School Shooting in Connecticut

  On 12/18/2012 at 2:24 AM, MisterE said:

video games themselves cannot kill anyone

 

 

 

That's a popular misconception. Last month a copy of GTA:SA killed a drifter just outside of Austin. The mainstream media simply doesn't report this sort of stuff.

  On 12/18/2012 at 2:24 AM, MisterE said:

  On 12/18/2012 at 1:47 AM, sergeantk said:

  On 12/18/2012 at 1:43 AM, MisterE said:

it's the same idea but for some reason it's coming from mostly opposite sides of the political 'aisle'. and i see that as selfish hypocrisy from both sides.

Yes but no matter what video games can not be used to kill people. Not only that but if guns are harder to get then the acts of violence allegedly caused from video games would decrease anyways

video games themselves cannot kill anyone, no, but if it could be proven that games actually could influence kids and give them these ideas in the first place, well that would be more of a 'source' of the problem, wouldn't it? so the gun violence would then really be a symptom of a deeper issue, wouldn't it?

 

you take the guns away and then what? maybe they'd just run over some kids with their car, or stab their parents in their sleep, instead of shooting 20+ people in one go. do people forget that these kinds of rampage murders aren't the ONLY violent happenings that take place? they are just the ones with the biggest victim toll so they get national attention. hypothetically, if media could be shown to influence kids and push them closer towards voilence, rampage killings wouldn't be the only things it could possibly lead to. they're more extreme examples but they count for a tiny ass % of the overall murders/violent crimes. average the murders per year in this country down and you get somewhere around 40 a day, and that's just murder.

 

 

so again, we have the *possibility* that *maybe* video games/movies contribute to some of the people out there flipping out, losing their grip on reality, and doing some crazy shit, but you people advocating gun control aren't even interested in that, not one bit. i mean, it's completely absurd that things like 5hrs of TV/movies/video games a day might influence the psychology of a kid with a malleable, squishy little brain in their head, or that psychological issues might lead to this crazy shit that's going on, right? but hey, i like video games, so let's not even talk about THAT.

 

 

Maybe parents shouldn't let their kids enjoy adult entertainment?

 

I'm sorry i have no sympathy for parents who let their kids play fucking Grand theft Auto and watch movies like Crank, if your kids turns up to be a fucking maniac its your own fault, we have a rating system for a reason.

 

If you decide to have a kids its up to you how you want to raise it, if you think your 8 year old kid its mature enough to handle GTA fine by me, you made the kid its your decision but if for some reason that kids turns out to be a maniac don't fucking blame the game.

 

Just to clarify i'm not a gamer i couldn't care less if the ban video games since i dont play them but i just hate this idea that we need to be kid friendly and make the world kid-proof.

Edited December 18, 2012 by YO303

  On 12/18/2012 at 1:46 AM, Awepittance said:

  On 12/18/2012 at 1:42 AM, joshuatx said:

  On 12/17/2012 at 11:37 PM, Awepittance said:

very well said, and it could be argued pretty effectively that regardless of our involvement in the German fronts of WWII or not, Russia would have defeated them anyways (they fought Germany on 100 fronts vs our 10 fronts). Granted without our involvement it's hard to say who would have been able to pick up the slack with Japan, but the US did not defeat nazisim in my strong opinion. And even if it did everything you said still stands 100%

 

I agree, the impact Russia had fighting Germany can't be overstated. The most noticeable input the US had fighting Europe - especially early on - was in raw materials, new equipment, fuel, and food. That said the sheer number of causalities the USSR sustained compared to every other allied participant is staggering and utterly essential to defeating Nazi Germany. Good point about the Pacific, U.S. really became the backbone in that campaign, as much Australia fought hard (the Dutch on the other hand...:/ well to be fair they didn't wield much in manpower or resources) they couldn't sustain the same level of troops and naval forces. I suppose the better argument is to say America expedited the conclusion of the war. The nuclear bombings were a shameful decision driven by a concern of US casualties to come in a mainland invasion of Japan and strategic need to keep the USSR out of the Pacific campaign.

  On 12/18/2012 at 2:34 AM, LimpyLoo said:

  On 12/18/2012 at 2:24 AM, MisterE said:

video games themselves cannot kill anyone

 

 

 

That's a popular misconception. Last month a copy of GTA:SA killed a drifter just outside of Austin. The mainstream media simply doesn't report this sort of stuff.

 

fucking a' I had to re-read that before realizing it was absurb sarcasm lol

  On 12/17/2012 at 12:56 AM, MisterE said:

  Smettingham Rutherford IV said:

  MisterE said:

chicago is a great example of gun control, and how well it works to thwart gun violence. take a look.

 

blasted real world data!

 

D.C. still has its problems, but its greatly improved from a decade or two ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

well there is always the fact that there are going to be several things influencing crime rate at any given time.http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielfisher/2012/10/19/how-washington-d-c-got-off-the-most-dangerous-cities-list/

 

i guess forbes is considered to have somewhat of a conservative bias, so that should probably be considered, but i've seen the topic of gentrification brought up in other sources when talking about the violent crime rate dropping in DC. now, perhaps the gun control laws in DC contributed to the improvement, but the question is- if that's the case, why is chicago still a frickin' war zone? why is that, when it has been among the strictest places in the country with regard to gun control, for decades? if there is a correlation, why would it just not show up with chicago? strictest gun laws, one of the most dangerous cities. if i'm to assume that the improvement in DC is due to gun control, why isn't it working in chicago?

 

"research in city after city shows that gangs and similar criminal groups—drug crews and the like—are at the heart of homicide: groups collectively making up less than half of 1 percent of a city’s population are regularly associated with three quarters or so of all killings. And black men constitute about 6 percent of the population but around 40 percent of murder victims."

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/09/28/after-a-horrific-summer-of-murder-chicago-trying-a-bold-new-approach.html

  On 12/18/2012 at 2:53 AM, hautlle said:

And black men constitute about 6 percent of the population but around 40 percent of murder victims."

interesting that they don't frame it in terms of murder perpetrators. I guess that would just be too touchy.

  On 12/18/2012 at 2:01 AM, MisterE said:

i love how half these posts are devolving into a 'i love this country but here's a list of things about it that are so fucking awful, and why i hate it'

 

joshuatx's last post almost comes off like he's criticizing america just for never having been invaded. i get that he's really talking about how that fact has supposedly made us into these huge assholes, but the post just goes on talking about being invaded as if the fact that US hasn't ever been invaded is something we should be ashamed of. or like we owe the world something because of it. seriously, wtf is wrong with you people?

 

the only thing that would make you guys happy would be if america became europe part 2. how did you get brainwashed into thinking that that's what we as a country need to be? it blows my mind. europe is on the verge of crisis/crises all around, so clearly their policies just kick total ass huh. and as for the moral side of things-

one of you guys with this attitude, tell me a country that has no blood on their hands historically and i'll tell you why you're an idiot and then i'll list a bunch of fucked up shit in that country's past. wow so college professors are still filling kids' heads with that shit about america being the source of all the worlds evil huh? not surprised.

 

I don't wish ill on my country in any manner, even if it would "correct" our general attitudes and perspectives - whether it be a war or massive economic downturn that actually impacted ALL aspects of our economy and society. I hope we progress though honestly I'm not sure what will trigger that. My point is that there is a huge disconnect from our relative good fortune historically and the realities of what many other countries have experienced in the last century. We seem to be coasting right now in that good fortune. Are there things about Europe I like that aren't implemented here? Yes. But there are still things remarkable about America worthy of respect - our democracy, our diversity, the amount of innovation achieved here in technology, business, and in the arts. Even if they are just illusions now they are based in historical accomplishments. We're nonetheless in a lot of trouble in many aspects - the more reason I wish people would be a bit more open-minded and less selfish as citizens. There's a lot of stubborn, delusional, and ignorant citizens from just about every ideology and social class who are not willing to change or reflect on realities. Considering the wealth of isolated opinions and ideologies for people to choose from, there's no need to. That's what's crippling our country, and debate over how to react (or how not to react) to this shooting just highlights this dilemma.

 

As much as don't want flat-out say conservatives are particularly at fault in this attitude, they are very much the worst offenders regarding the lack of ANY efforts to reform gun laws. Today many gun-friendly Dems, many from the South or rural parts of the country, more than likely threw out their chances of maintaining high ratings from the NRA to say they are sincerely committed to legislative initiatives for Federal reforms on gun ownership - basic things like assault weapon bans or ammunition clip size limits. The GOP as of now has been collectively silent on the issue, though the right-wing talk radio have been pointing the finger at "liberals" for "politicizing the tragedy." I won't deny some liberals arguably are politicizing the shooting, but ironically conservatives are doing one better by politicizing their reactions, riling up their voter base with paranoia and misinformation, and then not doing one fucking constructive thing regarding the issue. I'm not even that fucking liberal myself, especially among other watmmers, but this is exactly the kind of bullshit that turns me off from Republicans and conservatives. It's hard for me to even find the most moderate and libertarian aspects of that political spectrum appealing at the moment.

Edited December 18, 2012 by joshuatx

  On 12/17/2012 at 8:56 PM, joshuatx said:

99% of the time the people who dance around the ideas of armed insurrections, the states versus federal government, secession of states from the U.S., etc are the very same people who go out of the way to express their support for our military, the most Federalized and bureaucratic and literal danger (in terms of force especially) to their individual rights. It's just not as easy nor acceptable to criticize the US armed forces as say, the EPA.

 

This is the part that kills me. There's so much denial about it.

*backs out of thread slowly*

  LimpyLoo said:

  The Overlook said:

Oh dear...

MisterE

 

 

 

i know omg there's a guy up in the thread who doesn't share the popularly held opinions of the day! whats up with that? us artists/original thinkers have to stick together!

i have an idea though- let's not actually confront him on anything he said and contest it, lets just express our self-assumed position of correctness and leave it at that. that'll show him!

  lumpenprol said:

lol, this coming from the guy who didn't realize China has become one of the most capitalist nations on earth.

oh shoot sorry, i keep forgetting, child labor = capitalism

 

china's brand of 'state-capitalism' is not 'capitalism' in the sense that you can call them 'one of the most capitalistic nations on earth'. 10s of thousands of fully government controlled companies are where all the wealth is coming from. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444549204578022710399534602.html

'capitalism' is based on individual citizens having a fair degree of economic freedom. for example, how possible is it for you to start a business and succeed? check out china's rank here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

  YO303 said:

Maybe parents shouldn't let their kids enjoy adult entertainment?

I'm sorry i have no sympathy for parents who let their kids play fucking Grand theft Auto and watch movies like Crank, if your kids turns up to be a fucking maniac its your own fault, we have a rating system for a reason.

way to completely ignore my point. this can be said about both the possible influence of media (not JUST games) on kids, AND gun ownership. if someone owns a gun, maybe their kid will use it to do harm. but then it's affecting someone else, and it might even be someone outside of that family like with this shooting. but the same exact thing can be said about the possible influence of media on those kids. you don't HAVE to have sympathy for those parents if their kids turn out to be maniacs. but what about their potential victims? again, the only difference, and the only reason you don't care about the possible influence of media/games on those kids as being a SOURCE for these fucked up urges, is because YOU like video games. you don't like guns so let's talk gun control instead.

I live in China and run my own business here. Try harder.

MisterE's emo-ness makes up for any factual shortcomings.

MisterEmo

  lumpenprol said:

I live in China and run my own business here. Try harder.

one person. what about the billion+ people there? what chance does a random citizen of china have at doing that, compared to any random american citizen, on average? i guess you are more of an expert opinion than the people who wrote those articles, or any of the political scientists who have declared china to operate under state-capitalism? the fact that their economy has grown might indicate a movement towards capitalism, from the earlier, soviet-based model, but the government still basically controls the economy so how can you call them one of the 'most capitalistic countries in the world'? the booming economy doesn't make that true in and of itself.

Here is an excellent article on the issue of the right to bear arms.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/the-freedom-of-an-armed-society/

popcorn is cool

Sorry, I'm acting like an idiot.

There's already been talk on the radio today about proposing a ban on assault weapons and magazines that exceed 10 rounds in capacity.
I honestly think an abrupt ban on all firearms would not go over smoothly, especially with citizens who rely on long guns for hunting. But the 10-round mag limit seems reasonable for civilians. This would make mass shootings for a lone gunman more difficult to execute, as ejecting an empty mag and inserting a full one would take roughly five seconds, give or take. At least that downtime would force the gunman to lower his guard more quickly and be more easily apprehended or neutralized.

Again, I own a .22 caliber rifle for recreational paper target shooting, but I have no need for more than ten rounds per magazine, let alone for any purpose beyond stated. If gun control is needed to reduce gun violence, then maybe realistic, gradual steps are better than radical, abrupt ones.

  On 12/18/2012 at 5:37 AM, ambermonk said:

Sorry, I'm acting like an idiot.

 

 

You've come to the right place

In Canada we have a five round max on semi-auto rifles, which is fine really. I definitely get that it would be totally great to be able to unload a 100 round drum mag at full/semi-auto, but lol there is no sense in it innit?

  On 12/18/2012 at 3:50 AM, MisterE said:

  lumpenprol said:

I live in China and run my own business here. Try harder.

one person. what about the billion+ people there? what chance does a random citizen of china have at doing that, compared to any random american citizen, on average? i guess you are more of an expert opinion than the people who wrote those articles, or any of the political scientists who have declared china to operate under state-capitalism? the fact that their economy has grown might indicate a movement towards capitalism, from the earlier, soviet-based model, but the government still basically controls the economy so how can you call them one of the 'most capitalistic countries in the world'? the booming economy doesn't make that true in and of itself.

by all means continue to talk out your ass if you want. I did look at the links you posted and find them curious, I have to wonder if there's some sort of anti-Chinese bias. Yes some of what they say is true, different industries have different levels of control and govt. oversight, typically based on how important they are seen to be to national security (eg., steel, coal, etc). But that doesn't mean the govt has the free market in lockdown or something. And the part about restricting foreign businesses is completely bizarre. Yes, there are some things that local businesses can do that foreign businesses can't (hence why joint ventures are necessary if you plan to sell anything directly to the Chinese public). But all you have to do is walk down the street to see a McDonalds, Starbucks, Pizza Hut, Haagen Dazs, etc on every other street corner, while VWs and BMWs whiz by, to see the lie in that reporting. It's some kind of weird scare mongering, and it doesn't make logical sense. If the govt. restricted the market so heavily, then how could China have possibly experienced such runaway growth over the past few decades? State run enterprises are rarely efficient. And how could it have risen meteorically to become the second largest *consumer* economy?

 

I do believe what it intimated in those articles will eventually come to pass, namely, China will suffer some serious growing pains in the future - primarily due to the widening gulf between the rich and poor, the lack of arable land, and the lack of oil resources. And I also believe the "Communist Party" will inevitably become more corrupt. But for the period I've lived here, from 2006 until about 2010, it had the perfect balance between relatively open-market capitalism and a lack of visible corruption. The tax code is clear and fair, the labor laws are enforced, the trains run on time, the cops are well trained and efficient, etc. Anyone can start a business who wants to (apart from myself, several of my employees have as well). It's not Latin America. I think what China is doesn't quite fit into any pre-existing Western framework for political-economic constructs. It was a pseudo-Communist state that threw open its doors to capitalism but didn't spiral down the toilet or get taken over by the mob like Russia (yet).

 

Another thought about the articles you linked to, how exactly does one measure the health or vitality of a capitalist economy? Is it by looking at the "whales" only (certain big industrial sectors) and seeing whether the govt has influence? Or is it looking more at the street level and seeing how many small businesses there are, and how much red tape there is for starting new businesses? If one takes the latter as the best indicator, then China is arguably more open-market than the US (where all sorts of regulations and red tape can make starting a small business very challenging)

 

Oh and the whole thing about child labor being rampant is ridiculous. Labor laws are more pro-employee in China than they are in most states in the US, I suspect. Do violations still happen? Yes, but they are getting increasingly infrequent. I have not heard of a case of a widespread child labor law violation since I got here. Incidentally, a lot of the assembly-line style cheapo production is in the process of moving out of China to Vietnam, Bangladesh, and elsewhere. Remember that recent clothing manufacturer fire that killed over 100 people? Bangladesh. Haven't heard of that in China. Mostly what you get here are mine collapses and things of that nature.

i dont feel the need to make a topic since this is highly relevant

 

man attemps to open fire on crowd at movie theatre

Edited December 18, 2012 by sergeantk

Wow.

from the comments:

 

"Another Spoiled Brat, Momma’s boy with a gun, ill-equipped to handle life’s most basic detours, like breaking up–pathetic."

 

 

 

 

Trust me guys, this ^ fascist mindset is the reason people shoot people up. In a world without sympathy and empathy for the weak, shootings are just the reverse characteristic response. The mindset is asking for it.

 

A socialized healthcare system would solve a lot of these problems. As it is, this will not happen, as America itself is ethically repugnant, cheering for the death penatly and denial of care.

 

As it is, I personally think the people with this mindset are equally repugnant as child killers. There is very little difference in how I feel about the Republicans and warmongers and how I do about the child shooters... except I actually hate the Republicnas more because they put on the pretense of being "normal." They are actually the most insane and fucked ones, the most deserving of the hate that we put on these shooters, who are just reacting to a disgusting and morally depraved society. It takes a new level of sanity to develop the kind of misanthropy these shooters have. They just go the wrong way.

 

Ah, but you see it in each and every situation. From the small to the large. The way we treat each other in threads plays into it. Every nook and cranny is interrelated.

 

But really, meaningless in the end. All opinions are incorrect and faulty. We're all just bullshitters at the core, the most ethically enraged opinions are driven by ignorance.

Edited December 18, 2012 by vamos scorcho