Woolwich attack

Interesting article on BBC News website written by a Muslim (Dr Usama Hasan) in relation to fundamentalists... Seems like it might be the honest article compson et al have been looking for...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22640614

Quote:

The following may be regarded as the major components of Islamism: Umma, Khilafa, Sharia and Jihad - all of which have become excessively politicised.

Umma (nation) translates for Islamists into an obsession with the "Muslim people" and its imagined suffering worldwide (the blessings are never counted, only the problems) that in turn becomes a firmly entrenched victimhood and perpetual sense of grievance.

Conflicts involving Muslims with others are continually cited - Palestine, Kashmir, Afghanistan and Iraq - while ignoring savage internecine Muslim conflicts, such as the Iran-Iraq war or the current wars in Darfur and Syria, or the appalling persecution of Christians in many Muslim-majority countries such as Egypt, Iran and Pakistan.

Khilafa (caliphate) for Islamists is the idea that they are duty bound to establish "Islamic states" - described by vague, theoretical, idealistic platitudes - that would then be united in a global, pan-Islamic state or "new caliphate".

Sharia (law) for Islamists is the idea that they are duty-bound to implement and enforce medieval Islamic jurisprudence in their modern "Islamic state".

Hence the obsession with enforcing the veiling of women, discriminating against women and non-Muslims and implementing penal codes that include amputations, floggings, beheadings and stonings to death, all seen as a sacred, God-given duty that cannot be changed.

Jihad (sacred struggle) for Islamists is an obsession with violence, whether of a military, paramilitary or terrorist nature. Their Jihad aims to protect and expand the Islamic state. Extremists even dream of conquering the whole world for Islamism by militarily defeating the US, Europe, Israel, India, China and Russia."

once again, how do you propose to do deal with it?

I should have brought it up in the old thread with compson (though I doubt he'd acknowledge it), that people like Sam Harris literally advocate a culture war against Islam (seriously, read End of Faith if you don't believe me).

If anyone thinks this will destroy Islamic extremists, they are woefully misinformed about how the world works.

Have absolutely no idea how you can realistically "deal" with the Islamic extremism problem. I don't think there is any one way... Fighting them is probably as good as anything else I suppose... Let's face it, if there was some strange incident and every Muslim on the planet disappeared overnight, the world would probably be a much more peaceful place... Like it or not, it's probably true.

  On 5/24/2013 at 5:08 PM, BCM said:

Have absolutely no idea how you can realistically "deal" with the Islamic extremism problem. I don't think there is any one way... Fighting them is probably as good as anything else I suppose... Let's face it, if there was some strange incident and every Muslim on the planet disappeared overnight, the world would probably be a much more peaceful place... Like it or not, it's probably true.

id argue the same for Christians, Jews, or any other follower of the monotheistic religions.

lol B, Lain C's going to love that comment.

Yeah, I'm sure he will... I'm not trying to be controversial or anything though. We don't live in an ideal world unfortunately and if the Islamic faith did suddenly cease to exist, then it would likely sort out lots of problems... Not saying that it's right things are this way. And I don't feel you can say the same about Christianity or Hinduism or whatever... Unfortunately, Islam does appear to be "the problem". OK, in reality it's human beings that are the real problem, but you can't just like, kill everybody in the whole world or something... I think in the long run, for a peaceful world, Islam will have to go the way of the dodo. Might not be "right" or whatever, but then neither is much else about planet earth.

imo western imperialism is quite obviously a much more murderous and oppressive problem than "islam."

aye, i just meant a slight addendum might stop him biting your baws...

  On 5/24/2013 at 5:08 PM, BCM said:

if there was some strange incident and every Muslim EXTREMIST on the planet disappeared overnight, the world would probably be a much more peaceful place... Like it or not, it's probably true.

No, I mean every Muslim, full stop. I'm not saying that is what I personally want, but I am saying it would sort things right out (and lower the population of the planet massively too, which really needs doing). Sorry Ian, I'm not a Nazi, honest.

Some drivers are aggressive, dangerous and shouldn't be on the road. But I don't think you should ban cars because of this. It's always the vocal, shitty minority that make the majority look bad.

BCM you are a fool and your insinuations are grotesque.

oh right. can we just make it every religious person then?

tbh i consider BCM to be so idm that at this point I'd rather just high five and backflip outta this thread than get into some compson brawl.

*sup glasses*

*backflips*

  On 5/24/2013 at 5:08 PM, BCM said:

Have absolutely no idea how you can realistically "deal" with the Islamic extremism problem. I don't think there is any one way... Fighting them is probably as good as anything else I suppose... Let's face it, if there was some strange incident and every Muslim on the planet disappeared overnight, the world would probably be a much more peaceful place... Like it or not, it's probably true.

You know what? Fuck off.

  On 5/24/2013 at 5:19 PM, BCM said:

Yeah, I'm sure he will... I'm not trying to be controversial or anything though. We don't live in an ideal world unfortunately and if the Islamic faith did suddenly cease to exist, then it would likely sort out lots of problems... Not saying that it's right things are this way. And I don't feel you can say the same about Christianity or Hinduism or whatever... Unfortunately, Islam does appear to be "the problem". OK, in reality it's human beings that are the real problem, but you can't just like, kill everybody in the whole world or something... I think in the long run, for a peaceful world, Islam will have to go the way of the dodo. Might not be "right" or whatever, but then neither is much else about planet earth.

  On 5/24/2013 at 5:27 PM, keltoi said:

 

aye, i just meant a slight addendum might stop him biting your baws...

 

  On 5/24/2013 at 5:08 PM, BCM said:

if there was some strange incident and every Muslim EXTREMIST on the planet disappeared overnight, the world would probably be a much more peaceful place... Like it or not, it's probably true.

 

if that was the real quote, I would obviously agree with him. But unfortunately it wasn't.

  On 5/24/2013 at 5:31 PM, BCM said:

No, I mean every Muslim, full stop. I'm not saying that is what I personally want, but I am saying it would sort things right out (and lower the population of the planet massively too, which really needs doing). Sorry Ian, I'm not a Nazi, honest.

You're talking about my family you utter cunt.

I'm out of this thread, I'm irate.

I still fail to see how these assumptions aren't subtly imperialistic though; why Muslims in particular? The most I ever hear about is the old chestnut that Islamic extremism is quantitatively more common or quantitatively more "extreme", which are such utterly absurd statements that those making them should not be allowed to participate in government.

seems pretty reasonable to entertain the idea of killing 100% of muslims worldwide amirite

i think bcm is pretty idm too (they both have 3 very cool letters) but that is some dumbass hateful shit

Jesus Christ does anybody actually read anything? I know that it's not fair and I understand and agree with your analogy about drivers. What I was postulating was more of a though experiment about what would happen to the world if, for some inexplicable reason, every Muslim on earth suddenly disappeared. Why are some people always so bloody eager to show how compassionate and free-thinking they are? I wasn't questioning any of that... I'm sure you're all lovely and peaceful and just want a quiet life. So do I...

  On 5/24/2013 at 5:36 PM, Iain C said:

  On 5/24/2013 at 5:31 PM, BCM said:

 

 

No, I mean every Muslim, full stop. I'm not saying that is what I personally want, but I am saying it would sort things right out (and lower the population of the planet massively too, which really needs doing). Sorry Ian, I'm not a Nazi, honest.

 

 

 

You're talking about my family you utter cunt. 

 

I'm out of this thread, I'm irate. 

 

Yeah you really don't want to call me that mate. Not advisable at all. Please re-read what I wrote and reconsider your reactionary nonsense.

My reactionary nonsense? I've PM'd you, I'm not doing this here.

I'll also just state, once more, for the record, that nowhere have I said anything about killing Muslims.

Mate, you're extremely reactionary... Your posts in this thread demonstrate that very well. Dispense with the defensiveness and try and have an open discussion.... I wouldn't be remotely annoyed if someone said, for example "imagine what would happen to the world if everybody with a West Midlands heritage suddenly disappeared from planet earth"... (which would directly relate to me and my family)... Because it's just a question... Nobody is saying that's what should happen!

I know what you're saying BCM. What I was saying was a counter to that, because for every instinctive feeling I get (and I get them a lot) like "If this fucking prick just died things would be much better", I have to try and pull myself out of that thought process and think of the bigger picture. It's not a matter of proving that I'm compassionate and free-thinking, it's just BEING compassionate. Because it's thought like that which causes the problems in the first place. I think emotion needs to be take out of the equation when it comes to situations like this, because it usually leads down the wrong route.

Unfortunately it's so easy for people to be all "If the Muslims were gone then things would be better", and perhaps it's a nice fantasy "what if?" scenario. But it's a scenario that less intelligent and thoughtful people take to violent extremes. My point is that it's a toxic thought process that doesn't really contribute to anything... except making Iain mad. Haha

Yeah but there weren't 100-odd fascists in balaclavas less than half a mile down the road from your front door clamouring for West Mids people to be expelled from the country (at best) the other night, were there?

I also think it's interesting that the people who are the most (for want of a better phrase) "liberal thinking" in this thread, are the people being most aggressive and effing and blinding all over the place... You do yourselves a disservice.