The Dutch To Reclassify High-Strength Cannabis

i didnt have time to read the whole thread, but my immediate opinion on the news article, id say i agree 60 percent with this. ultra strong hydroponic weed is an incredibly strong drug, my brain survived smoking enormous amounts of it for over three years, but i was a lucky one. at 23, when going home to see my pals, so many of them have had their brain rotted by this shit its ridiculous.

normal potency weed = harmless, ultra strong, genetically modified hydro skunk is a drug id say debatably stronger than pure ecstasy.

sorry, normal strength weed is not harmless, but almost harmless compared to say alcohol. harmless enough to be legal in my opinion. unlike, for example, hydro 'power plant' or 'k2' grown by a master. that shit, half a joint will put you in a state of mind almost as intensely paranoid as mushrooms and acid if you arent a hardened smoker.

i now know this, because after a full two years smoking no weed, i smoked a few tokes off a joint of an english hydroponic 'k2' a few weeks ago, and it damn near sent me round the fucking twist. when i used to smoke it in the bucketload, everyday, i had spent 3 years of my teenagehood building my tolerance with normal shit, but aye. that stuff is fucking mental.

again. 2 years smoking no weed.

weed tolerance guys.

i'm not saying hydro shit isn't crazy, but come on 2 years of no smoking makes you a lightweight.

so everyone who has this superweed available to them on tap has the tolerence to handle it?

and again, plenty of my mates had the same tolerance, and are now shuddering paranoid fucks.

it's their fault for smoking such potent weed constantly for such a long time.

but if its legal, it suggests its ok to do that to an uninformed member of the public

all im saying is, ultra strong weed is damaging. making it illegal makes sense according to the laws already in place all over the world regarding mind altering drugs. wether those laws are sensible in the first place is a whole different discussion

whiskey is legal as well...

i really can't get into this mindset. how would you imagine your body would react to such strong substances being fed into it constantly? something bad WILL happen sometime, no?

because weed atm, does not have the correct social impression of its damages associated to it as strong liquor. largely because weed in the last few years has increased to astronomical levels of potency due to skillful breeding. you grow up knowing lots of whiskey will fuck you up, you grow up knowing weed is an illegal substance, but also hearing thats its less damaging than alcohol. im sure super strength skunk is still less dangerous than liqour, but still. ultra strength skunk is mentally damaging. making it illegal, while leaving normal strength bud legal is a pretty logical and informed decision.

i think proper education would be better than making it illegal. people who want to smoke ultra high potent weed will get it anyway. why not get it in the same ways they used to?

proper education would be better for every drug, but thats not the way the world works, and in the near future that isnt going to change

it's a sad thing, really. the way the world works....

i know what you're saying though...

*gets sadder*

all im saying is, strong weed fucks most people up. i know from the experience of smoking 5 grams of it a day for 3+ years, and i realise now, a good few months clean of all drugs but alcohol and fags, in retrospect, i was lucky. a lot of my mates are more mentally unstable than they should be.

id also say, after nearly two years of taking strong mdma pills, ultra strong weed is more damaging than ultra strong mdma.

sorry, not ultra strong, but pure mdma. this is the difference, weed has grown exponentially stronger, where mdma is simply a chemical which is either pure or not.

not gonna say it again... but... 5+ grams a day...

that was me, i was making alot of money to smoke as much as i wanted from sources that are unmentionable, my friends couldnt afford to smoke that much.

is it illegal to say you have taken drugs on watmm now? I hope not in an informed discussion.

good thing you're over all that, then

i don't think anyone is arguing that 5+ grams a day of superweed is harmless.

moderation

i'd like to see more studies on 5gram a day people with regular weed though.

What's regular weed nowadays? I bet plants grown from seeds from the seedbanks are high on potency even when it's a complete tard growing it.

But yeah, 5grams a day is a little overkill, of course it's going to mess you up. And the use of MDMA on top of that isn't going to help. What happened to moderation?

  On 10/14/2011 at 4:44 PM, A/D said:

Yes, of course . . take a look at the lifetime of any alcoholic; psychosis & breakdowns are not uncommon. People who black out often act psychotic. One of my closest friends had her brother try to kill her while blackout drunk, which he doesn't remember, and doesn't believe he did. Alcohol can awaken serious violent or depressive tendencies. I think marijuana is similar - it can exacerbate psychotic tendencies. I don't believe either one causes them.

I anticipated this (the specious linking of the hallucinations that sometimes happen in late-term alcoholism with the potentially psychotic effects of very strong hash/weed products...I just don't think it's equivalent. I also don't think the lashing out that some stupid drunks do is equivalent - they wake up in the morning (assuming they wake up) with a bad hangover. A person who has a psychotic event induced by, say, a space cake - as I did - can have lingering effects for years that are essentially identical to post-traumatic-stress disorder (and interestingly, can be treated in the same way).

So...I understand the "it magnifies existing issues" argument, as I used to assume that as well. But after what I went through, I don't believe it. It essentially blames the user, which I believe is an appealing thought for chronic users as it allows them to feel cool about their own tolerance levels, and not think any bad thoughts about their precious weed.

tl;dr: agree with messien

i think what a lot of this points to is that marijuana should be treated like any other psychedelic drug, especially if you don't have much much experience with it. While alcohol can cause immediate danger to people who ingest it and those around them, it's rare unless with prolonged use that alcohol can 'release' or unlock a traumatic psychological event inside you. Im just jumping into the thread here, but even though i am very pro-pot i can get on board with these ideas.

  On 10/17/2011 at 12:22 AM, lumpenprol said:

  On 10/14/2011 at 4:44 PM, A/D said:

Yes, of course . . take a look at the lifetime of any alcoholic; psychosis & breakdowns are not uncommon. People who black out often act psychotic. One of my closest friends had her brother try to kill her while blackout drunk, which he doesn't remember, and doesn't believe he did. Alcohol can awaken serious violent or depressive tendencies. I think marijuana is similar - it can exacerbate psychotic tendencies. I don't believe either one causes them.

 

I anticipated this (the specious linking of the hallucinations that sometimes happen in late-term alcoholism with the potentially psychotic effects of very strong hash/weed products...I just don't think it's equivalent. I also don't think the lashing out that some stupid drunks do is equivalent - they wake up in the morning (assuming they wake up) with a bad hangover. A person who has a psychotic event induced by, say, a space cake - as I did - can have lingering effects for years that are essentially identical to post-traumatic-stress disorder (and interestingly, can be treated in the same way).

 

So...I understand the "it magnifies existing issues" argument, as I used to assume that as well. But after what I went through, I don't believe it. It essentially blames the user, which I believe is an appealing thought for chronic users as it allows them to feel cool about their own tolerance levels, and not think any bad thoughts about their precious weed.

 

tl;dr: agree with messien

most definitely. good point: if shrooms and lsd can cause PTSD than a weed brownie can too. I had a weed brownie trip that was notably stronger than my average 'hallucinogen' trip. it was excruciatingly mind bending.

i think part of this also has to do with marijuana dosage especially in novice users being extremely hard to gauge. We don't have a bunch of off the shelf products that divy up THC dosages so accurately like beer, wine or liquor. There is so much THC variance between marijuana and hash that if you don't smoke weed very often it's all too easy to get an overpowering psychedelic dosage of it.

  On 10/17/2011 at 12:36 AM, vamos scorcho said:

 

most definitely. good point: if shrooms and lsd can cause PTSD than a weed brownie can too. I had a weed brownie trip that was notably stronger than my average 'hallucinogen' trip. it was excruciatingly mind bending.

exactly my point. Again I'm not against legalization, I just don't take any issues with the decisions the Dutch have made, as I think it's based on years of first-hand experience being the pot capital of the world. I'm all for dosage info as they have with alcohol, and I think I'm also in favor of controlling weed/hash edibles - not making them illegal outright, but having an age limit and controlling the potency...maybe...tbh not sure what the best solution is yet. But I do think very high strength weed should be controlled in some fashion, as I think it's a different beast. Though I see how you can make analogies to say, the difference between a beer and Everclear, I don't think the situation is entirely analogous, as Everclear may kill you, but it won't break your mind with only one use. The long-term effects of alcoholism are another matter, as that's an addiction like any other. I'm talking about one-time come-out-of-left-field damage-your-brain potential.

And certainly, part of the issue is public education - which needless to say, will be the natural outcome, one way or another, of legalization and more widespread use. I think that, somewhat ironically, the push to make pot sound harmless so that it stands a better chance of being legalized, has actually impeded the spread of accurate public education. Most people are motivated by ideology, not rationality. Everyone knows to handle shrooms and LSD with care, yet many in the pro-pot-legalization camp still seem to present it as a completely harmless drug.

I smoked some K2 Pink synthetic potpourri and felt like I was going deaf and blind; like I was going to be paralyzed and still be conscious of how uncomfortable I was. I wanted to curl into the fetal position where I was standing in front of my friend's apartment building, but I thought it would hurt too much to move. Worst 5 minutes EVER. Complete dysphoria. Glad that synthetic stuff was criminalized. Real weed has always been great to me, though. *smokes*

  On 10/17/2011 at 3:06 AM, lumpenprol said:

  On 10/17/2011 at 12:36 AM, vamos scorcho said:

 

most definitely. good point: if shrooms and lsd can cause PTSD than a weed brownie can too. I had a weed brownie trip that was notably stronger than my average 'hallucinogen' trip. it was excruciatingly mind bending.

 

exactly my point. Again I'm not against legalization, I just don't take any issues with the decisions the Dutch have made, as I think it's based on years of first-hand experience being the pot capital of the world. I'm all for dosage info as they have with alcohol, and I think I'm also in favor of controlling weed/hash edibles - not making them illegal outright, but having an age limit and controlling the potency...maybe...tbh not sure what the best solution is yet. But I do think very high strength weed should be controlled in some fashion, as I think it's a different beast. Though I see how you can make analogies to say, the difference between a beer and Everclear, I don't think the situation is entirely analogous, as Everclear may kill you, but it won't break your mind with only one use. The long-term effects of alcoholism are another matter, as that's an addiction like any other. I'm talking about one-time come-out-of-left-field damage-your-brain potential.

 

And certainly, part of the issue is public education - which needless to say, will be the natural outcome, one way or another, of legalization and more widespread use. I think that, somewhat ironically, the push to make pot sound harmless so that it stands a better chance of being legalized, has actually impeded the spread of accurate public education. Most people are motivated by ideology, not rationality. Everyone knows to handle shrooms and LSD with care, yet many in the pro-pot-legalization camp still seem to present it as a completely harmless drug.

Has anyone ever told you that your username is really ironic?

edit: and I mean that in the nicest way possible

  On 10/16/2011 at 3:00 AM, messiaen said:

all im saying is, strong weed fucks most people up. i know from the experience of smoking 5 grams of it a day for 3+ years, and i realise now, a good few months clean of all drugs but alcohol and fags, in retrospect, i was lucky. a lot of my mates are more mentally unstable than they should be.

 

id also say, after nearly two years of taking strong mdma pills, ultra strong weed is more damaging than ultra strong mdma.

 

sorry, not ultra strong, but pure mdma. this is the difference, weed has grown exponentially stronger, where mdma is simply a chemical which is either pure or not.

BUt wait, you smoked 5+ grams of K2 every day? Or you smoked really good weed? K2 =/= THC so K2 =/= weed. It's a synthetic and shitty. I tried it once because my friend couldn't smoke at the time and it was not something I would do again.

ive had a lot more panic attacks from weed than from anything else but uh. ive smoked a lot more weed than anything else. good stuff, too. homegrown madison stuff, based on the real good amsterdam strains, formulated for potency and all that. and i am kind of a gibbering mess sometimes, so i can't really disagree with the sentiment. granted, i knew i had psychological shit before i really started smoking weed, but it certainly did not help.

but i do think that's the key. i don't think weed causes as much fucked up shit as other drugs, but it certainly amplifies what's already there if you partake too much for too long.

that said, classifying it on the same level as physically addictive drugs is kinda stupid.