Syria's Assad used chemical weapons on his own people

'Signatures of Sarin' most IDM 2013.

  On 9/4/2013 at 4:02 AM, LimpyLoo said:

 

  On 9/4/2013 at 3:56 AM, very honest said:

And the killing is being done by Assad by and large, he's been shelling the shit out of them for years.

 

Yeah just keep in mind that when we punish dictators with strikes we tend to kill tens of thousands of civilians.

 

rag-heads don't count as civilians bro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvrJzkzaG7E

I don't understand why most people on this planet aren't prescribed xanax. It's a horror knowing what this world is about.

but what part of not just killing people with explosive 50mm rounds but turning people into puddles of gore do you not consider humanitarianism?


I'll take 10mg of xanax with my COD4 game disc please

Would you rather we do nothing?

yes i forgot, that there is a binary logic to the world, so yes we should do something

Nothing? No, we'll just live in a antidepressants/psychopharmaceutical generated dream. Living on the chemicals of " I don't give a Sh*t".

Edit: singing kumbaja and peace for all.

ok its settled then. we blow up some shit to make the world safer from shit blowing up.

But but...there are some many somethings.....

We could use an air plane and provide the syrians with free weed. If that won't pacify the situation.... Heck, we'll put the entire region on weed. Problem solved!

  On 9/5/2013 at 12:30 AM, goDel said:

Nothing? No, we'll just live in a antidepressants/psychopharmaceutical generated dream. Living on the chemicals of " I don't give a Sh*t".

 

Edit: singing kumbaja and peace for all.

Hold on now, I was just referring to how the human stress/anxiety response is not designed to withstand all of the stimuli of the universe. I wasn't talking about some pharma-zombie state where nobody feels their feelings. I was just hinting at the fact that I have panic attacks about dentist appointments and lines at the grocery store. And no human has the capacity to grasp the magnitude of it all. If everything that could hit you actually hit you, you would not leave your room, you'd simply sit there and shiver and grieve for the world.

some humanitarians just want to watch the world burn

I just wanted to chime in here - while I don't support unilateral military action in Syria - that battle deaths have decreased dramatically over the years.

http://www.hsrgroup.org/docs/Publications/miniAtlas/miniAtlas_en_part3.pdf

Just saying.

And no I'm not strictly a pacifist, I am able to see war etc in light of the Trolley Problem.

Yes morality is complicated, and yes there are actual enemies of civilization, but I watched the Shock and Awe campaign unfold in real time. And it was like watching New York City get bombed. It was a city full of regular people. What the fuck is that? Explain that to me, and then explain to me why we should do it again?

[bTW, Saddam Hussein was not killed during the Shock and Awe campaign, but tens of thousands of civilians were]

Limpy - I dunno where you're getting your numbers from - but it was not tens of thousands during the Shock and Awe campaign.

Here's a neat interactive site:

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/2011/

Yeah your figures might be right, Chen. I dunno.

But regardless, even with more conservative numbers, I don't know if that changes anything for me.

If someone did this to America, to New York City, everyone would think the attacking country was a bunch of genocidal maniacs. And rightly so.

Yeah I reiterate - i'm not in favour of any sort of unilateral action, but I don't believe using hyperbole serves any purpose.

so you are in favor of doing absolutely nothing, letting innocent children continue dying, and preventing the betterment of our civilization.

got it.

  On 9/5/2013 at 1:53 AM, chenGOD said:

Yeah I reiterate - i'm not in favour of any sort of unilateral action, but I don't believe using hyperbole serves any purpose.

The hyperbole definitely wasn't intentional. I just have a terrible memory.

A really interesting view on the war comes from this blog called Baghdad Burning. It's a really fascinating read.

without using hyperbole at all, the Iraq war was/is very disturbing not just because of how many people died but the sadism displayed and documented by members of the armed forces both sanctioned and not. There are over 2,000 pictures of american soldiers sexually humiliating and sexually assaulting Iraqi prisoners, most of whom were completely innocent and taken in the initial 'any man of fighting age' raids. This included soldiers shoving objects up prisoner's rectums, and this is all before the CIA interrogated and water boarded these people, many of whom died from beatings after being released from CIA custody

Besides maybe getting a number wrong, i don't see anything Limpy said as hyperbole. If the shock and awe happened to us or anyone we cared about, we'd see the people who did it as lunatic murderers. That's pretty cut and dry. I don't think there is anything wrong with the micro and more nuanced approach to looking at these wars, but at the same time there is no point to candy coat the language either, it is what it is.

  On 9/5/2013 at 5:16 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

without using hyperbole at all, the Iraq war was/is very disturbing not just because of how many people died but the sadism displayed and documented by members of the armed forces both sanctioned and not. There are over 2,000 pictures of american soldiers sexually humiliating and assaulting Iraqi prisoners, most of whom were completely innocent and taken in the initial 'any man of fighting age' raids.

 

Besides maybe getting a number wrong, i don't see anything Limpy said as hyperbole. If the shock and awe happened to us or anyone we cared about, we'd see the people who did it as lunatic murderers. That's pretty cut and dry

I don't disagree with any of that.

But it's also quite disturbing that militias in Iraq have killed many more civilians than US led forces since 2005. The comparative total deaths are relatively similar. That's why I think the use of hyperbole numerically is not particularly conducive to valuable discussion. I'm much more interested in issues such as Abu Gharib.

  On 9/5/2013 at 5:34 AM, chenGOD said:

 

  On 9/5/2013 at 5:16 AM, John Ehrlichman said:

without using hyperbole at all, the Iraq war was/is very disturbing not just because of how many people died but the sadism displayed and documented by members of the armed forces both sanctioned and not. There are over 2,000 pictures of american soldiers sexually humiliating and assaulting Iraqi prisoners, most of whom were completely innocent and taken in the initial 'any man of fighting age' raids.

 

Besides maybe getting a number wrong, i don't see anything Limpy said as hyperbole. If the shock and awe happened to us or anyone we cared about, we'd see the people who did it as lunatic murderers. That's pretty cut and dry

 

I don't disagree with any of that.

But it's also quite disturbing that militias in Iraq have killed many more civilians than US led forces since 2005. The comparative total deaths are relatively similar. That's why I think the use of hyperbole numerically is not particularly conducive to valuable discussion. I'm much more interested in issues such as Abu Gharib.

 

Once again, it wasn't intentional.

But anyway, there are alternatives to strikes. For years I've been hearing about all these precision weapons. During the Iraq war CNN et all used to do (shamelessly pro-war) segments about how advanced our weapons are. So let's see that shit walk the walk.

there are no good guys right? action or inaction is equally bad. so might as well not get involved

Equally bad? How so? Why equal?

:-p

  On 9/5/2013 at 7:59 AM, marf said:

there are no good guys right? action or inaction is equally bad. so might as well not get involved

Well think of it this way (as literally every human being should think about everything all the time): if you were living in a country led by a crazy dictator, would you want another country to bomb your city and kill you and everyone you love?

And if not, why?