EURO 2012

  On 6/25/2012 at 12:15 AM, Gary C said:

 

 

Ashley Young has been the worst player of the tournament. In any team. By a long way. Horrendous. It's idiotic that we kept him on for 120 minutes really.

Why did he kept playing Milner and Young? both were shit. Walcott on one wing and The Ox on the other, that was the way to go.

Milner was far worse than Young IMO.

And as for Rooney?

Fucking crock of shit. We displayed real fucking teamwork and passion in the Sweden game, then suddenly Wayne Shithouse comes back for the last two games and just sucked cock.

Fuck off England.

The moment I saw this advert I knew it would come back to haunt him, what a fucking tit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvTv_oatLA0

I don't know. Milner isn't a game changer, but Johnson is so bad positionally that he needs cover in front of him. Walcott has the ability to change games, but he's rubbish defensively. We would have likely conceded more goals if he had started these games.

As soon as Walker and Richards are getting in, then Walcott will get more chances, and likelier from a more central position.

The Ox impressed... and to be honest, he should have been the third sub on. I think Hodgson blinked too early. He made two subs on 60mins (Carroll for Welbeck and Walcott for Milner). Welbeck had been doing fine up that point. The ball was practically glued to his foot, so he should have lasted another 10-15mins. Carroll was great in extra time, but Italy hadn't made a single substitution when Gerrard went down with cramp and Parker went AWOL.

We were left with two central scrappers on their last legs, and at that point you can't bring on a young flair player, so we had to put out Henderson... Who, for all I can remember, did absolutely nothing of note.

The smart move would have been to swap Young for Chamberlain on 60mins, Carroll for Welbeck on 75mins, and then depending on whether Gerrard or Parker were lagging bring on Henderson or Jones... or if they were holding up still, bring Walcott on for Milner.

Ups from the tournament: Carroll is getting better. Welbeck is class. Oxlade-Chamberlain will be world-class. Lescott stepped up. We fought defiantly as a unit and worked for one-another.

Downers: Rooney can't perform for England. Young has embarassed himself, and there aren't many other options to replace him.

We're going to need a new idea, and a new engine for the team, if we're actually going to win games and not just not-lose them. Gerrard can survive 'til the next tournament, but we're going to need to go 4-5-1 and have Wilshere as the creative playmaker in the middle.

  On 6/25/2012 at 2:03 AM, Indicator said:

+

  On 6/25/2012 at 12:00 AM, YO303 said:

= Italy - England: 2012 Euro Championship Quarterfinal

So, moving on? I think Italy - Germany will be quite a game. Germany are good, but they're not as orgasmically good as the self-loathing WATMM English Ladies League seem to think. Should be...2-1 Germany? If you're the betting type, anyhow.

I was right about Group D. Shittest of the Shit at this tournament.

I don't know about that, Group A was equally shit. (Always likely to have two shit groups when the two host nations are poor).

I think England did well considering how crap they are. Possiby Roy could have done something different with the subs - personally I would have switched Milner to the left where Italy had a lot of joy getting forward, and taken Young off. And i would have taken Rooney off rather than Wellbeck. If you're going to sit deep and hit long balls to Carroll or try to launch quick counter-attacks via Walcott you need someone who is at the very least mobile enough to help. It's likely Hodgson was already thinking of the penalty takers. Rooney was wrecked, unfit and off form. In retrospect he probably shouldn't have even started.

I was surprised at the higher line they played in the first half, possibly the plan was to get the midfield closer to Pirlo? Didn't work that well though, England could have scored but Balotelli could have had a hattrick. Great entertainment. It was risky and when England tired midway through the 2nd half and Italy dominated Hodgson reverted to the deeper line, hoping to nick something on the counter-attack. Didn't work though because when Carroll got the ball down there either wasn't that much help or he made the wrong decision. Should he not have drifted toward the right and tried to flick on / play in Walcott when he redceived the ball, rather than the static Rooney? Also, I was surprised that one of the strikers didn't get in Pirlo's face at all times.

Penalties. There's a reason why England don't have a good record in shootouts: generally the players with the better technique, composure and intelligence win. What Hodgson's side has highlighted, so well that even the most simple-minded EDF thicko cannot fail to see, is that English players are, on the whole, crap. In the past there's been player's like Scholes who have febrezed over the stench. Wilshere maybe the closest thing to an air freshner England have at the moment. I'm glad he was injured.

Hodgson: right man at the moment probably. Not the right man to provide the model for the under 15 teams.

Italy were very good but Germany are undoubtably better.

Positives:

- Lescott

- Terry (hate to say it, but he was excellent)

- Wellbeck

- Gerrard played well

- Carroll showed some great touches and movement

- Some of the link-up attacking play was excellent (e.g. Wellbeck goal)

Negatives

- Ashley Young

- Rooney

- Bottling penalties yet again

- Inability to keep the ball, which made us tired from chasing, which made the situation worse.

I wonder if psychologically/physiologically Rooney's legs literally went to sleep? I guess he's used to a month off in the summer, and he kind of got 3 weeks off and then was doing light training but nothing strenuous and no competitive matches. He looked like he needed some pre-season matches to get going again. Disappointing, with benefit of hindsight it perhaps would have been smarter to keep Rooney as a sub.

Bottom line: defenders and forwards aren't that bad, midfield is terrible. If you haven't got a great midfield you have to be direct and defensive and you can't retain possession or control games.

The English team will continue to be overrated as long as the press exists. Quarter and semifinals is all they are good for at the most. Why aren't there that many English players playing outside the EPL, not good enough to make it on other countries top leagues?

  On 6/25/2012 at 3:10 PM, azatoth said:

The English team will continue to be overrated as long as the press exists. Quarter and semifinals is all they are good for at the most. Why aren't there that many English players playing outside the EPL, not good enough to make it on other countries top leagues?

The PL pays a lot better, and so other than a few teams like Madrid, Milan, Barca the PL is the place to be. Sadly it means that there's a pretty engrained and unique style in the PL - great to watch, but not particularly comparable to a lot of the football in other countries. I'd love to see more English players in Spain/Italy etc. A lot of English players are good enough to play for the top teams - sadly their wage demands, sponsors and horse stables mean that they're likely to stay put.

  On 6/25/2012 at 3:10 PM, azatoth said:

Why aren't there that many English players playing outside the EPL, not good enough to make it on other countries top leagues?

Absolutely.

But I'd rather how our situation of not-enough-mediocre-players-spread-out-in-middling-teams than have two-teams-that-provide-9-out-of-11-national-players like in Spain.

  On 6/25/2012 at 3:51 PM, Gary C said:

  On 6/25/2012 at 3:10 PM, azatoth said:

Why aren't there that many English players playing outside the EPL, not good enough to make it on other countries top leagues?

 

Absolutely.

 

But I'd rather how our situation of not-enough-mediocre-players-spread-out-in-middling-teams than have two-teams-that-provide-9-out-of-11-national-players like in Spain.

Absolutely. At least the PL is competitive, and I like the fact that last nights starting 11 was from 5 different teams. One of the positives for the PL is how new teams like Swansea and Norwich have approached the PL, but playing tactically intelligent and attacking football. Hopefully there's a new generation of young coaches who are a bit more savvy and ready to bring English football forward. I guess Big Sam will screw that over though.

I'd love for English players to make a point of playing for a team in the other leagues. Surely that has to be an amazing learning experience? 3 years in a couple of other leagues for a young player would surely provide so much value.

Though, to be honest the reasons why English players don't often go to other country's leagues is probably not so much pay as it is not bothering to learn the language. Such is the English way.

  On 6/25/2012 at 4:15 PM, Obel said:

I'd love for English players to make a point of playing for a team in the other leagues. Surely that has to be an amazing learning experience? 3 years in a couple of other leagues for a young player would surely provide so much value.

 

Though, to be honest the reasons why English players don't often go to other country's leagues is probably not so much pay as it is not bothering to learn the language. Such is the English way.

Also it is fucking hard. For someone like me (27, reasonably settled) I'd jump at the opportunity to move aboard, and in fact way well be heading to the states for a year in the near future. However for an 18-19 year old it must be a very difficult decision to make. Don't get me wrong, I think there are lot of the barriers are artificial, but my mate is a reserve team physio for a PL team and from what he says, the young superstars are basically kids who've been thrown into adulthood really quickly. It's not surprising that someone like Danny Welbeck (just plucked an example) chose to go to Sunderland, rather than somewhere like Bilbao. As well as home issues, I guess there's also a feeling that you'll be 'forgotten' about if you head abroad.

Yep. Hargreaves is the only English player I know of who performed his best football abroad, but even then, he was mostly forgotten about until he moved to United.

pure unadulterated gash.

  On 6/25/2012 at 4:38 PM, jhonny said:

  On 6/25/2012 at 4:15 PM, Obel said:

I'd love for English players to make a point of playing for a team in the other leagues. Surely that has to be an amazing learning experience? 3 years in a couple of other leagues for a young player would surely provide so much value.

 

Though, to be honest the reasons why English players don't often go to other country's leagues is probably not so much pay as it is not bothering to learn the language. Such is the English way.

 

Also it is fucking hard. For someone like me (27, reasonably settled) I'd jump at the opportunity to move aboard, and in fact way well be heading to the states for a year in the near future. However for an 18-19 year old it must be a very difficult decision to make. Don't get me wrong, I think there are lot of the barriers are artificial, but my mate is a reserve team physio for a PL team and from what he says, the young superstars are basically kids who've been thrown into adulthood really quickly. It's not surprising that someone like Danny Welbeck (just plucked an example) chose to go to Sunderland, rather than somewhere like Bilbao. As well as home issues, I guess there's also a feeling that you'll be 'forgotten' about if you head abroad.

Yeah, fair point. It's gotta be quite scary.

The premier league is not competitive and players are - usually - picked for the national team only from the top teams. Henderson is a prime example.

  On 6/25/2012 at 5:32 PM, Blue Peter Cheat said:

The premier league is not competitive and players are - usually - picked for the national team only from the top teams. Henderson is a prime example.

Henderson's age and potential* is why he was picked.

Martin Kelly probably shouldn't have been picked. Richards should have been on the bench, but I guess as Hodgson was only picking him for an experience, then he might as well go with a player he's worked closely with (at Liverpool**).

*Potential not as in a growing talent and skill, but his potential to be an important player for a big club. Liverpool will get back into Europe in the next 5 years and he'll be playing big games and garnering vast experience regardless of whether he's technically as good as some hearty low-profile players.

**Same thing with Henderson really. He'd never admit it, and neither should he, but Hodgson picked too relatively inexperienced and odd players because of his familiarity with them in recent years and his lack of adequate preparation.

My point is, Henderson would never have been picked if he still played at Sunderland.

Phil Jones is another, and Smalling, and I don't think Wellbeck would have travelled if he didn't play for Man U. I like him but he would not have gone.

bit difficult to call liverpool a top team at the moment.

Smalling and Welbeck are genuinely good players, Jones has the potential to be massive, but he needs to settle on a position quickly.

Saying the PL is not competitive is a big ??? Since 2004 only clubs from three countries have won the champions league, Italy, Spain and England, and English clubs have been runners-up more than any other nation in that time frame.

England lacked fitness and creativity. I don't know why the English always drain all the flair out of their players. Rooney a few years ago was a menace to opposing defenders.

Now the only players on the English side capable of beating a defender one on one are Oxlade-Chamberlain and Adam Johnson - and Johnson doesn't get a look in, probably because of his ability to beat people.

anyways that quarter-final was, as I said, pure, unadulterated, utter, fucking, gash.

  On 6/25/2012 at 5:49 PM, chenGOD said:

bit difficult to call liverpool a top team at the moment.

"big club". Not top. Unfortunately, despite wallowing mid-table and failing to qualify for anything interesting Liverpool are still a 'big' club thanks to their history and a few current players.

Haha, true but maybe it's a mark of England's desperation.