A Civilized Discussion on Gender Issues

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:52 AM, Iain C said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:46 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

 

Why is it impossible for you to maintain civility and keep calm? Do you verbally abuse your significant other?

 

Hatred of liberal rationality/civility fetishists like you is like Ready Brek to me.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

You should go get your head checked again. A lot of times people who suffer trauma to the head experience irritability and mood swings. If you are implying that you are somehow capable of easily eating me up like breakfast you are very very wrong.

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:53 AM, rixxx said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:50 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:45 AM, rixxx said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:38 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:11 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:08 AM, encey said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 12:51 AM, Zeffolia said:

I didn't even mention feminism in my response to his post

 

I simply said that males being a victim of rape is more of a problem than women being the victims of rape, since the majority of rape victims are males

 

That's fine, as long as 'more of a problem' = 'happens more often.' But where I can't go along with you is in the broader context of your claims that there is not a wage gap and, implicitly, that women are systematically disempowered or disenfranchised in the workplace. You might not be meaning to say that 'more men raped than women' implies 'men are in a worse social position than women,' but your making both arguments together suggests you think they go together, which maybe one thing people are resisting so strongly here (since they have nothing to do with each other).

 

What are these broader implications?

 

If anything men are being disenfranchised from the work force with the high potential for sexual harassment charges being enforced upon men

 

Women entered a male dominated environment of those careers and forced men to change the way they are to suit their needs, rather than women themselves changing to fit the environment.

 

 

Oh snap i just saw this - seriously? Yeah those damn women, forcing men to stop harassing them sexually. Shit, if only we could go back to the good old days where men could just grab a chick by the hair, drag her back to the cave and have his way with her.

 

 

"I did actually post about this in that thread about 'social issues threads', you obviously wouldn't like my statement on the issue because of course in your opinion personal experiences dont count. Here's my post :

 

 

I used to work in a really male orientated workplace (there were women in the office but it was above a warehouse that I had to liaise with daily) now, I had to put up with men shouting stuff, constant glares, a manager whom persisted in advancing on me via our skype contact (we all used skype to contact people in the company etc)

 

I did have a fantastic boss who did tell the manager in question off for his behaviour, however the way many men in the workplace judge women is by their looks/sexual appeal etc. This is also an issue when a woman walks down a road, I really would like to know how you would feel about walking along a road and have a man, in a car roll up beside you and ask you to get in his car or shout inappropriate stuff to you. This is why there has been a lot of 'ads' calling for people to stop this behaviour and to also teach young boys how to behave appropriately.

 

Feminism is about equality for everyone- for people to not have to feel scared about 'that creepy guy in the office' or walking down a dark ally way.

 

but you know what Zeffolia, I don't doubt you'll ignore my view and that's fine but remember when someone states personal reasons for a cause, you better respect that person because you have no idea about the shit they've had to deal with because of your beliefs."

 

 

Stuff like this happens to everyone that doesn't maintain the "norm" people want or expect of them. It is a sad thing about society in general. I've experienced discrimination for very minor things like wanting to wear slimmer jeans than normals do.

 

 

 

Yeah, but Im sure you didn't fear for your life.... No you're right I should have been a good girl and got in the car with the scary man.

 

Whoa, I sympathize with the female experience in our society. If I had my way changes would be implemented to help educate school children about respecting people, their differences, and their rights as human beings. I have been in experiences where I've felt, uncomfortable, been physically threatened, or judged based on my not being a typical "man".

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:54 AM, Zeffolia said:

And my point about sexual harassment in the workplace alienating men from their jobs was because often even a false accusation can get them fired

 

Women wield immense unearned power. They can falsely accuse a man of raping or sexually harassing them and his life will be ruined

 

Even false accusations hold consequences for men.

 

I am not saying true accusations aren't warranted but the fact that even false ones come with severe consequences proves that this power women hold in the ability to accuse is unjust.

 

And all of these other sarcastic offshoots are really unnecessary

 

I never claimed it's okay to harass women or tell them to get into your car and whatnot.

eh, I don't know man. Most rape accusations are handled very appropriately in my experience.

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:54 AM, luke viia said:

I think dudes should have to pay child support if they have a child and they wish they hadn't and also can't convince the female parent to have an abortion/adoption. That doesn't seem like discrimination at all, more-so just responsibility. I also think having children should be taken more seriously by everyone involved, with sex for all intensive purposes being irregardless. To cite my opinions on this matter, I would like to point everyone to the google search "too many babies + watmm.com."

I agree. If you have sex you are responsible for the outcome.

My outward appearance has definitely made my life harder, and possibly compromised my career is some ways. I do a good job of making myself useful, and I generally give my employers a feeling of my being indispensable. I'm smart, and lucky. The thing is I would look way weirder if I didn't fear that I wouldn't even be able to get a decent paying job, get assaulted, or bothered.

  Quote

I agree. If you have sex you are responsible for the outcome.

Women aren't

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:18 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  Quote

I agree. If you have sex you are responsible for the outcome.

 

Women aren't

 

Why do you say that?

Feminists are women trying to be men but in an illogical way; instead of trying to become perfect ladies, earning the right
to be a man in the Being/soul's next lifetime.

Thomas
16:1 Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go out from among us, because women are not worthy of the Life.
16:2 Jesus said: See, I shall lead her, so that I will make her male, that she too may become a Living spirit, resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:20 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:18 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  Quote

I agree. If you have sex you are responsible for the outcome.

 

Women aren't

 

 

Why do you say that?

 

They can avoid parental responsibility where as men can't. Period, they cannot. Even abstinence does not guarantee a man won't be thrust into a parental position.

For instance, the only birth control men can use are abstinence and a condom. But those aren't even 100% effective

-Abstinence - not effective, she can steal his sperm out of the garbage after he masturbated and get herself pregnant, and he will be held responsible for the child

-Condom - not effective, they can break

But women have those options men do and more

-Abstinence - effective unless she is raped, in which case she can abort so still effective

-Condom - she can force him to wear it and even if it breaks she can abort

-The pill - the chance of pregnancy on the pill is minuscule, and even if it happens she can abort

-Abortion

It is impossible for women to be forced into parental roles because of abortion rights alone. But they have other rights as well for instance putting the child up for adoption which they sometimes do without the father's consent

So tl;dr

-Women are guaranteed never to be forced into parental responsibilities

-Men can never guarantee they won't be forced into parental responsibilities. Even abstinence isn't 100% effective

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:25 AM, HoA said:

Feminists are women trying to be men but in an illogical way; instead of trying to become perfect ladies, earning the right

to be a man in the Being/soul's next lifetime.

 

Thomas

16:1 Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go out from among us, because women are not worthy of the Life.

16:2 Jesus said: See, I shall lead her, so that I will make her male, that she too may become a Living spirit, resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

lol

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:27 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:20 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:18 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  Quote

I agree. If you have sex you are responsible for the outcome.

 

Women aren't

 

 

Why do you say that?

 

They can avoid parental responsibility where as men can't. Period, they cannot. Even abstinence does not guarantee a man won't be thrust into a parental position.

 

For instance, the only birth control men can use are abstinence and a condom. But those aren't even 100% effective

-Abstinence - not effective, she can steal his sperm out of the garbage after he masturbated and get herself pregnant, and he will be held responsible for the child

-Condom - not effective, they can break

 

But women have those options men do and more

-Abstinence - effective unless she is raped, in which case she can abort so still effective

-Condom - she can force him to wear it and even if it breaks she can abort

-The pill - the chance of pregnancy on the pill is minuscule, and even if it happens she can abort

-Abortion

 

It is impossible for women to be forced into parental roles because of abortion rights alone. But they have other rights as well for instance putting the child up for adoption which they sometimes do without the father's consent

 

So tl;dr

-Women are guaranteed never to be forced into parental responsibilities

-Men can never guarantee they won't be forced into parental responsibilities. Even abstinence isn't 100% effective

 

Firstly, I don't think stealing trash sperm is relevant to this debate. The instance of that occurring or even being possible is probably in the .10 percentile.

So, in almost all instances barring some crazy lady trash can sperm stealing, which by the way, is why you do it in the shower so she has to use a straw down the drain. This is irrelevant.

So, abstinence is effective.

Condoms, shouldn't break if you know what you are doing. If they break that is user error. Secondly, you are actively deciding to take the risk that you might get the girl pregnant if you engage in sex with a condom. The condom merely lowers the chances of a pregnancy. Therefore, you are responsible for your actions and the decisions you made.

Also, there are people trying to take away women's rights to abort even in the event of a rape, so in this situation women's rights are under attack and need to be defended.

If a father's child is put up for adoption I feel pretty confident that he would be allowed to keep it if he is a fit guardian.

The moral of the story is? Don't sleep with crazy and bad people.

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:25 AM, HoA said:

Feminists are women trying to be men but in an illogical way; instead of trying to become perfect ladies, earning the right

to be a man in the Being/soul's next lifetime.

 

Thomas

16:1 Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go out from among us, because women are not worthy of the Life.

16:2 Jesus said: See, I shall lead her, so that I will make her male, that she too may become a Living spirit, resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

What...the..

I'm at least glad you are bringing rationality into this debate.

femifascist apologists, wake up

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:30 AM, usagi said:

Simon Peter sounds like a dick

source?

mmmm...melanie laurent

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:38 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:27 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:20 AM, AdieuErsatzEnnui said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:18 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  Quote

I agree. If you have sex you are responsible for the outcome.

 

Women aren't

 

 

Why do you say that?

 

They can avoid parental responsibility where as men can't. Period, they cannot. Even abstinence does not guarantee a man won't be thrust into a parental position.

 

For instance, the only birth control men can use are abstinence and a condom. But those aren't even 100% effective

-Abstinence - not effective, she can steal his sperm out of the garbage after he masturbated and get herself pregnant, and he will be held responsible for the child

-Condom - not effective, they can break

 

But women have those options men do and more

-Abstinence - effective unless she is raped, in which case she can abort so still effective

-Condom - she can force him to wear it and even if it breaks she can abort

-The pill - the chance of pregnancy on the pill is minuscule, and even if it happens she can abort

-Abortion

 

It is impossible for women to be forced into parental roles because of abortion rights alone. But they have other rights as well for instance putting the child up for adoption which they sometimes do without the father's consent

 

So tl;dr

-Women are guaranteed never to be forced into parental responsibilities

-Men can never guarantee they won't be forced into parental responsibilities. Even abstinence isn't 100% effective

 

 

Firstly, I don't think stealing trash sperm is relevant to this debate. The instance of that occurring or even being possible is probably in the .10 percentile.

 

So, in almost all instances barring some crazy lady trash can sperm stealing, which by the way, is why you do it in the shower so she has to use a straw down the drain. This is irrelevant.

 

So, abstinence is effective.

 

Condoms, shouldn't break if you know what you are doing. If they break that is user error. Secondly, you are actively deciding to take the risk that you might get the girl pregnant if you engage in sex with a condom. The condom merely lowers the chances of a pregnancy. Therefore, you are responsible for your actions and the decisions you made.

 

Also, there are people trying to take away women's rights to abort even in the event of a rape, so in this situation women's rights are under attack and need to be defended.

 

If a father's child is put up for adoption I feel pretty confident that he would be allowed to keep it if he is a fit guardian.

 

The moral of the story is? Don't sleep with crazy and bad people.

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:25 AM, HoA said:

Feminists are women trying to be men but in an illogical way; instead of trying to become perfect ladies, earning the right

to be a man in the Being/soul's next lifetime.

 

Thomas

16:1 Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go out from among us, because women are not worthy of the Life.

16:2 Jesus said: See, I shall lead her, so that I will make her male, that she too may become a Living spirit, resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

What...the..

 

I'm at least glad you are bringing rationality into this debate.

 

The legal inequality is there

Whether it can be avoided by being careful is irrelevant

It is possible for men to be forced into responsibility for a child that they did not want

It is not possible for women.

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:27 AM, Zeffolia said:

Abstinence - not effective, she can steal his sperm out of the garbage after he masturbated and get herself pregnant, and he will be held responsible for the child

holy. mother. of. lol.

  On 4/17/2013 at 3:35 AM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:27 AM, Zeffolia said:

Abstinence - not effective, she can steal his sperm out of the garbage after he masturbated and get herself pregnant, and he will be held responsible for the child

holy. mother. of. lol.

 

my WATMM Troll Detector^TM is going batshit

  On 4/17/2013 at 3:35 AM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:27 AM, Zeffolia said:

Abstinence - not effective, she can steal his sperm out of the garbage after he masturbated and get herself pregnant, and he will be held responsible for the child

holy. mother. of. lol.

 

Why is this funny it's a serious issue and has happened to many men before

College and professional sports players are instructed to always make sure they dispose of their condoms in a highly safe and clean way to make absolutely sure that women won't impregnate themselves from the sperm and try to get child support payments off their high class salary.

This isn't funny.

  On 4/17/2013 at 3:38 AM, LimpyLoo said:

my WATMM Troll Detector^TM is going batshit

You're a moron who thinks he's funnier than he really is.

As a professional, unionized Trash Sperm Acquisition Manager, I take offense at that.

  On 4/17/2013 at 3:39 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 3:35 AM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:27 AM, Zeffolia said:

Abstinence - not effective, she can steal his sperm out of the garbage after he masturbated and get herself pregnant, and he will be held responsible for the child

holy. mother. of. lol.

 

Why is this funny it's a serious issue and has happened to many men before

 

College and professional sports players are instructed to always make sure they dispose of their condoms in a highly safe and clean way to make absolutely sure that women won't impregnate themselves from the sperm and try to get child support payments off their high class salary.

 

This isn't funny.

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 3:38 AM, LimpyLoo said:

my WATMM Troll Detector^TM is going batshit

You're a moron who thinks he's funnier than he really is.

 

I'm not sure if you've noticed but nobody likes you and your misogynist bullshit

feel free to delete your account and then slurp the sweat off my ballsack

  On 4/17/2013 at 3:43 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 3:39 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 3:35 AM, Alcofribas said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:27 AM, Zeffolia said:

Abstinence - not effective, she can steal his sperm out of the garbage after he masturbated and get herself pregnant, and he will be held responsible for the child

holy. mother. of. lol.

 

Why is this funny it's a serious issue and has happened to many men before

 

College and professional sports players are instructed to always make sure they dispose of their condoms in a highly safe and clean way to make absolutely sure that women won't impregnate themselves from the sperm and try to get child support payments off their high class salary.

 

This isn't funny.

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 3:38 AM, LimpyLoo said:

my WATMM Troll Detector^TM is going batshit

You're a moron who thinks he's funnier than he really is.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure if you've noticed but nobody likes you and your misogynist bullshit

 

feel free to delete your account and then slurp the sweat off my ballsack

 

I'm not sure if you've noticed but I don't give a shit whether anyone likes me. And I'm not a misogynist I support equal rights for women. I just also support equal responsibilities.

afaik i usually place all my cum drops on scientifically sterilized glass slides which are carefully frozen and placed in trash cans throughout the city labelled "for women <3 alco" with my social security and phone numbers.

@ lump

@ Alco !

And, we wish everyone had read Frommer's "Refuse Zygote Disposal Guide" as closely as you apparently have - thanks, and spread the word!

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:25 AM, HoA said:

Feminists are women trying to be men but in an illogical way; instead of trying to become perfect ladies, earning the right

to be a man in the Being/soul's next lifetime.

 

Thomas

16:1 Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go out from among us, because women are not worthy of the Life.

16:2 Jesus said: See, I shall lead her, so that I will make her male, that she too may become a Living spirit, resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

  On 4/17/2013 at 4:12 AM, eugene said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 2:25 AM, HoA said:

Feminists are women trying to be men but in an illogical way; instead of trying to become perfect ladies, earning the right

to be a man in the Being/soul's next lifetime.

 

Thomas

16:1 Simon Peter said to them: Let Mary go out from among us, because women are not worthy of the Life.

16:2 Jesus said: See, I shall lead her, so that I will make her male, that she too may become a Living spirit, resembling you males. For every woman who makes herself male will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

hey no reaction gifs

take that person's post seriously (as per order of the thread title)

I say old chap, women be shoppin', eh wot?

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:47 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:33 AM, eugene said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:11 AM, Zeffolia said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 1:08 AM, encey said:

 

  On 4/17/2013 at 12:51 AM, Zeffolia said:

I didn't even mention feminism in my response to his post

 

I simply said that males being a victim of rape is more of a problem than women being the victims of rape, since the majority of rape victims are males

 

That's fine, as long as 'more of a problem' = 'happens more often.' But where I can't go along with you is in the broader context of your claims that there is not a wage gap and, implicitly, that women are systematically disempowered or disenfranchised in the workplace. You might not be meaning to say that 'more men raped than women' implies 'men are in a worse social position than women,' but your making both arguments together suggests you think they go together, which maybe one thing people are resisting so strongly here (since they have nothing to do with each other).

 

What are these broader implications?

 

If anything men are being disenfranchised from the work force with the high potential for sexual harassment charges being enforced upon men

 

Women entered a male dominated environment of those careers and forced men to change the way they are to suit their needs, rather than women themselves changing to fit the environment.

 

why is it male dominated to begin with ? because women choose to be poorer and less self sufficient than men ? it's true that many women can be content with their position but those who aren't are facing serious obstacles, that's the main problem i think.

and what unreasonable change are women forcing exactly, the plead to not sexually harass them ?

 

Because men have always been forcefully placed into the role of provider

 

Women are born with innate value because of their uteri.

Men have to prove their value through their accomplishments.

 

Hence areas where personal dedication and working towards accomplishments is present, men dominate

 

But you're forgetting how disadvantaged a woman is if she's unattractive. In that case I'd say they have to work significantly harder than men to prove their value to most of society. Even then they're most-likely going to be critiqued more on their looks than their credentials. This is obviously a problem for men also but it would be ridiculous to claim that it's to the same extent.

If anything the problem you raised here is men's fault for valuing a female simply because of her level of attractiveness.

Anyway I really don't want to get sucked into this argument so I probably won't be posting anymore. 'Just thought it was important to raise this point.