Google to sell Augmented Reality Glasses in 2012.

  On 2/25/2012 at 1:19 AM, Margatroid said:

  On 2/24/2012 at 9:27 AM, chenGOD said:

Umm not that I really have a dog in this race - but you can't provide an argument and say - not going to source this - you can look it up.

 

And in fact looking up the US government's time-use studies, they show a remarkable consistency between 2004-2011 in the amount of time per day spent socializing and communicating.

2004 was 0.78hrs/day socializing or communicating (scroll to page 9 of the PDF)

2010 was 0.70hrs/day socializing or communicating.

Barely a statistical blip.

 

Anyways - I've already said that i thought Hoodie's example was a superficial one - but there are certainly some valid points for technology.

 

Your argument about people finding like-minded communities is specious - this forum has people who share a love of electronic music, but they also bring many other things to the table, and as a result we actually have an opportunity to learn about the world outside of our small burg to a much greater degree than did the people who used to congregate at the local coffee shop to listen to that one guy who'd been abroad talk about the outside world.

Whether or not we take advantage of that opportunity - that's a different question altogether.

I think those studies probably include internet use, texting and phone calls under their definition of "socializing and communicating." While that isn't incorrect, it also doesn't really go against the point I was making. I was talking about actual face time: time spent intimately with other people, in person. That is something which has declined. Also, you are right about the internet providing all kinds of information and differing views that one would be less likely to encounter otherwise. However, being knowledgeable and worldly does not necessarily translate into an increase in empathy, and I think the social barriers that have been created through the constant public use of electronic devices are something that you are not considering.

 

Knowing more about the world becomes far less relevant if you can't have a conversation with the person sitting next to you because they're on their laptop, texting/on their phone, or have iPod earbuds on. People constantly shut themselves off from their actual surroundings because their digital gadgets offer instant gratification and larger variety of experience, but the quality of that experience becomes impoverished when the main way it is shared is through said gadgets. The actual social world becomes fractured as people gather in notional digital communities rather than real physical ones. And there is a genuine loss there. I think people will eventually figure this out.

 

Anyway, I think this is largely a matter of age and perspective. "Using facebook together" with your friends or spending lots of time reading something like reddit seems a lot more interesting when you're younger. I find both of those things to be pretty unrewarding, but that's my POV.

Actually the studies have a separate category for telephone calls/e-mail/mail.

From the technical note : "Socializing and communicating includes face-to-face social communication and hosting or attending social functions."

Leisure activities include internet use/watching TV/playing computer/board/card games.

As to the age thing - I'm 37. How about you?

  On 2/25/2012 at 1:19 AM, Margatroid said:

The actual social world becomes fractured as people gather in notional digital communities rather than real physical ones. And there is a genuine loss there. I think people will eventually figure this out.

this notion of "realness" some people are having pisses me off.

what's so "unreal" about a community like watmm for example ? i assure you i'm not a bot, and it is me, the actual 28 old male from israel who's making this post. you can't really see me live, so what ? i don't even feel the need to see you..this type of communication has many benefits and it's not faker than talking face to face, it's just something different and newer.

get with the times.

  On 2/25/2012 at 5:52 AM, eugene said:

  On 2/25/2012 at 1:19 AM, Margatroid said:

The actual social world becomes fractured as people gather in notional digital communities rather than real physical ones. And there is a genuine loss there. I think people will eventually figure this out.

this notion of "realness" some people are having pisses me off.

what's so "unreal" about a community like watmm for example ? i assure you i'm not a bot, and it is me, the actual 28 old male from israel who's making this post. you can't really see me live, so what ? i don't even feel the need to see you..this type of communication has many benefits and it's not faker than talking face to face, it's just something different and newer.

get with the times.

i totally agree.

i agree too. It's give and take. Online communication is both more impersonal in some ways, and more intimate in others. Plus, I think it self-selects for more articulate folks (at least on this forum), which is nice...

I have nothing to add to the debate, but just thought I'd pop by and say thanks for a fascinating read WATMM. This thread is an example of what's great about the internet

  On 2/25/2012 at 5:52 AM, eugene said:

this notion of "realness" some people are having pisses me off.

what's so "unreal" about a community like watmm for example ? i assure you i'm not a bot, and it is me, the actual 28 old male from israel who's making this post. you can't really see me live, so what ? i don't even feel the need to see you..this type of communication has many benefits and it's not faker than talking face to face, it's just something different and newer.

get with the times.

i agree with that and have always thought the same it's just that you end up having to use certain expressions because everyone else does.

  On 2/22/2012 at 7:58 PM, Hoodie said:

you're a conscious being that has had ~20-30 years of unique experiences and perceptions and thoughts in front of a computer, how cool is that?

  On 2/22/2012 at 7:38 PM, Murveman said:

It's what people use them for is what bothers me. Half the time I don't feel like people are getting anything out of being online all day. So many people are always saying "Ugh, I played minecraft/was online for 8 hours today and I feel terrible".

i know it sounds hippie and greepeace but we have real problems that need solutions with our planet and we're losting our time developing technology for retards...

[youtubehd]KpUNA2nutbk[/youtubehd]

"like it even fucking matter what you're doing"

  On 2/25/2012 at 4:01 AM, chenGOD said:

Actually the studies have a separate category for telephone calls/e-mail/mail.

From the technical note : "Socializing and communicating includes face-to-face social communication and hosting or attending social functions."

Leisure activities include internet use/watching TV/playing computer/board/card games.

 

As to the age thing - I'm 37. How about you?

Fair enough. I'm 31. I figured you were younger since you talked about being in college.

Anyway, I hope you can see where I'm coming from on this stuff at least. It seems like Hoodie and eugene really can't. I've been heavily influenced by the ideas of people like Carl Jung and Alan Watts, so I have an ingrained tendency to question the ways in which people use technology, and to question the overall philosophy behind how we live our lives in the modern Western world.

Yeah I'm back in school so I don't have to work service jobs (see 1% tipping thread) lol.

Yes I can see where you're coming from - it certainly can make some people withdrawn.

I'd wager however that as the generation grows up with this always on tech, it will not hold the same kind of fascination for them. I mean the kids I go to school with have some very different views about how they use tech. Imagine the generation that's never known a world without social media?

But we still dont have hoverboards...

  On 2/22/2012 at 2:00 AM, YO303 said:

eye contact

is very important, good looking

so transition technology will be included. still not buying

lol

http://www.viddler.com/v/ba99fe42

  On 2/26/2012 at 9:12 AM, ghOsty said:

But we still dont have hoverboards...

This and jetpacks. Alot more important.

[youtubehd]OOMDMWzhO9k[/youtubehd]

two thread related thoughts (well, not related to the initial subject of the thread but it seems the discussion went somewhere else!) :

- I'm sure we all have a lot of examples where the tools of that big "have-an-access-to-information-everywhere-everytime" interferes with direct communication (I mean without any technological intermediate). One time a friend of mine pick me up in car for going at a party and during all the way to there he was wearing one earphone in his ear closest to me. It was really weird, he's a childhood friend and we've kinda took very different way of lives but still, I maybe see him twice a year and he's wearing headphones when we do. I can't say it blocked the conversation but still, he used one of his ear for doing something else that talking / interacting with me and I see that as a restriction.

My roomate also used to come with her laptop in the living room where another roomate and me + possibly other people were chatting together. She was staying with us but she was always doing something on her laptop (basically, facebook or watching series). Once she even used her laptop (facebook again) when we were watching a movie. what the fuck ? I know she's free for doing whatever she wants but that just looks weird and uncommunicative to me.

- On a personal level, I've figured out that the periods I spend more time on internet, this forum, facebook, video games, etc are the periods during which I feel lonelier. As the biggest example, I've finished my studies about six month ago now and made the bad choice of coming back to my parents place in order to save some money before to leave again and make a project with some friends. Since I'm here again, I sometimes don't feel so well and have the feeling I miss the social environment I had during my studies. Basically, I meet less people, I make less music, and I find myself sometimes spending way too much time on internet doing nothing. And I perfectly know I will use internet like three times less when I'll live with my friends in three months.

I won't make a personal conclusion on that because I'm too tired and I'm too slow for writing all these bullshit in English so I'll just let these little examples and will let you see what you wanna see in them

I'm sure this is all about advertising flying in your face @ 300 mph anyways, every building you look at there'll be digital posterboards for the greatest deals to be found in the shops inside.

What's known as the dogs bollox

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qbrQKz_Kk

nice.

  On 2/27/2012 at 12:34 AM, Antape said:

two thread related thoughts (well, not related to the initial subject of the thread but it seems the discussion went somewhere else!) :

 

- I'm sure we all have a lot of examples where the tools of that big "have-an-access-to-information-everywhere-everytime" interferes with direct communication (I mean without any technological intermediate). One time a friend of mine pick me up in car for going at a party and during all the way to there he was wearing one earphone in his ear closest to me. It was really weird, he's a childhood friend and we've kinda took very different way of lives but still, I maybe see him twice a year and he's wearing headphones when we do. I can't say it blocked the conversation but still, he used one of his ear for doing something else that talking / interacting with me and I see that as a restriction.

 

My roomate also used to come with her laptop in the living room where another roomate and me + possibly other people were chatting together. She was staying with us but she was always doing something on her laptop (basically, facebook or watching series). Once she even used her laptop (facebook again) when we were watching a movie. what the fuck ? I know she's free for doing whatever she wants but that just looks weird and uncommunicative to me.

 

- On a personal level, I've figured out that the periods I spend more time on internet, this forum, facebook, video games, etc are the periods during which I feel lonelier. As the biggest example, I've finished my studies about six month ago now and made the bad choice of coming back to my parents place in order to save some money before to leave again and make a project with some friends. Since I'm here again, I sometimes don't feel so well and have the feeling I miss the social environment I had during my studies. Basically, I meet less people, I make less music, and I find myself sometimes spending way too much time on internet doing nothing. And I perfectly know I will use internet like three times less when I'll live with my friends in three months.

 

I won't make a personal conclusion on that because I'm too tired and I'm too slow for writing all these bullshit in English so I'll just let these little examples and will let you see what you wanna see in them

I pretty much agree with everything you've said in this thread

In fact, I'm working on a thesis of this very topic for my honours course; there's a lot of conflicting arguments about the quality of communication, such as instant gratification and there being some kind of "pure" communication going on. But, like you, I'm concerned with the physical presence/absence that's an undeniable result of these kinds of always-on technology. The "quality of communication" argument is a hard one to back because you don't know how or what people are doing all the time, and I think that IM or social networks still (for now) work to complement face-to-face interaction. But on the other side of the coin, regardless of what someone's DOING with their phone or laptop they are disengaged from space and it is alarming to me because it's an elsewhere that's so appealing and instantly gratifying that being (physically) present with someone sometimes can't compete.

That idea of elsewhere being a competition for the immediate present is hardly a new thing though. This s just the present-day manifestation of it. Hell you could probably take that all the way back to Plato's cave.

  On 3/13/2012 at 6:00 AM, Rambo said:

What's known as the dogs bollox

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3qbrQKz_Kk

that tabletop rippling effect with a nice dose of LSD in the water supply could do some fucked up things to a person's reality.

  On 3/14/2012 at 9:07 AM, chenGOD said:

That idea of elsewhere being a competition for the immediate present is hardly a new thing though. This s just the present-day manifestation of it. Hell you could probably take that all the way back to Plato's cave.

good point but I think it's on a different scale now and our immediate present involves people and places, like those guys at the mars volta gig who spent the entire night tweeting, and I the fool who spent a entire night watching those guys who spent the entire night tweeting about the gig. I see it less as an argument of communication and more as an argument about boundaries and distance and whether there can be any kind of distance