IDF have told The Times they expect to invade Gaza this weekend.

My sister did an interview with Maya Yechieli Wind, an Israeli activist, who until she actually visited Gaza herself believed in the dehumanizing propaganda. She dissented and refused to serve in the IDF. She also explains why so many people in Israel automatically support the occupation as a result of 'psychic distress' from being forced to serve by law in the Israeli military at a young age

http://youtu.be/rCp8JRFA5wI

@ 3 minutes

side note: let's just call out the over emphasis on Hamas tactics such as launching missiles near schools, etc for what is. It's an emotionally charged form of propaganda to make the Israeli military seem morally superior and acting as if whatever reasons Hamas *might* do that came out of a vacuum or simply because they are 'terrorists', whatever the fuck that means. I think it's disingenuous to focus on whatever tactics the extremely inferior militarily Hamas fighters use against Israeli forces. It really is of the same flavor as focusing in on or emphasizing Iraqi insurgent tactics who fought the US in Iraq while taking the focus off the full scope of what's going on. It would be like me continually reminding people that Israel forces killed a female american activist by crushing her with a bulldozer

  On 11/20/2012 at 11:37 PM, compson said:

If Hamas ceased their violence and rhetoric, there would be peace.

wrong, there will never be peace as long as an occupying force keeps feeding into the violence. If it wasn't Hamas it would be someone else that would be demonized.

and sorry gotta bring Doc Chomsky back in here to clear the air a little bit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7SVaJLuNSo

  On 11/20/2012 at 11:37 PM, compson said:

Their leadership encourages the violence and their method for

Hamas calls for the genocide and destruction of all the Jews and Israel. If this was as common on the Israeli side then Gaza and the surrounding regions would be wiped the fuck out.

Maybe since you've been spending so much time collecting pictures of people in masks running with children you missed these tidbits

  Quote

Writing in The Jerusalem Post Sharon, an activist for the opposition Kadima party, said: “The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.

 

"We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

 

"There should be no electricity in Gaza, no gasoline or moving vehicles, nothing. Then they’d really call for a ceasefire."

 

  Quote

Israel's Deputy Prime Minister Eli Yishai of the Shas party, for example, proudly proclaimed, "We must blow Gaza back to the Middle Ages, destroying all the infrastructure, including roads and water."

This is an explicit call for Israel to commit war crimes under the Geneva Conventions, which forbid deliberate targeting of civilian populations, including "drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works."

but i guess since the IDF knows how to 'code' their form of racism by implying genocide under the guise of self preservation it's not as bad right?

france was conquered by jews 200 years ago and then over and over again in various wars. jews are the reason we have liberalism and equality. if french people want to complain about their rulers then they should be allowed. france did put up w fight against rothschild i. the 1980s but after that they just returned and carried o. ruling and plundering via their various freemason flunkies and shills

  On 11/21/2012 at 2:28 PM, chunky said:

france was conquered by jews 200 years ago and then over and over again in various wars. jews are the reason we have liberalism and equality. if french people want to complain about their rulers then they should be allowed. france did put up w fight against rothschild i. the 1980s but after that they just returned and carried o. ruling and plundering via their various freemason flunkies and shills

what the fuck is going on in here?

Must be a full moon.

to wrap up what we've learned here:

i have no idea what i'm talking about (specifically my information is six years old and sprinkled throughout with propaganda), Robbie is a fool, in the 70s cuba and the communists teamed up with arabs to attack israel via the un, there may be a need to rectify the historical record on the holocaust which task may or may not include the exposure of a possible worldwide jewish conspiracy, the french are racist, hamas is always using human shields which excuses idf killings of innocent civilians, israel has a right to defend itself and finally -- eugene is sure that i am happy when jews die.

did i miss anything? lush thread, would read again.

  On 11/21/2012 at 6:00 AM, compson said:

Brian has to be trolling, he said he would love if "jewish conspiracy could explain all that happened and currently happens in the world"

i interpreted that as him saying "it'd be great if we could fault all the troubles of the world on one group, but in actuality the situation is not as clear-cut."

"New combat robots ready for Gaza ground offensive"

  Quote

haaretzonline @haaretzcom

#Palestinian sources in #Cairo: No truce Wednesday due to disagreement over #Gaza blockade http://htz.li/RS5okn

  Quote

Tim Marshall @Skytwitius

Hamas has praised the Tel Aviv bus bombing but,contrary to reports elsewhere, has NOT claimed responsibility.

  Quote

ajelive @AJELive

Five people reportedly killed in #Gaza following a series of Israeli air strikes, according to AFP.

  Quote

GAZA CITY - 11/21/2012 - 14:11

 

Building housing AFP Gaza office hit, child killed: medics

  On 11/21/2012 at 6:03 AM, Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

it seems more people sympathize with the Palestinians because they are ultimately going to be the ones wiped out by this conflict.

This is true for me, and the fact that Israel illegally took Palestinian land, and forced them into fragmented settlements, and set up checkpoints to monitor them. And after all these they claim victimhood, that they need to defend themselves, and set up these ridiculous requirements for negotiation. And the fact that a sovereign country was created with citizenship based on fucking RELIGION.

  On 11/21/2012 at 5:03 PM, Alcofribas said:

lush thread, would read again.

still waiting for an Alcofribas review of the thread/conflict

  On 11/21/2012 at 5:03 PM, Alcofribas said:

to wrap up what we've learned here:

 

i have no idea what i'm talking about (specifically my information is six years old and sprinkled throughout with propaganda), Robbie is a fool, in the 70s cuba and the communists teamed up with arabs to attack israel via the un, there may be a need to rectify the historical record on the holocaust which task may or may not include the exposure of a possible worldwide jewish conspiracy, the french are racist, hamas is always using human shields which excuses idf killings of innocent civilians, israel has a right to defend itself and finally -- eugene is sure that i am happy when jews die.

 

did i miss anything? lush thread, would read again.

I think we can bring the Australians into this somehow.

  Quote

This is a picture that the media will never paint. Palestinians are being imprisoned by the very factions that are inside their region. What people will never know is how many Palestinians live in Israel, outside of Gaza and West Bank, that they are free to build Mosques and not have to worry about them getting burned down. My aunt's neighbors in Ramla were Palestinian - many of them were. There were plenty of Muslims walking among everyone else in her old neighborhood, and even in places like Tel-Aviv or Yaffa. See below graphic. Israeli's have no problem letting Palestinians live and practice in peace.

 

If you genocide criers out there were right, this map below would looking nothing like this:

 

 

Throughout Israel there are Mosques and Islamic private schools, all of which stand untouched and in superbly clean state. Many of the Mosques are massive and in enormously populated areas of Israel such as Tel-Aviv. So the notion that Palestinians are systematically oppressed by Israel is silly, because all are free to practice any religion in Israel. You can even question faiths and beliefs (including Judaism) and not go to jail for it like you would in other countries (Russia).

  On 11/21/2012 at 8:33 AM, Iain C said:

  On 11/21/2012 at 6:00 AM, compson said:

Brian has to be trolling, he said he would love if "jewish conspiracy could explain all that happened and currently happens in the world"

 

He's not trolling, he's just a traditional French anti-semite, they've been doing it for centuries

dude, i'm no anti-semite. i don't give 2 fucks about jews, they're human beings like all others. if having a problem with zionism is being an anti-semite you can call me an anti-semite. and the quote is incorrect, i said i don't think things are as simple to understand as a jewish conspiracy.

to answer SR IV, some people doubt that hitler's project for jews in camps was to kill them, some doubt that gas chambers ever existed, some think the official number of jews that died during WW2 is doubtful, and so on. i don't see what's wrong with having doubts. i find it very suspicious that everytime someone questions anything jew-related in france, he gets called an anti-semite by french zionists who use the holocaust in their rhetoric as a shield against all questioning about jews, which automatically stops all discussion because non-jews suddenly feel guilty about the holocaust and feel the need to apologize to so much suffering. as if the invasion of normandy had just happened yesterday. once again, i only speak from a french point of view.

unrelated to the topic: i didn't know abby martin was awepittance's sister. she's hot

  On 11/21/2012 at 5:52 PM, Iain C said:

  On 11/21/2012 at 5:03 PM, Alcofribas said:

to wrap up what we've learned here:

 

i have no idea what i'm talking about (specifically my information is six years old and sprinkled throughout with propaganda), Robbie is a fool, in the 70s cuba and the communists teamed up with arabs to attack israel via the un, there may be a need to rectify the historical record on the holocaust which task may or may not include the exposure of a possible worldwide jewish conspiracy, the french are racist, hamas is always using human shields which excuses idf killings of innocent civilians, israel has a right to defend itself and finally -- eugene is sure that i am happy when jews die.

 

did i miss anything? lush thread, would read again.

 

I think we can bring the Australians into this somehow.

Zole!

  On 11/21/2012 at 6:03 PM, Brian Tregaskin said:

some people doubt that hitler's project for jews in camps was to kill them, some doubt that gas chambers ever existed, some think the official number of jews that died during WW2 is doubtful, and so on.

Find me one of these people who isn't a neo-nazi.

  On 11/21/2012 at 10:38 AM, Awepittance said:

My sister did an interview with Maya Yechieli Wind, an Israeli activist, who until she actually visited Gaza herself believed in the dehumanizing propaganda. She dissented and refused to serve in the IDF. She also explains why so many people in Israel automatically support the occupation as a result of 'psychic distress' from being forced to serve by law in the Israeli military at a young age

 

http://youtu.be/rCp8JRFA5wI

@ 3 minutes

 

 

side note: let's just call out the over emphasis on Hamas tactics such as launching missiles near schools, etc for what is. It's an emotionally charged form of propaganda to make the Israeli military seem morally superior and acting as if whatever reasons Hamas *might* do that came out of a vacuum or simply because they are 'terrorists', whatever the fuck that means. I think it's disingenuous to focus on whatever tactics the extremely inferior militarily Hamas fighters use against Israeli forces. It really is of the same flavor as focusing in on or emphasizing Iraqi insurgent tactics who fought the US in Iraq while taking the focus off the full scope of what's going on. It would be like me continually reminding people that Israel forces killed a female american activist by crushing her with a bulldozer

wait, is that news presenter/reporter your sister?

what's the deal with introducing herself with "wassup yoooo?". i'm unfamiliar with the show.

  On 11/21/2012 at 5:55 PM, compson said:

If you genocide criers out there were right

you have the uncanny ability at finding stuff designed to take much needed empathy away from the Palestinian plight, and for that i congratulate you

you do realize that pointing out that other parts of Israel having an Arab population is irrelevant to anything i said which you did not address right? I hope so.

  On 11/21/2012 at 6:06 PM, Iain C said:

  On 11/21/2012 at 6:03 PM, Brian Tregaskin said:

some people doubt that hitler's project for jews in camps was to kill them, some doubt that gas chambers ever existed, some think the official number of jews that died during WW2 is doubtful, and so on.

 

Find me one of these people who isn't a neo-nazi.

him:

Glenn Greenwald knocks ample dick out of a various mouths in his new article

  Quote

 

The 'both-sides-are-awful' dismissal of Gaza ignores the key role of the US government

 

The temptation to wash one's hands of the whole conflict is understandable, but US support of Israel is a central force driving it all

 

Everything about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict follows the same pattern over and over, including the reaction of Americans. In the first couple of days after a new round of violence breaks out, there is intense interest and passion, which is quickly replaced by weariness, irritation, and even anger that one has to be bothered by this never-ending, always-ugly and seemingly irresolvable conflict. These sentiments then morph into an attempt to separate oneself from the entire matter by declaring both sides to be equally horrendous and thus washing one's hands from any responsibility for thinking further about it ("I'm sick of both sides"), followed by recriminations against anyone who actually has an opinion that is more supportive of one side than the other.

Esquire's Charles Pierce, one of the nation's best political writers, provided a classic case of this mindset yesterday in his post entitled "There Is No Side Worth Taking In Gaza". The crux: "I would like to have an opinion on this continual bloodletting that didn't sound banal but, goddammit, I'm out of them. I am thoroughly sick of both sides here." One encounters a version of this mentality with increasing frequency each day that the violence escalates.

This temptation is genuinely understandable. Few things are more depressing than paying attention to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. The carnage and mutual hatred seem infinite. The arguments are so repetitive and fruitless. As is true in all wars, including those depicted in pleasing good-vs-evil terms, atrocities end up being committed by all sides, leading one to want to disassociate oneself from all parties involved. It is just as untenable to defend the indiscriminate launching by Hamas of projectiles into Israeli neighborhoods as it is to defend the massive air bombing by Israel of what they have turned into an open-air prison that is designed to collectively punish hundreds of thousands of human beings.

Virtually everyone wishes the entire conflict would just go away. With the exception of extremists on both sides who benefit in various ways, nobody relishes having to become involved in any of this. It is exhausting, draining, soul-crushing, and miserable. Embracing "screw-both-sides" nihilism and doing nothing else is so tempting because it appears to provide relief from the burden of paying any further attention to the horrific violence or bearing responsibility for any of it.

 

...edit

 

So this "both-sides-are-hideous" mentality is not what drives the actions of the US government. Quite the contrary: the US government is as partisan and loyal a supporter of one side of this conflict as one can possibly be. So if people want to rail against anyone who has convictions about one side or the other - Pierce: "The only people who make me more ill than the two active sides in this endless slaughter are the people far from the killing grounds who are so very goddamn sure they know what to do . . . I hate the cheering squads over here today" - then the place to begin is with the US government, the Obama administration, whose unstinting, multi-faceted support for and enabling of Israel is central to all of this.

Pierce does say that "I wish American arms and American dollars weren't being used to demolish entire impoverished neighborhoods," but in the next breath asks: "People are waiting for the president to do something, but what is to be done?" But he answered his own question: the US need not be, and should not be, such an active, one-sided participant in this aggression. That one should vehemently condemn rocket attacks on civilians and bombs on Tel Aviv buses outside of an Israeli military facility does not mean sanctioning the years-long fueling of the Israeli side of this conflict by the US government.

If one wants to try to wash one's hands of this entire matter by declaring both sides equally culpable, that's fine. But doing so requires an acknowledgment that the US government is doing nothing of the sort. It is fueling, funding and feeding the Israeli war machine, and, with its own militaristic conduct, is legitimizing the premises of Israeli aggression.

 

 

continued here

 

 

  On 11/21/2012 at 5:52 PM, Iain C said:

  On 11/21/2012 at 5:03 PM, Alcofribas said:

to wrap up what we've learned here:

 

i have no idea what i'm talking about (specifically my information is six years old and sprinkled throughout with propaganda), Robbie is a fool, in the 70s cuba and the communists teamed up with arabs to attack israel via the un, there may be a need to rectify the historical record on the holocaust which task may or may not include the exposure of a possible worldwide jewish conspiracy, the french are racist, hamas is always using human shields which excuses idf killings of innocent civilians, israel has a right to defend itself and finally -- eugene is sure that i am happy when jews die.

 

did i miss anything? lush thread, would read again.

 

I think we can bring the Australians into this somehow.

done

http://youtu.be/LBsNaflL-Ck

that is a good article, and summarizes many things i could not put into words while reading this thread

thank you awe & gg

  On 11/21/2012 at 6:30 PM, Awepittance said:

  On 11/21/2012 at 5:55 PM, compson said:

If you genocide criers out there were right

 

you have the uncanny ability at finding stuff designed to take much needed empathy away from the Palestinian plight, and for that i congratulate you

cheers

Gotta keep the rigorous lush at full speed. I haven't fully delved into your posts. Just as you haven't fully responded to mine on the last page. So hold tight and I will arrange my full response.

  Quote

BREAKING NEWS: Hamas and Israel agree Gaza ceasefire at Cairo talks

 

Israel and the Hamas movement which governs Gaza have agreed a ceasefire to end a week of violence in which nearly 160 people have died, Egyptian and Hamas officials say.

 

It is intended to come into effect at 19:00 GMT (21:00 local time), the officials say. Similar predictions on Tuesday failed to produce a deal.

 

A bomb exploded on a bus in the Israeli city of Tel Aviv, leaving three people needing surgery.

 

At least 13 people were killed in Gaza.

 

The Egyptian foreign minister announced the ceasefire at a news conference in Cairo with US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who joined negotiations on Wednesday.

 

For the truce to hold, "the rocket attacks [from Gaza] must end and a broader calm must return," Mrs Clinton said.

 

Israel has accepted the deal, according to a statement released from the office of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

 

Mr Netanyahu consulted with US President Barack Obama before agreeing to the ceasefire.

 

Israel launched its current offensive a week ago with the killing of Hamas military leader Ahmed Jabari.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20436699