A Civilized Discussion on Gender Issues

guys... it's jayZ.

I came across this while looking into the backgroudn to the Boston bombings and I think it applies to this thread.

"On March 10, 2011, Human Rights Watch reported that since Chechenization, the government has pushed for enforced Islamic dress code and other traditions which violently repress women.^[59] The president Ramzan Kadyrov is quoted as saying "I have the right to criticize my wife. She doesn’t. With us [in Chechen society], a wife is a housewife. A woman should know her place. A woman should give her love to us [men]... She would be [man’s] property. And the man is the owner. Here, if a woman does not behave properly, her husband, father, and brother are responsible. According to our tradition, if a woman fools around, her family members kill her... That’s how it happens, a brother kills his sister or a husband kills his wife... As a president, I cannot allow for them to kill. So, let women not wear shorts...".^[60] He has also openly defended honour killings on several occasions.^[61] All this is occurring despite being illegal under Russian law and international laws."

There are many places in the world where a woman is still property much like cattle or other livestock. I think it's easy to forget that this used to be the case around the world until relatively recently (maybe not the killing bit) and was only ended through womens sufferage under the banner of feminism. It is currently the case that the US is pro choice, however this could change depending on the government as their are many parties who are strongly religous and against this (calling it murder). Across the world in general women have far less access to education and are frequently forced into marriage at a young age, again as property of a man.

It's true that women are not the only victims of rape, however the evidence you provided still points to men as the key perpetrators.

But that's not what this is about is it Zeff?

Describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:06 PM, MadameChaos said:

There are many places in the world where a woman is still property much like cattle or other livestock. I think it's easy to forget that this used to be the case around the world until relatively recently (maybe not the killing bit) and was only ended through womens sufferage under the banner of feminism. It is currently the case that the US is pro choice, however this could change depending on the government as their are many parties who are strongly religous and against this (calling it murder). Across the world in general women have far less access to education and are frequently forced into marriage at a young age, again as property of a man.

 

Actually MadameC if you spend any time reading "men's rights" material on the Internet, you'll see that for most of these guys the ultimate dream is finding a "non-Westernised" woman, generally from Asia.

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:06 PM, MadameChaos said:

 

Describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.

LOL

  On 4/19/2013 at 8:11 AM, Adjective said:

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 8:05 AM, Zeffolia said:

How can I have woman issues when I don't even have any women

 

what if he's gay ?

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:12 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 8:11 AM, Adjective said:

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 8:05 AM, Zeffolia said:

How can I have woman issues when I don't even have any women

 

what if he's gay ?

 

or his freezer's empty?

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:13 PM, keltoi said:

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:12 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 8:11 AM, Adjective said:

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 8:05 AM, Zeffolia said:

How can I have woman issues when I don't even have any women

 

what if he's gay ?

 

 

or his freezer's empty?

 

maybe he has an infuriatingly large penis.

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:26 PM, messiaen said:

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:13 PM, keltoi said:

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:12 PM, eugene said:

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 8:11 AM, Adjective said:

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 8:05 AM, Zeffolia said:

How can I have woman issues when I don't even have any women

 

what if he's gay ?

 

 

or his freezer's empty?

 

maybe he has an infuriatingly large penis.

 

This is my problem thank you for saying it without me having to.

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:10 PM, Iain C said:

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:06 PM, MadameChaos said:

There are many places in the world where a woman is still property much like cattle or other livestock. I think it's easy to forget that this used to be the case around the world until relatively recently (maybe not the killing bit) and was only ended through womens sufferage under the banner of feminism. It is currently the case that the US is pro choice, however this could change depending on the government as their are many parties who are strongly religous and against this (calling it murder). Across the world in general women have far less access to education and are frequently forced into marriage at a young age, again as property of a man.

 

 

 

Actually MadameC if you spend any time reading "men's rights" material on the Internet, you'll see that for most of these guys the ultimate dream is finding a "non-Westernised" woman, generally from Asia.

 

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:06 PM, MadameChaos said:

 

Describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.

 

LOL

 

This is a completely unfounded claim

Not all MRAs are neckbeard anime lovers.

Trust me when I say I don't like Asians. Well I like them I don't have anything against them lol but I don't have some huge fetish for them like a lot of guys do, and I'm not particularly any more attracted to them than anyone else.

  On 4/19/2013 at 3:06 PM, MadameChaos said:

I came across this while looking into the backgroudn to the Boston bombings and I think it applies to this thread.

 

"On March 10, 2011, Human Rights Watch reported that since Chechenization, the government has pushed for enforced Islamic dress code and other traditions which violently repress women.^[59] The president Ramzan Kadyrov is quoted as saying "I have the right to criticize my wife. She doesn’t. With us [in Chechen society], a wife is a housewife. A woman should know her place. A woman should give her love to us [men]... She would be [man’s] property. And the man is the owner. Here, if a woman does not behave properly, her husband, father, and brother are responsible. According to our tradition, if a woman fools around, her family members kill her... That’s how it happens, a brother kills his sister or a husband kills his wife... As a president, I cannot allow for them to kill. So, let women not wear shorts...".^[60] He has also openly defended honour killings on several occasions.^[61] All this is occurring despite being illegal under Russian law and international laws."

 

There are many places in the world where a woman is still property much like cattle or other livestock. I think it's easy to forget that this used to be the case around the world until relatively recently (maybe not the killing bit) and was only ended through womens sufferage under the banner of feminism. It is currently the case that the US is pro choice, however this could change depending on the government as their are many parties who are strongly religous and against this (calling it murder). Across the world in general women have far less access to education and are frequently forced into marriage at a young age, again as property of a man.

 

It's true that women are not the only victims of rape, however the evidence you provided still points to men as the key perpetrators.

 

But that's not what this is about is it Zeff?

 

Describe in single words only the good things that come into your mind about... your mother.

Of course in some areas of the world it's relevant, but in the US and other modernized countries it isn't. Take Sweden for example. It's a perfect case of Feminism gone wrong.

The veils and Hijabs and other ethnic wear are often viewed as the ultimate form of oppression by Western culture, but that's a very narrow and bigoted view. Many women wear them with pride and take them as a form of honour that they don't dress the way Western women do, and when given the chance to change they choose not to because that is simply what they know and like.

There was an interesting study on the issue which exposed the extreme Western unfounded arrogance on the issue which I will link here if anyone is interested in reading it.

Look what I just found. Does this offend you?

  Quote

CAUCASIAN PERSONS THEFT HELPLINE

The Caucasion Person's Theft Helpline is a 24 hour service. This service provides support and counselling for Caucasion people experiencing a loss of property. This includes phone counselling, information and advice, referral to local advocacy and support services, liaison with police if necessary and support in attempting to reclaim lost valuables.

Telephone (08) 9223 1188

Free call 1800 007 339

AFRICAN AMERICAN PERSONS THEFT HELPLINE

The African American Person's Theft Helpline is a state wide 24 hour service. This service provides counselling for African American people who are concerned about becoming thieves. The service can provide telephone counselling and information and referral to on going face to face services if required.

Telephone (08) 9223 1199

Free call 1800 000 599

Do you think that is an offensive quote? Good. Because I flipped the situation around and it's not what you think it is. This was originally a Domestic Violence Helpline website.

Here's the original:

  Quote

WOMEN’S DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HELPLINE

The Women’s Domestic Violence Helpline is a 24 hour service. This service provides support and counselling for women experiencing family and domestic violence. This includes phone counselling, information and advice, referral to local advocacy and support services, liaison with police if necessary and support in escaping situations of family and domestic violence. The service can refer women to safe accommodation if required.

Telephone (08) 9223 1188

Free call 1800 007 339

MEN’S DOMESTIC VIOLENCE HELPLINE

The Men’s Domestic Violence Helpline is a state wide 24 hour service. This service provides counselling for men who are concerned about becoming violent or abusive. The service can provide telephone counselling and information and referral to on going face to face services if required.

Telephone (08) 9223 1199

Free call 1800 000 599

http://www.dcp.wa.gov.au/crisisandemergency/pages/domesticviolencehelplines.aspx

Surprised? Ashamed of the fact that the first quote is entirely offensive and no organization would ever think of posting it, yet the second is completely acceptable and applauded by many? This is an Australian government website.

That's misandry in action.

Discriminating against groups of people is wrong, period. Yet it's okay to do that against men apparently. Men are literally the only group who it is almost universally okay to discriminate against and many liberal groups won't say a word about it. Patriarchy hah?

lol it is Australia after all.

*please don't hurt me WATMM Aussies*

What offends me is that you wrote 'Caucasion.'

discrimination: all well and good until it happens to me and my peers .

  On 4/20/2013 at 6:19 AM, chenGOD said:

discrimination: all well and good until it happens to me and my peers .

How does anything I said imply that

  Quote

[thread] needs moar quote boxes

  Quote

  On 4/20/2013 at 7:03 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 4/20/2013 at 6:19 AM, chenGOD said:

 

discrimination: all well and good until it happens to me and my peers .

How does anything I said imply that

do you honestly, i mean honestly, believe that white males are victims of discrimination in nations like America, Canada, Australia, England, etc...?

  On 4/20/2013 at 8:01 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 4/20/2013 at 7:03 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 4/20/2013 at 6:19 AM, chenGOD said:

discrimination: all well and good until it happens to me and my peers .

How does anything I said imply that

do you honestly, i mean honestly, believe that white males are victims of discrimination in nations like America, Canada, Australia, England, etc...?

 

Yes, they obviously are

There are countless instances of double standards, where treatment viewed as discrimination against one group (minorities and women) isn't viewed as discrimination against men even though it really is.

That above website I posted is discrimination against men, plain and simple. If similar were said about any other minority or about women then it would be viewed as discrimination by just about everyone and outrage would ensue, but because it's about males nobody cares. That doesn't mean it's still not discrimination though.

Furthermore I never said anything about white males in particular being discriminated against. I just said males. Don't put words in my mouth.

Apologies for the white males comment, I was speaking from my assumption that as a WATMMer the odds on you being a white male are pretty high.

The site you listed above is discriminatory, no doubt about it. It is important of course to remember that discrimination does not always necessarily have a negative connotation. In this case for example, it is simply identifying the differences - namely that due to physical abuse, the odds of women being severely injured or killed at the hands of men is much stronger simply due to biological factors (men are stronger than women - most of the time).

Basically from where I'm standing, this men's rights movement is very petty and furthers the debasement of men. It seems to be saying that when women are given an equal shot, it's not fair anymore. The wage gap myth for example - even if all of the info posted were true, women still earn less than men - even if the difference is not as much as is commonly thought. Physical abuse - women might initiate more incidences (although the data you've presented is certainly not conclusive, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for argument's sake), but the end result is fatal for women at a much higher rate. Your assertions of parental responsibility don't merit consideration - abortion is not a decision made lightly, and stealing sperm from garbage??

Whereas men have faced virtually no meaningful discrimination through history, women have been treated as chattel, worked for lower wages since the idea of wage labour was introduced, had to fight for the right to vote, the list could go on..

Basically - the men's rights movement is based on perceived slights that a bunch of petty wankers with low self-esteem and a sense of entitlement think they are being subjected to.

  On 4/20/2013 at 10:13 AM, chenGOD said:

the men's rights movement is based on perceived slights that a bunch of petty wankers with low self-esteem and a sense of entitlement think they are being subjected to.

Say what you will Zeff, but I'm inclined to agree with this statement.

Don't be ridiculous

Men were and still are treated as chattel. It wasn't women working in the mines or being buried in the Hoover Dam and Great Wall of China was it?

And in the US women did not work for the right to vote, they were given it after protesting. Men had to EARN the right to vote, and still do today!

Women are the only gender that is born with the right to vote at age 18 in the US

Men have to earn it through registration with the selective services, and if they don't they will be heavily fined and jailed

And your wanton disregard for all the institutionalized sexism against men being insignificant is extremely biased and unfounded. Any of these qualities, if attributed to women, would be viewed as sexism by you and most people no doubt

Legal disadvantages men face are basically petty complaints in your eyes? That's a ridiculous position to hold and in comparison to many of the views feminists hold so dear (objectification through media) it is far less petty.

If a man accidentally gets a woman pregnant he has absolutely NO legal say in whether he will be responsible for that child for the next 18 years. She has ALL the say. That is objectively institutionalized legal sexism, period. And to deny this is petty and biased in favor of feminism.

  On 4/20/2013 at 11:12 AM, ambermonk said:

 

  On 4/20/2013 at 10:13 AM, chenGOD said:

the women's rights movement is based on perceived slights that a bunch of bitchy cunts with low self-esteem and a sense of entitlement think they are being subjected to.

Say what you will Zeff, but I'm inclined to agree with this statement.

 

Yeah me too.

how about you just deal with it. men have given women a systematically fuckin shitty time, for about the last 2000 years. even if what you are saying is slightly true (i dont believe your arguement for shit by the way, but im not gonna waste my time argueing with you) then maybe its about fuckin time men got their arses handed to them on a cream platter.

tl dr; = deal with it and stop being a wee fuckin bitch

  On 4/20/2013 at 11:17 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 4/20/2013 at 11:12 AM, ambermonk said:

 

  On 4/20/2013 at 10:13 AM, chenGOD said:

the women's rights movement is based on perceived slights that a bunch of bitchy cunts with low self-esteem and a sense of entitlement think they are being subjected to.

Say what you will Zeff, but I'm inclined to agree with this statement.

 

Yeah me too.

I see what you did there.

  On 4/20/2013 at 11:17 AM, Zeffolia said:

Don't be ridiculous

 

Men were and still are treated as chattel. It wasn't women working in the mines or being buried in the Hoover Dam and Great Wall of China was it?

 

And in the US women did not work for the right to vote, they were given it after protesting. Men had to EARN the right to vote, and still do today!

 

Women are the only gender that is born with the right to vote at age 18 in the US

 

Men have to earn it through registration with the selective services, and if they don't they will be heavily fined and jailed

 

And your wanton disregard for all the institutionalized sexism against men being insignificant is extremely biased and unfounded. Any of these qualities, if attributed to women, would be viewed as sexism by you and most people no doubt

 

Legal disadvantages men face are basically petty complaints in your eyes? That's a ridiculous position to hold and in comparison to many of the views feminists hold so dear (objectification through media) it is far less petty.

 

If a man accidentally gets a woman pregnant he has absolutely NO legal say in whether he will be responsible for that child for the next 18 years. She has ALL the say. That is objectively institutionalized legal sexism, period. And to deny this is petty and biased in favor of feminism.

 

  On 4/20/2013 at 11:12 AM, ambermonk said:

 

  On 4/20/2013 at 10:13 AM, chenGOD said:

the women's rights movement is based on perceived slights that a bunch of bitchy cunts with low self-esteem and a sense of entitlement think they are being subjected to.

Say what you will Zeff, but I'm inclined to agree with this statement.

 

Yeah me too.

LOL women were busy being kept in the house. Do you know what chattel means?

You should read up on the history of the right to vote:

http://www.iwantmyvote.com/recount/history/

Men have to register with selective service regardless of their desire to vote - if you have issue with that, you should address that particular issue!

Be responsible with your johnson and choosing your partners!

What legal disadvantages? what institutionalized sexism? You haven't presented any yet.

edit: lol at women's perceived slights. black men in america could vote before women.

lets just say everyone on earth is a jerk that feels entitled

doesn't matter if you have poon, peen, or in between

  On 4/20/2013 at 11:20 AM, messiaen said:

how about you just deal with it. men have given women a systematically fuckin shitty time, for about the last 2000 years. even if what you are saying is slightly true (i dont believe your arguement for shit by the way, but im not gonna waste my time argueing with you) then maybe its about fuckin time men got their arses handed to them on a cream platter.

 

 

 

tl dr; = deal with it and stop being a wee fuckin bitch

"Deal with it"

"The actions of your demographic in the past mean you deserve retribution in the present"

"I don't believe you"

Wow aren't you a real thinker