School Shooting in Connecticut

  On 12/16/2012 at 4:39 PM, YO303 said:

 

  On 12/16/2012 at 4:34 PM, The Overlook said:

It is a bit of an impossibly fucked up cultural canvas we present to kids in 2012.

 

Your average modern 8 year-old could access this story on their iPhone, then walk into their neighborhood video store and see this on the first shelf, as I did yesterday afternoon.

 

 

It's pretty fucking eery.

 

Fuck off, kids have always been exposed to violence since the dawn of time, the fact that we don't train 5 kids to kill people like we used to do is a step forward.

 

Millions of people play violent video games or watch violent movies and they don't shoot up schools. Don't blame art forms for the acts of a few unstable people.

 

Because I agree with you, I'll ignore the flame bait and instead give you a story.

Censorship or "It's the fault of video games!" was not the point I was making.

Read the words I posted. "Impossibly fucked up cultural canvas..." is not a stretch, by any means. It shouldn't take a 500 word essay to point out the oddity here.

Some WATMMers already may know this as I think I've posted about it before. I owned a video game store between 1998 and 2009 in Alaska. The model was buy, sell, rent, and trade console games. At the end of 1999, I set up 12 computers for pay by the hour LAN gaming. The usual suspects were installed: Diablo II, Age of Empires II, Quake III, Unreal Tournament, Counterstrike, etc.

In early 2000, the city of Fairbanks attempted to pass an ordinance that would forbid the sale of rated M-17 games to minors. My store was #1 on the target list of the Bible Baptist contingency in the interior of Alaska whose goals were to save their kiddies from another Columbine. This was directly in the wake of the hysteria revolving around school shootings. Two years earlier, a kid in Bethel, Alaska walked into school with a shotgun and murdered two popular high schoolers.

I contacted the ACLU and the Interactive Digital Software Association (now called the Entertainment Software Association) and pleaded my case. I was provided with free legal counsel from the ACLU and the IDSA flew a lawyer to Fairbanks to meet with me. At the city council meeting where the ordinance was considered, I presented all of the empirical evidence involving the lack of causal evidence between simulated and actual violence. I read from a ruling in Indianapolis where a similar ordinance was defeated by the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals. The judge's ruling in that case was succinct and harshly condemned the city council in Indianpolis for even attempting to pass such unprecedented anti-1st amendment legislation.

Needless to say, the ordinance in Fairbanks failed but not before I was presented to the town as a purveyor of filth and peddler of violent media. I maintain to this day that there is no causal link between simulated violence and real life violence, at least to the extent that television shows like Power Rangers have been linked with an increase in aggression among very select groups in some controversial (and contested) studies.

All of that said, I come to you WATMMers today not because I have changed my mind about violent video games. I am firmly Jungian in the belief that we all need to exercise our Shadow at times, take him for a stroll to kill virtual baddies or steal cars, etc. Transgressive humor and fantasy are an integral component in a healthy life. Yet, as I now have a 2 year-old daughter, I do indeed recognize the absurd contradiction we present to young people, especially at the age of pre-conventional and early conventional moral development. Our job as parents in the so-called "digital age" has never been more difficult.

Not sure wether I agree entirely. Most of the time the assumption seems to be if people want to kill others, gun control wont stop them. While that may be the case in some cases, it shouldn't be generalized. There's still a mistake being made in this line of thought, imo.

Who said these people were out to kill others?

It's what they did. But that doesn't directly say anything about their intentions. Perhaps it's even worse, in some cases you can't even talk about intentions anymore, but rather some primal subconscious soup of troubles and desires or whatever the hell these people may drive. I see events like these more like statements. Take Breivik, for example. Was he out to kill people? Or was he making a statement first and foremost?

The irony is that even from a mental health point of view, the first action the government should take, should be one in the gun control department. Especially from a mental health point of view. The "everybody has a right to bear arms" thing assumes rationality. It doesn't take into account human nature, but instead grants rights to everyone on the basis of some idealistic idea of how humans function. The current laws seem backwards in the sense that it assumes everyone is able to handle guns. And it should be reversed, imo: everyone who wants to handle guns should prove he/she could handle one. Just like driving a car.

And of course, another part of the solution has to deal with the treatment of mental illnesses.

I dunno. Just some silly ideas.

Also, it's fun to watch debates on gun control and put "weed" everywhere where "gun" is, if you know what I mean.

edit: this was not a response to the post I overlooked ;-p

@ Overlook

Fair enough, but that should be your job as a parent to keep your kid away from what you deemed not appropriate, we shouldn't kid-proof the world. There are a millions thing you can do to keep away kids from adult content but parents aren't even bothering and thats their fault not the content's fault. When a parent buys their 8 year old kid fucking Grand theft Auto its the parent fault and only the parents fault that the kid was exposed to that game.

As an adult men who has to work 5 days a week i want to have the freedom to enjoy the things i like without having the fear that one day those things might disappear because parents are not doing enough to keep their kids out of adult content entertainment.

if u replace the word gun with the word black u all sound like racists? it seem yanks cant discuss anything to do with guns without being fucking moron manchildren lol :(

lol

or simply replace it with kids. those darned kids always making noise.

  On 12/16/2012 at 5:31 PM, YO303 said:

@ Overlook

 

Fair enough, but that should be your job as a parent to keep your kid away from what you deemed not appropriate, we shouldn't kid-proof the world. There are a millions thing you can do to keep away kids from adult content but parents aren't even bothering and thats their fault not the content's fault. When a parent buys their 8 year old kid fucking Grand theft Auto its the parent fault and only the parents fault that the kid was exposed to that game.

 

As an adult men who has to work 5 days a week i want to have the freedom to enjoy the things i like without having the fear that one day those things might disappear because parents are not doing enough to keep their kids out of adult content entertainment.

You're a bit retarded, I think, and you sound like a character out of Idiocracy.

Once again a potential dialog becomes a bunch of monosyllabic grunting for fear of something being taken away, be it guns or porn or GTA.

"As an adult men who has to work 5 days a week..."

FLOL

Are you sitting alone in your semen-encrusted underwear as you post to WATMM right now? "Leave my gamez aloan! I'M BATIN!"

haha thanks for the name calling.

I don't even play/like video games (i only play fifa).

And what potential dialogue? i know how that dialogue will go because we've seen it before and i dont like where that dialogue leads.

I just don't buy into the whole "for the kids" argument, i don't want media (or any other aspect of life) to be censored because someone decided it was a good idea to have a kid and now they've become a judgmental and protective parent and everybody has to tip-toe around your new born kid. I didn't choose to have a kid, you did, its your job to raise it however you want not mine, i'll do my best to curve my behavior around kids but dont ask people to kid-proof the world because thats unfair to everybody else.

You don't know where that dialogue leads. Sometimes, dialogue is just that. After all, the making of meaning is a discursive process.

I'm not suggesting nor asking for legislation or censorship. If anything, I'm throwing a line out to fellow WATMMer Dads like Jules and Keltoi and Joyrex...like, how are we going to calibrate as parents? It's not enough, and it's naive to even suggest, that a parent can choose not to buy a violent video game for their 8 year-old and that's the end of it.

Here's the hypothetical question for anybody interested. I imagined, yesterday, that my daughter was old enough to see that Bodycount game on the shelf, and ask me about it. What if, to make matters more complicated, she were aware of the shooting in Connecticut? She could ask me some really hard fucking questions, no?

If that's a tiresome digression within the context of this thread, so be it, but don't get your callow youth panties in a wad thinking that I'm looking to take away anybody's porn, pot, guns, or games. That has fuck all to do with the point I've failed to make here!

Like i said before, i'll rather have the nation have an honest discussion about mental health than irrationally blaming it on stuff.

  On 12/16/2012 at 5:54 PM, YO303 said:

Like i said before, i'll rather have the nation have an honest discussion about mental health than irrationally blaming it on stuff.

As a guy who's dedicated a significant portion of his life studying media theory and as a guy married to a woman whose focus is attachment theory and early childhood development, I could not agree more.

Hence, the image I posted re: the accessibility of (mental) health care vs. the accessibility of assault rifles.

Nonetheless, this tragedy begets myriad conversations and I don't think I'm off track to suggest that strategies for parenting is at or near the top of the heap.

this thread: 0/10 lots of outrageous stupidity

bottom line this fucking piece of shit ruined xmas for the whole country

  On 12/16/2012 at 5:58 PM, The Overlook said:

  On 12/16/2012 at 5:54 PM, YO303 said:

Like i said before, i'll rather have the nation have an honest discussion about mental health than irrationally blaming it on stuff.

 

As a guy who's dedicated a significant portion of his life studying media theory and as a guy married to a woman whose focus is attachment theory and early childhood development, I could not agree more.

 

Hence, the image I posted re: the accessibility of (mental) health care vs. the accessibility of assault rifles.

 

Nonetheless, this tragedy begets myriad conversations and I don't think I'm off track to suggest that strategies for parenting is at or near the top of the heap.

yup. banning or restricting things can only help to a degree...its treatment without diagnosis based on real psychological symptoms.

but its also reasonable to question the effects of psychological problems in tandem with these obtainable experiences.

Someone in here or another thread talked about how people play CoD MW3 after watching a commercial where their favorite comedy celebrities are jumping around in full military gear shooting up baddies, right before the 6 o'clock news comes on and talks about soldiers and civilians dying horribly in the Afghan/Iraqi theaters. Yes, the video game in and of itself is not to blame, but in tandem with all of these manipulative marketive techniques and psychological exploitation, it is unsurprising that these things can emphasize disturbing tendencies otherwise a little more latent in the odd troubled teenager/young adult.

  On 12/16/2012 at 6:21 PM, phling said:

this thread: 0/10 lots of outrageous stupidity

and we thank you for your contribution

just to be clear before anyone shits their pants, no im not in favor of video game regulation, but the same premises are worth more than a brush away with the hand.

sorry, i did contribute on page 3 or something, the discussion must have derailed tremendously in the last couple of days.

i've got to say that i am deeply disappointed that there are supporters of gun ownership among the music makers.

  On 12/16/2012 at 6:33 PM, phling said:

sorry, i did contribute on page 3 or something, the discussion must have derailed tremendously in the last couple of days. i've got to say that i am deeply disappointed that there are supporters of gun ownership among the music makers.

???

from my count there was only one.

See, this is why guns shouldn't be allowed. People can make up stuff like rabbits. Before you know it, you're threatening someone without even knowing it. And then you wake up with an arrow in your knee.

;D

edit: added smiley to put the reaction in a 'certain' perspective

After 9+ pages of discussion, I have weighed the evidence carefully, and have determined that this is all due to a vast conspiracy perpetrated by the Illuminati.

I'm sure this is because of the wonders of capitalism and the economic principles behind reality.

*makes freemason sign with fingers*

Yes we shall report the Profane to the Appendant bodies in due time.

i've noticed 2 of my favorite eu countries don't have mass shootings -Italy and the netherlands

eh

yea

scratch that

http://www.channel4.com/news/italian-gunman-kills-two-on-shooting-spree

http://www.france24.com/en/20110410-ridderhof-shopping-mall-shooting-spree-dutch-shocked-netherlands-violence-gun

On a serious note though, I think it's odd his mother is talked about in the media as if some saint. I'm suspecting some kind of motherly dictator behind the front door though. Like she tried to raise a boy like a puppet, and got a devil in return.

Blame books! Blame music! Blame movies! Blame videogames!

Blame stuff!!

  On 12/16/2012 at 5:54 PM, The Overlook said:

You don't know where that dialogue leads. Sometimes, dialogue is just that. After all, the making of meaning is a discursive process.

 

I'm not suggesting nor asking for legislation or censorship. If anything, I'm throwing a line out to fellow WATMMer Dads like Jules and Keltoi and Joyrex...like, how are we going to calibrate as parents? It's not enough, and it's naive to even suggest, that a parent can choose not to buy a violent video game for their 8 year-old and that's the end of it.

 

Here's the hypothetical question for anybody interested. I imagined, yesterday, that my daughter was old enough to see that Bodycount game on the shelf, and ask me about it. What if, to make matters more complicated, she were aware of the shooting in Connecticut? She could ask me some really hard fucking questions, no?

My 8 year old daughter asks me hard questions all the time. Just try and answer them as honestly as you can. Sometimes you do have use the cop out line, "you're not old enough to understand it properly yet, but when you're ready, we'll talk about it." Like how my daughter plays minecraft, so right now I don't let her play on public servers. If you're worried about your kid getting influenced negatively from friends he/she has, tell them to always remember anytime they're not sure, or something doesn't fell right, they can ask you anything and you will try to answer or help them. (sorry for the subject/pronoun disagreement in there grammar nazis)

Parenting is at times both ridiculously easy and ridiculously hard.

Also an 8 year old shouldn't have an iPhone. For real.

Well, I stand by the argument that this is less of a gun issue and more of a mental health issue.

'K I'm done here

  On 12/16/2012 at 7:34 PM, ambermonk said:

Well, I stand by the argument that this is less of a gun issue and more of a mental health issue.

 

'K I'm done here

i think the majority of people here are in agreement.