Is death really the issue if your psyche caved in on you?

I think the "life vs. psyche destruction" is an interesting issue. I know several people who have been radically changed or damaged by THC related use (weed or hash). I don't know anyone who has died of alcohol, but I suppose others here do - either car wrecks, poisoning, or accidental (like drowning in your own vomit).

I guess which you think is more dangerous depends on the person. Clearly alcohol abuse is a bigger public menace as it has more users. But I think the risk weed has of driving a person nuts should not be downplayed, either. That's why I respect this decision by the Dutch, as it's based on so much firsthand experience of having a culture with widespread cannabis use. The key is proper labeling and education, just as we have with cigarettes and alcohol. And yes, if it's legalized I would highly control the *retail* of edible marijuana products. Doesn't mean you couldn't bake it for yourself.

JWH-018 gave me some pretty crazy closed-eye visuals more than once. it's definitely different to weed.

  On 10/14/2011 at 3:15 AM, lumpenprol said:

I think the "life vs. psyche destruction" is an interesting issue. I know several people who have been radically changed or damaged by THC related use (weed or hash). I don't know anyone who has died of alcohol, but I suppose others here do - either car wrecks, poisoning, or accidental (like drowning in your own vomit).

 

I guess which you think is more dangerous depends on the person. Clearly alcohol abuse is a bigger public menace as it has more users. But I think the risk weed has of driving a person nuts should not be downplayed, either. That's why I respect this decision by the Dutch, as it's based on so much firsthand experience of having a culture with widespread cannabis use. The key is proper labeling and education, just as we have with cigarettes and alcohol. And yes, if it's legalized I would highly control the *retail* of edible marijuana products. Doesn't mean you couldn't bake it for yourself.

The risks of marijuana should not be downplayed, I agree with you. However, it is clear that alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana - marijuana does not increase risk-taking behaviors, it is far less toxic than alcohol, and people do not die from overdosing on marijuana. There are tens of thousands of deaths attributed to alcohol use every year - excluding accidents and homicides. Marijuana does not increase violent tendencies, nor does it cause liver damage. It is not physically addictive in the same way that alcohol is (if at all), and there are no long-term physical withdrawal symptoms from using marijuana.

  On 10/14/2011 at 3:42 AM, kaini said:

JWH-018 gave me some pretty crazy closed-eye visuals more than once. it's definitely different to weed.

yes it sure is, id say it's almost like a mixture of really tactile hallucinatory weed and mild salvia effects. The more of it i smoke the more immediately i feel im being sucked into some kind of void, which only happens to me on pot if i am reallyr eally stoned

This doesn't sound very fun.

  On 10/14/2011 at 3:57 AM, luke viia said:

The risks of marijuana should not be downplayed, I agree with you. However, it is clear that alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana - marijuana does not increase risk-taking behaviors, it is far less toxic than alcohol, and people do not die from overdosing on marijuana. There are tens of thousands of deaths attributed to alcohol use every year - excluding accidents and homicides. Marijuana does not increase violent tendencies, nor does it cause liver damage. It is not physically addictive in the same way that alcohol is (if at all), and there are no long-term physical withdrawal symptoms from using marijuana.

as said, I think "cause death" is misleading if it's your only criteria for "seriousness". Have you ever heard of someone going psychotic or having a nervous breakdown on alcohol, and having lasting mental health issues? No, it's impossible. But of course people get in car crashes, get in fist fights, and occasionally choke on their own vomit, so there is that...I think part of the reason that alcohol is seen as such a wide menace, is simply because it's legal and ubiquitous. If you turned the tables and made cannabis as widespread and available as alcohol, I think you'd suddenly get a much better picture of the risks of weed/hash use. Which the Dutch have done. Which is my point. I don't think we're really speaking at cross-purposes, but I do think it's interesting that the pro legalization movement has, I think, actually tilted the tables back the other way, where people see weed as just harmless fun. Which it mostly is, but there's a danger zone that has actually increased over time due to the increase in potency, that I think few people acknowledge, and many don't know about.

  On 10/14/2011 at 9:56 AM, lumpenprol said:

  On 10/14/2011 at 3:57 AM, luke viia said:

The risks of marijuana should not be downplayed, I agree with you. However, it is clear that alcohol is far more dangerous than marijuana - marijuana does not increase risk-taking behaviors, it is far less toxic than alcohol, and people do not die from overdosing on marijuana. There are tens of thousands of deaths attributed to alcohol use every year - excluding accidents and homicides. Marijuana does not increase violent tendencies, nor does it cause liver damage. It is not physically addictive in the same way that alcohol is (if at all), and there are no long-term physical withdrawal symptoms from using marijuana.

as said, I think "cause death" is misleading if it's your only criteria for "seriousness". Have you ever heard of someone going psychotic or having a nervous breakdown on alcohol, and having lasting mental health issues? No, it's impossible. But of course people get in car crashes, get in fist fights, and occasionally choke on their own vomit, so there is that...I think part of the reason that alcohol is seen as such a wide menace, is simply because it's legal and ubiquitous. If you turned the tables and made cannabis as widespread and available as alcohol, I think you'd suddenly get a much better picture of the risks of weed/hash use. Which the Dutch have done. Which is my point. I don't think we're really speaking at cross-purposes, but I do think it's interesting that the pro legalization movement has, I think, actually tilted the tables back the other way, where people see weed as just harmless fun. Which it mostly is, but there's a danger zone that has actually increased over time due to the increase in potency, that I think few people acknowledge, and many don't know about.

No, actually alcohol really causes deaths and life-lasting mental issues (I'm sure you heard about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrosis... more alcohol-related links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_and_cancer http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/alcohol/alcohol_health.shtml). You can also get easily into an alcohol coma at high doses and there's another thing called 'alcohol withdrawal syndrome' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_withdrawal_syndrome), which can be fatal.

I'm not getting into the whole 'pro-weed / anti-alcohol' thing here as I'm into both, but you should really know some stuff about the liquors... Oh and I KNOW people that had REAL health issues because alcohol (relatives, close friends etc.) and I know and heard of people going psychotic after alcohol use and killing their own families and stuff like that (quite common thing in rural Romania.. we have 'the 5 o'clock news' here which is full of such things)

  On 10/14/2011 at 9:56 AM, lumpenprol said:

Have you ever heard of someone going psychotic or having a nervous breakdown on alcohol, and having lasting mental health issues? No, it's impossible.

Respectfully disagreeing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_effects_of_alcohol#Mental_health_effects

As for psychosis or nervous breakdowns, alcohol is a huge factor in many assaults, murders and suicides. I'm not part of the "weed is harmless" brigade by any means, but I do strongly feel that alcohol has a much greater propensity for harm even if you discount the deadly effects of cirrhosis or acute alcohol intoxication.

  On 10/14/2011 at 9:56 AM, lumpenprol said:

Have you ever heard of someone going psychotic or having a nervous breakdown on alcohol, and having lasting mental health issues?

Yes, of course . . take a look at the lifetime of any alcoholic; psychosis & breakdowns are not uncommon. People who black out often act psychotic. One of my closest friends had her brother try to kill her while blackout drunk, which he doesn't remember, and doesn't believe he did. Alcohol can awaken serious violent or depressive tendencies. I think marijuana is similar - it can exacerbate psychotic tendencies. I don't believe either one causes them.

so ppl can drink themsleves to death and we keep spirtits on the shelf

some ppl can smoke themselves stupid means we must ban all weed

makes perfect sense to me

to each his own, i say. people should know effects for all substance they come in contact with. so that's why i say UNBAN EVERYTHING

crystal meth forever

spirtits

  On 10/14/2011 at 4:44 PM, A/D said:

  On 10/14/2011 at 9:56 AM, lumpenprol said:

Have you ever heard of someone going psychotic or having a nervous breakdown on alcohol, and having lasting mental health issues?

Yes, of course . . take a look at the lifetime of any alcoholic; psychosis & breakdowns are not uncommon. People who black out often act psychotic. One of my closest friends had her brother try to kill her while blackout drunk, which he doesn't remember, and doesn't believe he did. Alcohol can awaken serious violent or depressive tendencies. I think marijuana is similar - it can exacerbate psychotic tendencies. I don't believe either one causes them.

this.

i think lumpy brings up good points. most people i talk to who have smoked weed tell me that they have never had any dramatic side effects. this fact leads to the assumption that you have to smoke/eat a LOT of weed in order to be seriously incapacitated/in danger. usually this amount is assumed to be totally unrealistic unless you just sit and smoke fatties all night. however, due to the ease of acquiring much higher strength weed and condensing it into baked goods, clearly the potential for "overdose" is high. while this isn't as serious as an alcohol or crack or heroin or acetaminophen OD, it's entirely possible and likely for it to magnify any existing issues.

the thing people need is education.